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Author Topic: $%# the freakin' $$$ keeps adding up, Druin help inside please!  (Read 1060 times)

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XtraSmiley

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OK, sometimes you get great deals, sometimes bad ones and other times, the deal makes you it's ---smurf--- and keeps ---smurfing--- you.

Awhile ago, I over paid for a pair of SNK LS-30 joysticks, a druin board and an Ipac.

My goal has been to put one joystick, the druin and the ipac into this:

http://www.arcadecab.com/Store/Single_Base_Details.htm

And play a little Ikari Warriors when the mood hit me right.  If all went well, then maybe add a second one for a friend (having the LS-30, I'd have to buy another druin and ipac).

Well, first the store stopped selling these right as I was about to order, then, months later when he's back I realize that the damn joystick is a metal mount only.

Even routing the damn thing to 1/5 of MDF would leave me with a very short stick.  That's OK I think, I'm still doing it.  I NEED this joystick.

I email Mike and tell him, do it man, I don't care if the joystick is short, I HAVE to have this.

Well, now it's 5 am and as I'm putting my stick back together again (after spending over an hour trying to figure out how to make the stick longer) I realize that the freakin' Druin board needs +5 of power.  Hmm I think, funny I didn't notice that before...

Guess what, the GD Ipac doesn't have a +5 volt out on it!!!!!!!  Freakin-frak.

Any idea's?  Should I buy another encoder?  Is there one out there that will allow me to get the power I need?

Damn, this is turning out to be the impossible joystick to get.  I think I may end up selling it here and calling it a loss.  Anyone have an idea to help me out?
« Last Edit: April 14, 2006, 05:49:30 am by XtraSmiley »
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Fozzy The Bear

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Re: $%# the freakin' $ keeps adding up, Druin help inside please!
« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2006, 06:02:51 am »
Even routing the damn thing to 1/5 of MDF would leave me with a very short stick.  That's OK I think, I'm still doing it.  I NEED this joystick.

Easy.... Route it into the top, not the bottom of the panel.... Fit it using countersunk screws or bolts and then cover the top with your artwork and plexiglass, which will hide it.

Guess what, the GD Ipac doesn't have a +5 volt out on it!!!!!!!  Freakin-frak.

Any idea's?  Should I buy another encoder?  Is there one out there that will allow me to get the power I need?

Don't try to take the power from the interface.... Run a power line from the PC off one of the hard drive plugs. You can get your 5V from there. OR buy a small 5V plug in power supply from Walmart or Home Depot or most electrical suppliers and plug it into the mains, then put a socket to plug the other end into on the back of your panel box.  That's the cheapest option.

OR if you want another encoder to supply the power then KeyWiz has a 5V line for this purpose.

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)
« Last Edit: April 14, 2006, 06:04:58 am by Fozzy The Bear »
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XtraSmiley

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Re: $%# the freakin' $ keeps adding up, Druin help inside please!
« Reply #2 on: April 14, 2006, 06:15:48 am »
Even routing the damn thing to 1/5 of MDF would leave me with a very short stick.  That's OK I think, I'm still doing it.  I NEED this joystick.

Easy.... Route it into the top, not the bottom of the panel.... Fit it using countersunk screws or bolts and then cover the top with your artwork and plexiglass, which will hide it.

Guess what, the GD Ipac doesn't have a +5 volt out on it!!!!!!!  Freakin-frak.

Any idea's?  Should I buy another encoder?  Is there one out there that will allow me to get the power I need?

Don't try to take the power from the interface.... Run a power line from the PC off one of the hard drive plugs. You can get your 5V from there. OR buy a small 5V plug in power supply from Walmart or Home Depot or most electrical suppliers and plug it into the mains, then put a socket to plug the other end into on the back of your panel box.  That's the cheapest option.

OR if you want another encoder to supply the power then KeyWiz has a 5V line for this purpose.

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)

Fozzy you are the man, but I can't top mount so it's not an option, sadly.

The power is the thing that is really bugging me.  Can you link to a picture of the cheap walmart option you are talking about?  I can't do the PC power option b/c I will be using this in my living room on my big screen and the darn computer is like in the entertainment center, getting power from it is hard.

Witch Keywiz has the power out?  Does the cheap $20 one have it?  I'd like a USB encoder as well, but maybe I'm asking for to much?

Thanks.
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Re: $%# the freakin' $ keeps adding up, Druin help inside please!
« Reply #3 on: April 14, 2006, 06:29:18 am »
The power is the thing that is really bugging me.  Can you link to a picture of the cheap walmart option you are talking about?  I can't do the PC power option b/c I will be using this in my living room on my big screen and the darn computer is like in the entertainment center, getting power from it is hard.

If your PC has a spare hard drive power plug running off it's power supply then you can just plug a lead into that. Or you can put a splitter lead on one of the existing hard drive power leads.

If you want the cheap Walmart option, just go into the store and get a little universal power supply.... they're usually sold to power toys and handheld games and radios and things like that. Some of them even have a switchable output with 1.5v 3.0v 5.0v 9.0v 12.0v on a selector switch, just make sure you buy one with a 5V output.  You may even already have one around the house.

Witch Keywiz has the power out?  Does the cheap $20 one have it?  I'd like a USB encoder as well, but maybe I'm asking for to much?

All KeyWiz interfaces have a 5V line available for powering joysticks that need it. 

KeyWiz is a PS2 interface, but you can plug one into USB by using a PS2 to USB adapter lead.

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)
« Last Edit: April 14, 2006, 06:32:50 am by Fozzy The Bear »
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Grasshopper

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Re: $%# the freakin' $$$ keeps adding up, Druin help inside please!
« Reply #4 on: April 14, 2006, 06:50:10 am »
XtraSmiley, I have some good news for you. The Ipac does actually have a +5v output. But you have to take the power from one of the header pins. A diagram can be found here - http://www.ultimarc.com/ipac2.html

If you don't like soldering and haven't got a header pin connector then just hack a CD-ROM drive audio cable.

Alternatively, if you don't want to use the Ipac's +5v header pin then you could just tap into the +5v wire of the USB or ps/2 cable connecting the Ipac to the computer.
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XtraSmiley

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Re: $%# the freakin' $$$ keeps adding up, Druin help inside please!
« Reply #5 on: April 14, 2006, 06:56:36 am »
XtraSmiley, I have some good news for you. The Ipac does actually have a +5v output. But you have to take the power from one of the header pins. A diagram can be found here - http://www.ultimarc.com/ipac2.html

If you don't like soldering and haven't got a header pin connector then just hack a CD-ROM drive audio cable.

Alternatively, if you don't want to use the Ipac's +5v header pin then you could just tap into the +5v wire of the USB or ps/2 cable connecting the Ipac to the computer.

This forum and you guys rock!!!!!!!!!!!!

OK, I do have like 5 spare CDROM audio cables, but I'm a moron and can't figure out the diagram that you linked to.  Can you make like an MS PAINT stick figure version for a layman?  Thanks again!
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Ninten-doh

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Re: $%# the freakin' $$$ keeps adding up, Druin help inside please!
« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2006, 07:08:11 am »
Xtra,
If you don't like soldering and want USB, I think you can use the Ultimarc VE (Value Edition) as well as the Ipac2 that Grasshopper mentioned.  It's got USB, screw downs, and +5v screw down.  It's what I'm planning to use.  It's $35 including shipping if you already have a USB cable to use.

http://www.ultimarc.com/ipacve.html

Also, in terms of mounting, rdagger has a "how to" on top mounting the LS30's.

http://69.33.42.246/arcade/LS30.aspx
« Last Edit: April 14, 2006, 07:24:18 am by Ninten-doh »

XtraSmiley

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Re: $%# the freakin' $$$ keeps adding up, Druin help inside please!
« Reply #7 on: April 14, 2006, 07:14:34 am »
Sadly I already own a non-USB, non-screw down one... damn!

Here is what I'm thinking:



The only thing I don't understand is what is all this resistor stuff on the ultimarc diagram?  Can I just do it like this with a straight 5v and ground to the Druin 5v and ground?
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XtraSmiley

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Re: $%# the freakin' $$$ keeps adding up, Druin help inside please!
« Reply #8 on: April 14, 2006, 07:21:30 am »
Xtra,
If you don't like soldering and want USB, I think you can use the Ultimarc VE (Value Edition) as well as the Ipac2 that Grasshopper mentioned.  It's got USB, screw downs, and +5v screw down.  It's what I'm planning to use.  It's $35 including shipping if you already have a USB cable to use.

http://www.ultimarc.com/ipacve.html

Also, in terms of mounting, rdagger has a "how to" on top mounting the LS30's.

http://69.33.42.246/arcade/LS30.aspx

Yeah, sadly already have the ipac and as far as top mounting, it has problems, such as not being able to plug in the joy and having to solder it, also making it a permanent part of my housing (I may want to switch it out).

As such, it will have to be a thin portion.  I think I'll try 1/5 of an inch and see if that holds.  I'm not sure routing that much is a good idea with MDF, but it's not in an arcade which takes a ton of pounding, it's on my lap... so I we'll see, I guess.
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Grasshopper

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Re: $%# the freakin' $$$ keeps adding up, Druin help inside please!
« Reply #9 on: April 14, 2006, 07:41:18 am »
The only thing I don't understand is what is all this resistor stuff on the ultimarc diagram?  Can I just do it like this with a straight 5v and ground to the Druin 5v and ground?

Yes you can just wire it up as per your diagram. The resistor stuff is only applicable if you're wiring up the num, caps and scroll lock LEDs so you can have flashing player start buttons.

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Re: $%# the freakin' $$$ keeps adding up, Druin help inside please!
« Reply #10 on: April 14, 2006, 11:02:00 am »
could you use a joystick mounting plate? i had one a while ago that i got from oscar controls, i know they arent seling all the time, but you may be able to find something to work

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Re: $%# the freakin' $ keeps adding up, Druin help inside please!
« Reply #11 on: April 14, 2006, 11:33:25 am »
Quote
OR buy a small 5V plug in power supply from Walmart or Home Depot or most electrical suppliers and plug it into the mains, then put a socket to plug the other end into on the back of your panel box.  That's the cheapest option

The Walmart power supply would probably work, but in theory it could damage the encoder or the IPAC, because cheap transformers don't always have consistent voltage and you would be mixing grounds and +5V between the computer's power supply and the Walmart power supply.  I think the most reliable solution is to use the IPAC's 5V pin headers.  Make sure you use a meter to insure you have the correct polarity.

btw: old computers are a great source for the female .100" pin header connectors.  Often serial ports were connected to the motherboard with a 10 pin connector that fits the IPAC perfectly.  Or if you just need power, most old computers have several 2 pin connectors for the LED's and switches.

Quote
Also, in terms of mounting, rdagger has a "how to" on top mounting the LS30's.

http://69.33.42.246/arcade/LS30.aspx
That IP is no longer valid.  Please use: http://www.rototron.info?Page=LS30.aspx

« Last Edit: September 02, 2006, 01:29:58 pm by rdagger »

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Re: $%# the freakin' $$$ keeps adding up, Druin help inside please!
« Reply #12 on: April 14, 2006, 12:45:55 pm »
I went the routed out way with my LS-30's also. The stick is shorter than normal but does work well. the only problem you'll have is getting the tool under the handle to release the top. Have you considered making a 2 player panel? Then you only need 1 druin interface and 1 Ipac. I too suggest using the power from the Ipac, not a seperate supply.

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Re: $%# the freakin' $ keeps adding up, Druin help inside please!
« Reply #13 on: April 14, 2006, 02:54:32 pm »
Quote
The Walmart power supply would probably work, but in theory it could damage the encoder or the IPAC, because cheap transformers don't always have consistent voltage and you would be mixing grounds and +5V between the computer's power supply and the Walmart power supply.  I think the most reliable solution is to use the IPAC's 5V pin headers.  Make sure you use a meter to insure you have the correct polarity.

Thanks the Ipac solution is the best, but if I did go with a cheap solution I'll keep the damage aspect in mind, although it would damage the Druin, not Ipac is what you meant to say, right?

Tell me more about this "polarity" thing.  What is that, and how do I check it?  I have a meter, but no idea about how to check that.  If I go with my diagram, won't things be right on the money?  What do I need to check?

Thanks a million guys, now I don't feel so bad about my $300 one player panel!  :)
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Re: $%# the freakin' $$$ keeps adding up, Druin help inside please!
« Reply #14 on: April 14, 2006, 03:24:10 pm »
Yeah, I'm curious about the polarity issue as well.  Not to mention I don't have a meter.  Newb question...what type of meter?  I'm going to be stealing tools from my dad this weekend, so I can add it to the list.   ;D

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Re: $%# the freakin' $ keeps adding up, Druin help inside please!
« Reply #15 on: April 14, 2006, 06:13:32 pm »
Thanks the Ipac solution is the best, but if I did go with a cheap solution I'll keep the damage aspect in mind, although it would damage the Druin, not Ipac is what you meant to say, right?

No, you could "in theory" damage both.   You'd have to verify with Randy, but assuming the IPAC inputs pins are normally 5V high with internal pull-up resistors and that rotary interface output pins are also normally high at 5V than if one of the power supplies is out of equilibrium than it is possible that you could get an undesired flow of current.  Cheap power supplies are not very well regulated.  Both the Cyprus chip on the IPAC and the Atmel chip on Druin's board have a 5.5V maximum.

Quote
Tell me more about this "polarity" thing.  What is that, and how do I check it?  I have a meter, but no idea about how to check that.  If I go with my diagram, won't things be right on the money?  What do I need to check?
Set your meter to test DC volts.  Place the red probe on the +5V output from the IPAC and place the black probe on the Ground output from the IPAC.  The meter should read approximately 5V.  If it reads -5V than you are doing something wrong.  It is very likely that if you reversed the 5V and the Ground that you would blow the bypass capacitor on the rotary interface and possibly damage the microcontroller.

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Re: $%# the freakin' $ keeps adding up, Druin help inside please!
« Reply #16 on: April 14, 2006, 09:58:40 pm »
No, you could "in theory" damage both.   You'd have to verify with Randy, but assuming the IPAC inputs

Maybe verify with Andy instead.   ;)

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Re: $%# the freakin' $$$ keeps adding up, Druin help inside please!
« Reply #17 on: April 14, 2006, 10:30:18 pm »
Wow, instructions that even I could understand.  Thank you everyone.  Once (if) I get the CP in and actually install it all, I'll take photo's and let everyone know how it works.  I hoping by then Power MAME has all the rotary problems worked out perfect.

Thanks, a million times thanks!
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