cab covering opinion

[SS427]

Ok, I know this has probably been discussed over and over, but I have finished cutting out the pieces for my cabinet and I am trying to decide about what to use to cover it with.  The main options I was looking at were 1) laminate, 2) wood stain (wood look or colored stain), 3)  painting (lots to choose from here).  What would your choice be if you were starting a new cabinet?  What are the pros and cons for which covering you used?

Thanks

SS427

[Wienerdog]

You made your cab already, it depends on the wood you used.  Let us know, and we will let you know...

[Frostillicus]

Ok, I know this has probably been discussed over and over, but I have finished cutting out the pieces for my cabinet and I am trying to decide about what to use to cover it with.  The main options I was looking at were 1) laminate, 2) wood stain (wood look or colored stain), 3)  painting (lots to choose from here).  What would your choice be if you were starting a new cabinet?  What are the pros and cons for which covering you used?

Thanks

SS427

I say painting - if you work it you will get the best finsih.  use a good sanding sealer to seal the grain and a high gloss black and it will look like excellent.

[Xphile]

you will get as many different opinions as there are people here...:-)

that said, if I had the money, I'd go Black Laminate.. easy to clean, no worries about minor scratches and dings like a painted surface,  I suppose these things could be said about painted as well, but the biggie for me (if you used ply instead of MDF) is -no worrying about cracking when your ply expands or shrinks (it may adjust to it's new location in your house -  whether it's warmer and less humid than in the lumber yard you bought it, or the garage where you made it..it may shrink or expand enough to cause minor cracking to appear through the paint)

It's a serious pain in the ass to really hide grain well even on sanded high quality ply.  I made a couple side pieces to replace the damaged ones on my space harrier and I must've sprayed 6 coats of primer over a week and a half (high quality stuff we use at work) filling and sanding between coats before I was really satisfied it was glass perfect (even on the edge grain:-) . got them home, applied them, and 1.5 months later a couple fine cracks began to appear on each side running with the grain...totally pissed me off. I was gonna leave them gloss white, but I have to find some kind of signmaking sheet vinyl to made replactment artwork now..

 I dunno if it's normal, but with laminate you don't have to risk it..

[SS427]

I am using a pre-sanded plywood which I have sanded down further to get a smoother finish.  One of the paints we looked at tonight was a black with a slight texture to it, I think it was called "hammered".  I haven't checked at home depot yet, but the local Lowes doesn't have regular black laminate (might get it special order).

Thanks for the replies (hadn't thought about the paint cracking, since it is in the garage and I'll be bringing inside).

SS427

[Wienerdog]

You should talk to SirPonga then.  He used the Rustoleum hammered metal gray, and can probably tell us how it is holding up.  Until he finds this thread, here is a link to his finished pictures:
http://free.hostdepartment.com/S/SirPoonga/finished.html

Here is a link to his closeup of the paint:
http://free.hostdepartment.com/S/SirPoonga/images/y_mon1.jpg  

I think you should use the black hammered.  Why?  Because I want to see how it looks before I paint my cab...

[Wienerdog]

Sorry, I'm not allowed to link to that picture.  The closeup is under the construction link on his site.

[SNAAAKE]

I would say laminate..i mean nothing beats the looks you see.

look how shiny this is


you dont have to worry about scratch like when you use paint,less work and the main point is you get a better look with laminate..maybe plain black if you want..they are cheap..i could get em $14 each(4x8).

IF you can do something like frosty then yes,paint is very nice..its all about how much you know/can do  and stuff.

[Xphile]

<snip>Thanks for the replies (hadn't thought about the paint cracking, since it is in the garage and I'll be bringing inside).

SS427

just another thought...it'll probably be different results depending on where you live, how long the material's been in your home etc.. for normal orders at work we have oak and maple ply that sits in our dry/heated shop for sometimes months before use and it's stained to show grain, not painted to hide it - so it's never been a problem.

 when I needed ply for my space harrier, I ran down to HD and got some (home depot here is quite humid..big roll up doors are usually open near construction materials section, and I live on the Wet Coast..:-), brought it back to work the next day and started ...since parts of both sides are visble I primed both sides after cutting, didn't give the wood time to breathe or acclimatize to a dryer enviroment..  so your mileage may vary..:-)

[Nervous]

For the quality of the finish, and the savings in time and effort, I'd say laminate is well worth the money.
You'll of course need a router though...

[SNAAAKE]

For the quality of the finish, and the savings in time and effort, I'd say laminate is well worth the money.
You'll of course need a router though...

Everything in my cab is done without a router..i did the t-molding slots with a dremel.And cut laminate with plexi glass cutter..score it couple of times and snap..works great(its cheap solution for me)

[Frostillicus]

It's a serious pain in the ass to really hide grain well even on sanded high quality ply.  I made a couple side pieces to replace the damaged ones on my space harrier and I must've sprayed 6 coats of primer over a week and a half (high quality stuff we use at work) filling and sanding between coats before I was really satisfied it was glass perfect (even on the edge grain:-) . got them home, applied them, and 1.5 months later a couple fine cracks began to appear on each side running with the grain...totally pissed me off. I was gonna leave them gloss white, but I have to find some kind of signmaking sheet vinyl to made replactment artwork now..

 I dunno if it's normal, but with laminate you don't have to risk it..

Actually that's not normal if you do it right - look at the finish on the cab i made(link under avatar) .  
It's very simple - if you go with wood and do not want the grain to show at all, ever, then follow these few steps:
-Get "Sanding Sealer" from woodworking store
-brush it on 2-3 coats of it, sanding very lightly between coats with fine sandpaper to remove the rough spots.    This should only take about 1 days of drying per coat in the current northern weather.
-find a nice wide, fine finishing roller for painting, and roll on some paint.  I used 2 coats I think.  
I used a high gloss black and it's highly reflective with no polishing but with a slight texture left over from the roll on brush.  I prefer that to a plastic looking covering like laminate.

But speaking of laminate - snaaake where did you get yours for that cheap, is it a national store like Home depot or a local place in NY?

[SNAAAKE]

But speaking of laminate - snaaake where did you get yours for that cheap, is it a national store like Home depot or a local place in NY?

What i meant was the plain black laminate cost $14 per 4x8 sheets..the wood looking onces cost like $60 a pop .
the one i used..just black didnt look right.
its a laminate place where all they sell is laminate..there was like 1000 designs to choose from .
They have the black onces for only $14 while home depot sells  the exact same thing for $46 a sheet (thats my local).

[Xphile]

I dunno if it's normal, but with laminate you don't have to risk it..

Actually that's not normal if you do it right - look at the finish on the cab i made(link under avatar) .  

I was talking about the hairline cracks not being normal, not the grain.., the grain wasn't showing after the second primer...it was the edge grain that I put the rest of the coats on for..didn't wanna use t-mold :-)..turned out great except for the cracks...I'll take a pic and edit with it in a bit..

<edit>
thumbnail:



Really hard to get a good picture of these, but about 2 inches to the left of the blue lines (Crack is running vertical) is one of them (of two on this side).. the paint itself hasn't cracked, it's the top layer of ply underneath that's cracked.


full size (33kb) here:
http://members.shaw.ca/space_harrier/sh.jpg

[spidermonkey]

A $32.00 difference   That doesn't sound right to me.  That can't possibly be the same stuff. I know for a fact that Home Depot doesn't make as much of a profit on an item as you would think. They profit from selling sheer quantity. I install overhead doors for a living and I happen to know that they only make  $1.00 yeh thats right 1 measely doller on each standard size garage door they sell. They practiclly cut their own throat on the sale just to keep you from buying the door from somebody else because they know that chances are you will buy other stuff while you're there. So I find it hard to believe that they would be THAT much higher then another retailer that is most likely smaller then them. With markup percentages like that nobody would buy from them. I could be wrong  but $14.00 for a whole sheet of laminate sounds unrealistic to me. If I am wrong then by all means post the store or manufacturer that sells it for that cheap. I'll be stocking up on it.

[SNAAAKE]

its like a laminate whole sale place spidemonkey...

I am telling you..its the exact same thing.First when i heard i was like "WTF "...wow.

So i didnt believe the lady because i called first then i decided to take the train and take a look..it was exact same regular black laminate then i bought some and i carried 2 4x8 sheets laminate home..dont have a car so i just had to carry it around like that..they do roll it for you though.in a box.
Here is the # if anyone was interested...

First Wood & Laminates Inc  
16 Eckford St, Brooklyn, NY 11222
Phone: (718) 218-7800

[eightbit]

Its possible and easy to believe that there could be that much of a price difference.

I work for a retailer I know Walmart sells items for less than what we can buy them for sometimes.

[Frostillicus]

I dunno if it's normal, but with laminate you don't have to risk it..

Actually that's not normal if you do it right - look at the finish on the cab i made(link under avatar) .  

I was talking about the hairline cracks not being normal, not the grain.., the grain wasn't showing after the second primer...it was the edge grain that I put the rest of the coats on for..didn't wanna use t-mold :-)..turned out great except for the cracks...I'll take a pic and edit with it in a bit..

<edit>
thumbnail:



Really hard to get a good picture of these, but about 2 inches to the left of the blue lines (Crack is running vertical) is one of them (of two on this side).. the paint itself hasn't cracked, it's the top layer of ply underneath that's cracked.


full size (33kb) here:
http://members.shaw.ca/space_harrier/sh.jpg

hmm..I can't really make out the cracks, but I'll take your word for it.  You prob used low-grade plywood to begin with, or it wasn't completely dry when you painted it.  I'd recommend some good hardwood plywood - not cabinet grade, that's just too $$$.  But other than that - if you seal wood correctly it shouldn't crack.    And as long as it's completely dry when you make build it, it should not crack either.  It may feel dry, but on the inside layers it could still have moisture.  That causes the cracking - the ends dry faster than the middle and they split.  Especially in rapidly changing enviroment, like moving it from cold garage to hot and dry basement, for example.

[Xphile]

Frostillicus:

re-read the 2nd and 3rd paragraphs of my first post in this thread (that would be post #4 from the top).

I'm a woodworker by trade..I just don't like posting some 'absolutes' - ie: "The ply dried out and cracked because it had a high moisture content from sitting next to the roll up door at home depot and I was in too much of a hurry to get it done to do the right thing and let it dry first"...that makes me look stupid, (the fact that I was <or just sloppy) is irrelevent, I just don't want to Look that way.. )

[Distortion]

Everything in my cab is done without a router..i did the t-molding slots with a dremel.And cut laminate with plexi glass cutter..score it couple of times and snap..works great(its cheap solution for me)

I don't have a router, but I do have a dremel tool...haven't used it in some time now.  How would I go about doing t-molding with it, and would I be better (straighter) to try and track someone down and borrow a real router for the t-molding?

[SNAAAKE]

Everything in my cab is done without a router..i did the t-molding slots with a dremel.And cut laminate with plexi glass cutter..score it couple of times and snap..works great(its cheap solution for me)

I don't have a router, but I do have a dremel tool...haven't used it in some time now.  How would I go about doing t-molding with it, and would I be better (straighter) to try and track someone down and borrow a real router for the t-molding?

Did you ever visit the "BEAM" project?

The guy explains..its a pain in the arsh if you wanna do the whole cabinet though .
http://www.geocities.com/brian_coney/maincabinetpage.html
You could be very evil and buy a router from home depot and as soon as you are done you can just go back and return it..you have 90 days..this opition is only if you are REALLY poor and stuff.(I did this when i was 15 and i had to money no buy a jigsaw).
Nothing wrong with being honest right?
Atleast I am not lying.

PS:dont the beam cab look little similer to mine?(I know the "BEAM" cab looks a WHOLE LOT better but still)

[Frostillicus]

Frostillicus:

re-read the 2nd and 3rd paragraphs of my first post in this thread (that would be post #4 from the top).

I'm a woodworker by trade..I just don't like posting some 'absolutes' - ie: "The ply dried out and cracked because it had a high moisture content from sitting next to the roll up door at home depot and I was in too much of a hurry to get it done to do the right thing and let it dry first"...that makes me look stupid, (the fact that I was <or just sloppy) is irrelevent, I just don't want to Look that way.. )

I don't want people to get the wrong idea about building/painting with wood- your example is not the norm and might turn people off of painting it instead of laminating.

Laminate looks good, but it looks kind of 'kmart' to me (like a screw-together desk or something).  That is personal opinion.

What does your shop do if a customer wants a piece painted and not stained?  Don't you use something like Kwik Sand to seal the grain?

[rampy]

I don't want people to get the wrong idea about building/painting with wood- your example is not the norm and might turn people off of painting it instead of laminating.

Laminate looks good, but it looks kind of 'kmart' to me (like a screw-together desk or something).  That is personal opinion.

What does your shop do if a customer wants a piece painted and not stained?  Don't you use something like Kwik Sand to seal the grain?

Hey frosty,

are you mixing up melamine with laminate? I can see how faux-woodgrain laminate would look k-mart  furniture-esque... but wouldn't black laminate just look authentic?

Of course I have a painted cab and am happy with it (i even removed the crackling ancient laminate to paint it black - cue the stones song)

Not that one couldn't paint plywood... but I'd think you'd have an easier time with mdf for painting... and use lower grade plywood and laminate... or go nutz with the sanding sealer =P (or embrace the woodgrain)

*shrug* wtf do I know?
rampy

[Xphile]

What does your shop do if a customer wants a piece painted and not stained?  Don't you use something like Kwik Sand to seal the grain?

(edited cause I had to take the kids to a dance, and didn't have time to type everything..:-)

i'm not the finisher, but if they want it painted, we build it, 180 it, Then I believe it gets primer white first to seal the grain, sanded with 320 after by the finisher - "don't sand through the primer whatever you do!" were the wise words spoken to me many years ago the first time I had to sand primer...(I'd hate to be a finisher, their job *sucks*:-) and catalysing enamel paint for the top coats.

the primer shows grain just fine with one coat, that's why I had to use so many coats, (trowelled <literally> on the celoset (pretroleum based wood filler) first, too..sanded with 120,150,180, primed, filled, 320, primed,320, primed,etc,etc..:-)

sorry,I ramble, what was the question again? :-)