Any word on an analog joystick?

[J_K_M_A_N]

What are people using for games like Sinistar? I would like a joystick for that game that has a handle like a super or something like that. Anyone have a clue? I haven't seen it discussed for a while. I have seen the one (sorry, can't remember who's) that someone made with bike tire tubes. That is a little over my head. Please let me know if I am missing one. Thanks.

J_K_M_A_N

[SirPoonga]

well, other than hacking an arcade handle onto a PC joystick or buying the expensive happs not much you can do.


Games in mame that use use an analog joystick are labeled as stick for controls, right?


jkman, alsot to note, urebel and I added analog support to pigskin and archrivals to simulate the 49way.  Check out analog mame.

[Xiaou2]

http://www.xiaou2.homestead.com/sinijoy.html

  Thats the one : )


   Any normal analog will work with it... its just that the game is so sensative,  that you cant stay moving at slow speeds with a nomal analog.

  The addition of bands keep it hard to move the stick... thus you can control your speed very accurately.

  The only other thing that someone could possibly do is to hack the controls so that the input from the analog stick was changed.

  Theyd have to make a formula that lowered the acceleration values to be more powerfull 'Only' at the very 'edges' of the stick.

 

 


 www.xiaou2.homestead.com

[u_rebelscum]

  Any normal analog will work with it... its just that the game is so sensative,  that you cant stay moving at slow speeds with a nomal analog.

  The addition of bands keep it hard to move the stick... thus you can control your speed very accurately.

  The only other thing that someone could possibly do is to hack the controls so that the input from the analog stick was changed.

  Theyd have to make a formula that lowered the acceleration values to be more powerfull 'Only' at the very 'edges' of the stick.

Doesn't the sensitivity setting help here?  Setting it to a lower number and stuff?

[J_K_M_A_N]

Well, maybe when I win the lottery I will buy the ANALOG JOYSTICK WITH ULTIMATE HANDLE from happs. $118 is a little steep for now. Plus I would have to buy the optional pc pot increaser. That is probably only $99. Thanks guys.

J_K_M_A_N

[Minwah]

I am in a similar situation.  Analog sticks don't come up on UK Ebay EVER!  I'm not keen on using a PC stick on my panel (I just broke one without too much ease), and I like the Happ trigger style analog - nearly 200 bucks though if IIRC

[Xiaou2]

Doesn't the sensitivity setting help here?  Setting it to a lower
number?

   No... because then it cant achieve maximum speeds... and thus you either go too slow, or too fast.

   The game is made in such a way that the stick is so sensative, even a millimeter movment will gain you a good deal of speed.  It uses a very tight centering system... so its like a brake pedel rather than a gas peddel...   so it makes it easier to make micro adjustments to your speeds and still control it with the accuracy of a  ballet dancer.


   Think of it like driving a motorcycle that had the ability to go from 0 to 800 mph in 2 seconds!   With a normal throttle... just a small turn of the throtle could land you in the hospital... as youd  probably take off at about 200mph on accident.

     But by modifying the throttle, and adding a super strong resistence spring system... youll stand a chance, as its Very hard to move the throttle even a millimeter.  
       

     Its a brilliant design... because it allows for incredible acceleration speed... yet, superior control at any speed.


   So heres the thought...

  If the speed values were like this:

800                                            400                                                0

(max left)                                                                   (joystick center)


Youd change mame so that the analog input would be more like this:


800400200    100                        50               20              10           0


   Something like this.   Where as the higher values are only achieved near the far end of the spectrum.

  That way, you keep good control over low speeds till ammost the very ends of the stick... and at the very ends, you can achieve the super warp speeds.

  Surely this still wont be as good as a true resistence solution... but it should at least make it playable for a normal analog.

  Anyone whos ever played with the real deal knows how much better the feel than a typical analog controller.   I think all analogs should be made like the sinistar design.




 

[u_rebelscum]

Doesn't the sensitivity setting help here?  Setting it to a lower
number?

   No... because then it cant achieve maximum speeds... and thus you either go too slow, or too fast.

D'oh.  Smacks self on head.  I (shoulda) knew that.

So heres the thought...
Youd change mame so that the analog input would be more like this:

800400200    100                        50               20              10           0


   Something like this.   Where as the higher values are only achieved near the far end of the spectrum.

  That way, you keep good control over low speeds till ammost the very ends of the stick... and at the very ends, you can achieve the super warp speeds.

  Anyone whos ever played with the real deal knows how much better the feel than a typical analog controller.   I think all analogs should be made like the sinistar design.

49way games only have three levels in each direction (+ center for seven values per axis, two axes, so 7 * 7 = 49 total combinations). I bet it's just that mame isn't translating the analog data it gets to the 3 values at the same angles the original 49ways did.  Sinistar's ROMs is doing the translation of the 3 values to the super speed, etc.

My guess is the original was something like this:
max left                                              center
   3              2                           1               0

while mame translates something like this (with your stick settings)
max left                                              center
        3                2                1                0

BTW, have you tried to adjust (if you're using windows mame) the stick's "accel curve" using the stick's driver?  Some drivers let you do that; I know gravis drivers do, to some degree.  Also, it helps to have a dead zone small enough so mame isn't given joystick values that cause mame to skip the first level and jump to "2".  Changing both these settings might move the values closer to the original positions on your stick.  Of course, this varies from stick to stick and driver to driver.

[Howard_Casto]

I have a rather odd and flimsy solution.....  

A n64 controller has a very light, yet very sensitive optical joystick in the middle.  I'ved tried it with the 49 way hack and it works brilliantly..... Perhaps you could remove the optical detectors inside the n64 controller's pcb (they just plug into ports) and replace them with larger optical pcbs found in arcade optical sticks?  Of course you also need a n64 to usb adaptor, but those are fairly cheap and you get the added benefit of rumble support.  

[johnpurs]

I have a rather odd and flimsy solution.....  
A n64 controller has a very light, yet very sensitive optical joystick in the middle.  I'ved tried it with the 49 way hack and it works brilliantly.....

What hack?  that schematic at http://www.arcadecollecting.com/info/49way_to_Hall.gif or some other hack. I have some 49 ways and would love to get them working I just don't really understand this schematic is there someone that could translate this.  I have the parts to build it I just have a problem reading it properly. ALso has anyone did this hack nad then hooked it to a PC via the gameport  like a star wars hack. Any info would be appreciated.

[SirPoonga]

again, that's 49way to hall effect joystick, not 49way to something the pc can see.

[johnpurs]

again, that's 49way to hall effect joystick, not 49way to something the pc can see.

If I am reading this schematic right it seems the information is being sent from the the 49 way throught the circuit and the circuit is putting out X  Y  VCC and GROUND

Couldn't this be input to a joystic port or am I really not understanding how this thing works.

[Lilwolf]

BTW, it would be an easy hack to create.  Everything is pretty straight forward.

you know the ranges of a 100k pot... The curcuiit would be pretty easy to make...  

But I dont' have the time or the joystick to do it.  I will get out my old electronic textbook and see about creating a circuit to do it.  

[PoDunkMoFo]

again, that's 49way to hall effect joystick, not 49way to something the pc can see.

I thought Hall effect sensors were basically pots minus mechanical wear.  In  other words you can by Hall effect sensors that would return the same values when rotated as a potentiometer.  Would that not be something a pc could see?

[u_rebelscum]

again, that's 49way to hall effect joystick, not 49way to something the pc can see.

I thought Hall effect sensors were basically pots minus mechanical wear.  In  other words you can by Hall effect sensors that would return the same values when rotated as a potentiometer.  Would that not be something a pc could see?

You're right that Hall Effect sensors are pots with magnetically variable resistors instead of machanically variable resistors.  So as long as the Hall Effect resistance range is similar to whatever you're hacking it to, no problems.