49-way Question(s)...

[Quarterhorse]

Again, thanks for everybody's advice / help in this forum.  My cocktail project is continuing to evolve....I'm not content with just the two vertical sides and am looking to add a third control panel on the horizontal (coin door) side of the monitor.  Thus, I'd have two vertical control panels (one joystick each) and two joysticks (for robotron and simultaneous play) and a trackball on the horizontal side.  The most adaptable joystick for me seems to be the 49 ways.  Here come the questions:

(1) can I have TWO player one controls hooked up?  e.g. I want player one on the left side of the table vertically and also on the left side of the horizontal control panel (and 2 player 2's)....not sure if I can do this with using the GP-wiz and usb inputs

(2)  are there other ball top handles that will fit the 49-way besides the ones by Randy T?  Any other interfaces besides the GP-Wiz?  When are the "new" 49 way joys coming out (see groovygamegear website)?  Any chance they can make one that has a gpwiz encoder BUILT in? 

(3) is it really worth it for me to add control panel #3?  This is going to add a lot of coin to the original budget....

[Kremmit]

I can't answer any questions about Randy's new product, but:

1)  You can have all 4 joysticks hooked up, sure.  Each 49-way will need it's own GP-Wiz49.  You will need to configure your horizontal games to use the sticks on the horiz panel, and the vertical games to use the vertical panel sticks.

2)  There aren't any other replacement tops for 49-ways.  Williams 49-ways come with ball-tops already.

3)  It's worth it if you're only going to have one MAME machine, because otherwise you'd be missing out on all the horizontal games.  If you're going to have another machine with a horizontal monitor, then maybe not.

[Quarterhorse]

1)  You can have all 4 joysticks hooked up, sure.  Each 49-way will need it's own GP-Wiz49.  You will need to configure your horizontal games to use the sticks on the horiz panel, and the vertical games to use the vertical panel sticks.

How do I go about configuring it for horizontal to use horizontal player one and not vertical player one?  Is this done through the frontend or mame config settings?  I'm using (have been using) MALA in the past as it can rotate for cocktail tables the menu to the side where action is occurring....

[ahofle]

1)  You can have all 4 joysticks hooked up, sure.  Each 49-way will need it's own GP-Wiz49.  You will need to configure your horizontal games to use the sticks on the horiz panel, and the vertical games to use the vertical panel sticks.

How do I go about configuring it for horizontal to use horizontal player one and not vertical player one?  Is this done through the frontend or mame config settings?  I'm using (have been using) MALA in the past as it can rotate for cocktail tables the menu to the side where action is occurring....

Worst case you could open up mame and map both player one joysticks to the same things like P1 left, right, etc in the in-game tab settings. 

[davieboynj]

I made a couple cocktail tables similar to what you're making and i'd have to agree that  if it's your only cabinet you definitely want the side by side joysticks in the front.   If you're going to a classics only design, you'll probably be happier without it just for simplicity and lack of confusion when other people use your cab.

Question tho...  Are you sure your front joysticks really need 4 way functionality?  I'm hard pressed to think of a game that I play in a horizontal format that i've ever been frustrated with for lack of true 4-way joysticks.  The cost of buying 49 way joysticks may not be worth it ($35 joy + $20 gpwiz + $13 cable + $10 gasket return + $? balltop + $15 ship all = ~$100 each).  Let that extra money ride, and get yourself a nice spinner or trackball (or both!). 

I actually do like the idea of 49 ways for the two ends, but still feel that functionally they are not enough to justify the cost.  They have a round motion which most people feel is not ideal for most vertical games.  Have you considered starting off with something with a restrictor plate (like a j-stick) and just cutting some slots in the bottom to twist the plate when necessary?  I'm actually a big fan of the suzo inductives, but i know their short throw is an acquired taste.  i acquired it when i saw my time pilot score double . 

As far as the end joysticks go, in my case anyways, they are in 4 way mode 90% of the time.  There are very few exceptions:  gauntlet 4p, time pilot, time pilot 84, gaplus.  I usually play with other people, so all my shmups play on the horizontal mode so that we can take on the forces of evil together.  With the suzo, i just toggle a switch and i'm in 4p mode on both end joysticks 

Also with the end joysticks, I think you would want to wire the end joysicks as controllers 3+4 instead of 1+2.  I did this on my second cocktail.  a couple reasons:
  a. Some 4p games play rather well like that (gauntlet I + II), and some 3-4p games (Rampage, Off-Road, nearly any beat-em-up) play well enough that if you handicap yourself enough to keep the game interesting for your buds. 
  b.  it's really quite easy to generate a couple extra controller schemes in your controller config file.  any time you set a game to rotate the screen, just add the lines to the controller config for that individual game, and you're set.  Some (like gauntlet) will require a complete rewrite of the directional controls for the character to move properly, and others that use relative controls (Offroad) won't. 
  c.  Avoid confusion with people trying to play with the wrong controls.  It's nice because with separate inputs they can't even start the game from the wrong controls. 

that must be my longest post ever...  good luck building your cabinet.  adding a front panel makes for a lot more decisions, but also makes for a really versitile cabinet...  I'm sure you'll find out what you want to do for controls, but i'd avoid committing myself to $350 worth of 49-way joysticks.  Throw in the fact that Happ keeps on making the product worse, and it seems to even make less sense...

[RandyT]

The cost of buying 49 way joysticks may not be worth it ($35 joy + $20 gpwiz + $13 cable + $10 gasket return + $? balltop + $15 ship all = ~$100 each).  Let that extra money ride, and get yourself a nice spinner or trackball (or both!). 

You forgot to mention that no other encoders are necessary to control buttons, joysticks or any other on/off type controls.  This can result in a significant savings which offsets the cost.

Also, the replacement grommet, balltop and cable are all optional items.  The only one I would strongly recommend is the grommet if the player has a very forceful playing style.

I actually do like the idea of 49 ways for the two ends, but still feel that functionally they are not enough to justify the cost.

FWIW and this may sound biased, but I can have any stick I want on my machine and I can honestly say that there will never be anything else on my personal unit.  They are more costly, yes, but if you can swing the price, you won't find any single stick to be as versatile.

RandyT

[davieboynj]

You forgot to mention that no other encoders are necessary to control buttons, joysticks or any other on/off type controls.  This can result in a significant savings which offsets the cost.

True, True...  Maybe that would offset it enough to do 49ers for the two ends, as you wouldn't have to buy a couple keywiz's or an ipac4.  I'd have to think about that next time i build another cab...  I think I'd have to wait for yours to come out though.  I can't see supporting Happs 49 way sticks when something better is just around the corner... 

Also, the replacement grommet, balltop and cable are all optional items.  The only one I would strongly recommend is the grommet if the player has a very forceful playing style.

the ~$100 was even without the balltop.  And you're being far too humble, the grommet IS necessary     Also, in terms of versitility, how do you feel about the Suzo inductives you sell?  I'm currently thrilled with them. 

Oh, and i would definitely do the 49 ways if i had any intention of emulating current consoles, or if i was the distributor, or if I was filthy rich  . 

[Quarterhorse]

Thank you for all your input + responses.  I'm beginning to think about two P360's in 8 way mode on the horizontal end + a trackball there and perhaps the "new"/modified 49-way GGG joys on the ends of the cocktail.  That way I can play 4 way games + rotated 4 ways like q bert easily vertically in their proper format and have 8 way games horizontally (robotron, fighters, sport games).  Of course, if somebody knew where I could get some 8 way WICO red balltop leafs for the horizontal side this would get easy quickly. 

Question on the Suzo's......any other handles besides the ones it comes with?  My cocktail is a Galaga theme and I'd really like a red balltop (and similar to the balltop type that will go on my P360's)...They definitely seem like they may be a viable choice for my ends and much cheaper....

[davieboynj]

I'm beginning to think about two P360's in 8 way mode on the horizontal end + a trackball there and perhaps the "new"/modified 49-way GGG joys on the ends of the cocktail. 

I think you'll be very happy with that setup... 

Of course, if somebody knew where I could get some 8 way WICO red balltop leafs for the horizontal side this would get easy quickly.

Doesn't ponyboy have the wico balltops for p360?

Question on the Suzo's......any other handles besides the ones it comes with?  My cocktail is a Galaga theme and I'd really like a red balltop (and similar to the balltop type that will go on my P360's)...They definitely seem like they may be a viable choice for my ends and much cheaper....

You'd only pay $40 for two of them, But the Suzo's might not be for you.  They have a very short throw (5 deg) and a octagonal restrictor pattern.  I know you had some problems with the Mag Sticks, and the Suzo's will have a similar feel.  They also do not have a replaceable joystick, or at least not without you being a wizard on the lathe.  In terms of the looks you want, I'd wait on GGG's Balltop 49-way, and maybe pick up the 2 GPWiz49's now so that you can get your ($75 for 2 on Ebay) Perfect 360's wired in while you're waiting for the 49's to materialize. 

If GGG's new 49 way shaves any of the aforementioned cost or necessary upgrades off of the Happ unit, it would definitely be tough to choose any multi-purpose joystick over it.  Buying everything from one person, and not having to deal with Happ, in addition to the the cost savings of having a KB encoder, will seal the deal.