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Author Topic: 49-Way vs p360  (Read 720 times)

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Quarterhorse

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49-Way vs p360
« on: April 24, 2006, 04:09:06 pm »
Thanks for all your help for this newbie.  I'm constructing a cocktail table -- almost done -- and am playing primarily 4 way or 8 vertical classic and shooter games.  I bought the Mag Stick plus joysticks but can't stand the shorter throw.  Also, the joysticks feel "loose" sitting there and it sometimes is even difficult to hit the 4-ways if it's rotated a bit.  Simply put, I don't think the mag sick pluses are for me.  I haven't attached my control panels to the cocktails yet so I still have time to change to a different joystick and resale the mag sticks.  The two I am looking at are the p360s and 49-way.  Looks like both will be much smoother and act as 4 way or 8 way.  For people that have these, which do you prefer and why?  If it'll help -- I'm also wanting to do a red balltop similar to the Galaga/MsPac style.   Thanks for your advice!

Kremmit

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Re: 49-Way vs p360
« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2006, 04:17:25 pm »
P360s are great sticks, except for 4-way games.  As 4-ways, they are the suck.  If you get some anyway, you can get balltops for Wico leafswitch sticks to fit.  This includes the ones that come with the cheap "Wico-style" clone sticks, and the replacement handles that Ponyboy sells.

49-ways are good, but you have to get two GP49s to use them in a 4-way mode.  Also, you'll probably want a pair of RandyTs replacement grommets.  He also has red balltops available for them.

If you don't like the short throw on the Mag-Stiks, then the other switchable sticks (the discontinued T-stick plus and the Omni-Stick Prodigy) are also not for you, as they have a short throw too.

Another option might be the J-Stick, but you have to open up the control panel to change to 4-way mode- I don't know if this will be easy with your coctail panel.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2006, 11:39:48 pm by Kremmit »

kowal

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Re: 49-Way vs p360
« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2006, 04:37:23 pm »
use seimitsu LS32. he is good to shumps and 4 way games. His rezystor 4way does not cause extension of throw, engage.
P360 has hopeless mode 4way but  it is good to shumps.

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Re: 49-Way vs p360
« Reply #3 on: April 24, 2006, 06:14:13 pm »
Why do u need 2 GP-WIZ49s to use them in a 4-way mode?.  Also, whats wrong with the grommets installed in the 49s from the factory?

Kremmit

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Re: 49-Way vs p360
« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2006, 08:08:21 pm »
Why do u need 2 GP-WIZ49s to use them in a 4-way mode?.  Also, whats wrong with the grommets installed in the 49s from the factory?

You need GP-Wiz49s because the only other interface for 49-ways (the SJC) does not have a 4-way mode.  You need two because each one only controls one stick. 

As for the grommets:
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=53073.0

escher

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Re: 49-Way vs p360
« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2006, 08:46:04 pm »
Thanks for all your help for this newbie.  I'm constructing a cocktail table -- almost done -- and am playing primarily 4 way or 8 vertical classic and shooter games.  I bought the Mag Stick plus joysticks but can't stand the shorter throw.  Also, the joysticks feel "loose" sitting there and it sometimes is even difficult to hit the 4-ways if it's rotated a bit.  Simply put, I don't think the mag sick pluses are for me.  I haven't attached my control panels to the cocktails yet so I still have time to change to a different joystick and resale the mag sticks.  The two I am looking at are the p360s and 49-way.  Looks like both will be much smoother and act as 4 way or 8 way.  For people that have these, which do you prefer and why?  If it'll help -- I'm also wanting to do a red balltop similar to the Galaga/MsPac style.   Thanks for your advice!

Thanks for asking this question.  I was actually beginning to wonder the same thing.  I had planned out 2 P360's, but the more I read, the more it makes me unsure.

How do the 49-ways hold up for fighters?  Are there corner notches, or is it rounded like the 360?

Quarterhorse

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Re: 49-Way vs p360
« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2006, 09:49:16 pm »
All of this advice is great and greatly appreciated.  I still don't understand why the p360 is bad for 4 way games.  Is it easy to get it stuck in the corners when in 8 way mode?  I thought it was round and a perfect 360....doesn't make sense to me (then again I should ride in small school buses). 

And with the 49way.....I'd need to buy:  (2) sticks (2) GP Wiz and (2) GP Wiz cables right?  Plus the balltops....This is adding up quick...is it really worth it over my mag sticks?

Kremmit

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Re: 49-Way vs p360
« Reply #7 on: April 24, 2006, 10:23:35 pm »
re: 49-ways and corners

Nope, no notches.  The restriction is perfectly round.  I have heard differing opinions on whether or not this is good for fighters, and I have no opinion either way, as I don't play fighters.  I do know that a lot of the hardcore fighter players are moving to Sanwa, Semitsu, and the like.

re:  Why the P-360 is bad for 4-way games

Well, first, there's no 4-way mode for a P360.  You have to change the actuator on the bottom of the stick to change modes.  That's a pain if you plan to do it often.  But the big problem is the round restriction coupled with the long throw.

A true 4-way stick has a diamond shaped restrictor hole.  The points of the diamond are oriented toward the cardinal directions:  Up, Down, Left, and Right.  The flat sides of the diamond face the diagonals.  This does two things:  The stick is naturally guided towards the cardinal directions, and it is prevented from going to the diagonals.

A joystick with a round or octagonal restrictor does not do this- the stick will just as happily go to the corners as it will go to the cardinal directions.  A stick with a square restrictor will tend to favor the corners over the cardinals.

With a P360, if you don't change the actuator, it is easy to hit diagonals when you don't want to.  And hitting diagonals when you're playing a 4-way game can be disastrous.  On some games, the on-screen character will choose a direction at random.  In others, it will continue in the direction it was last pointed.  On some other games, the character will simply stop until you push a cardinal direction again.

If you do change the actuator, you may find that there are large dead spots in the corners, and the stick won't guide itself to the cardinals.  Many players, myself included, miss the feel that comes with the diamond restriction and believe it slows down your reaction time. 

That's why so many panels still incorporate a dedicated 4-way stick, along with the 8-ways.  Or have swapable/modular/rotating panels that allow a 4-way to be swapped in when it's called for.  I don't know how possible this is for your coctail setup, though, which is why I suggested the J-stik.  It switches between 4 and 8-way modes by just rotating the restrictor plate, which is much easier than an actuator swap, and provides the true 4-way feel.  They are available with a red balltop, and have a longer throw than the Mags. 

The 49-ways are a trade-off:  It's not the best 4-way, but it's better than an 8-way with an actuator swap.  You don't get the true 4-way restriction, but the electronic 4-way mode keeps you from accidentally hitting diagonals, and doesn't leave huge dead spots in the corners.  It has the longer throw you want, and has the bonus of making 49-way, Hall-effect, and some analog joystick games playable.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2006, 10:32:07 pm by Kremmit »

miles2912

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Re: 49-Way vs p360
« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2006, 10:38:48 pm »
I honestly think that the P360s and a dedicarted 4-way are a hard combo to beat.  That being said I would have no problem going the 49 way route on a future project.  When you add in the cost of the 49 way controller there isn't a financial savings but you can save some real estate on your CP.   So for a conversion cab that might only have room for 2 sticks the 49 way would be a great choice.  If you are building one from scratch then then a few P360's and a dedicated 4 way might be a better solution.

For your setup I would probably go with a 49 way.

Don
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Quarterhorse

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Re: 49-Way vs p360
« Reply #9 on: April 24, 2006, 10:50:02 pm »
Thanks for your lengthy and understandable answers.  Beginning to make more sense.  Sounds like the 49-way is the way to go for me....AFTER finding a sneaky way to spend $150 without the spouse detecting it...

Any cool joys on the way to the market worth waiting for?

specfire

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Re: 49-Way vs p360
« Reply #10 on: April 25, 2006, 02:45:46 pm »
I have never tried one but am waiting for delivery on a pair of Suzo Inductive sticks.  It apparently has an octagonal restrictor plate (you can feel the 8 primary directions) and it is electronically adjustable from 8 to 4 way operation (no dead zones and no accidental diagonals.)  So, it won't feel as good as a true 4 way, but should have a lot better feel than the 49 way or the P360 with a 4way actuator.  I think that the Suzo Inductives have a short throw so that might not be good for you.  I was convinced that I would go with a 49way solution but the throw on those sticks is just too long for me.

Check out this recent thread: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=52876.0

Level42 put me on to the fact that TNT Amusements is selling these sticks for $17.99, which is about half what they normally retail for.  You can find TNT at http://www.tntamusements.com/

I have been sitting on the fence for well over a year on which joystick to choose.  When RandyT announced the GPWiz49, I thought it was absolutely the coolest arcade product out there and that I would get one soon.  I still think that it is the most original and coolest product but just not for me.  I just can't get into such a long throw for such a large expense.  I was hoping to choose a stick solution where I could also add a trigger or top fire button in order to have a "do it all" type stick but I have given up on that. 

If you might want a fire button or other after market mods, then the P360 and the 49way seem to be the two sticks with the most after market modification options, although still no aftermarket fire button solution. :( 

spec
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Re: 49-Way vs p360
« Reply #11 on: April 25, 2006, 04:48:49 pm »
I was convinced that I would go with a 49way solution but the throw on those sticks is just too long for me.

I'm not sure if you've actually tried using the GP-Wiz49 and 49-way combo, but don't get "thrown" by the throw :).  The sticks are quite "tight" in their actuation and don't require one to push the stick anywhere near the physical limits to operate them properly.  The types who like the physical throw limits and who are not concerned with full 49-way operation can use a smaller hole in the CP to limit the maximum stroke.

If you like the Suzo sticks and want a firebutton on top, don't forget to take a look at the Firetop Prodigy.  Physical 4/8 way restricted action, short throw AND a button on top. :)  Still uses microswitches though.

RandyT