What is important when considering purchasing a CP?

[ArcadEd]

As I consider Arcade-In-A-Box branching out a little further into the control panel only market, I'm curious what is important to you when considering a purchase, besides the price.  I know I can be competive there.

My goal with Arcade-In-A-Box has always been quality first, and I won't deter from that. 

Some things I do with my control panels.

Formica Brand Laminate covering 5/8 particle board.  IMO, Particle board is just as durable as mdf, but is lighter.  They both have their drawbacks (Particle breaking easily, mdf splitting easily).  I've tried both, and just prefer particle board.

Joystick bolts are bolted through, with the heads of the nuts hidden under the formica.  But still easy to replace joysticks if need be.  Joysticks also have a 1/4 inch route underneath for maximum joystick height.

I never use Trackball mounting plates.  I route correct distance so the trackball is flush mounted.  Then secure the trackball underneath making it easy to remove as well.

So, what is it you look for?  Would you like a kit that just includes all the arcade parts and wood for you to assemble yourself?  Mention anything, I'm open to any ideas.

Thanks for the input, hopefully I decide in the next few days to go forward with this or not.  It's a good time as I am just about to get our new store online this week.

[Tahnok]

Laminate: Looking at the pictures the review thread by Saint, it looks like there is some chipping along the inside of the holes. Of course, that is along the area that will never be seen once the parts are in and the box is put together. But I can't help but feeling that I would be a bit disappointed in the craftsmenship if I bought one of these units and it arrived with chips. I understand that laminate is difficult to work with, but it still seems like something that should be fixed.

I had the same question facing me regarding particleboard or MDF for my bartop cabinets. I have found particleboard is definitely the way to go. Especially if you are going to be laminating it and the finish won't be showing.

Joystick bolts and trackball plates: You seem to have two conflicting statements here. You say that you won't use a mounting plate so the trackball is easy to remove. But you also say the bolts go through and are under the laminate, so they are easy to remove. You have basically just created a mounting plate for the joysticks. The bolts can't be removed, just like the mounting plate. The trackball can easily be removed from an installed plate, just like the joystick bolts. Care to explain?

Edit: I just noticed you also don't use any sort of KD fitting to put the box together. I have always thought they add a nice touch to the product. You should maybe consider them, especially if you are getting the boxes CNC cut.

Also, I can't quite tell by the pictures; is there no slant on the panel? I think the top panel should definitely be slanted like a normal CP.

[ArcadEd]

Tahnok, those were demo units only sent out for review.  They are just white melamine painted.  My retail units are fomirca, except for the kits.

I'll explain the other in a bit.  Kid is whining .

[Zeosstud]

ArcadEd,
                I always want to be able to play Robotron on any control panel I would consider buying or make myself.  All the controllers I see with 1 joystick and a bunch of buttons just make no sense.  It is of course a VERY individual / personal thing.  As long as you have some variety in what you offer and its at a fair price you should be able to sell some stuff.  I have always been turned off by people that really try to screw you on shipping too.  I have no beef with making a few bucks on shipping to cover time and expense but taking it to far is a bit of a sore spot.  Best of luck with your new venture.

Zeosstud

[Tahnok]

Tahnok, those were demo units only sent out for review.  They are just white melamine painted.  My retail units are fomirca, except for the kits.

I'll explain the other in a bit.  Kid is whining .

But won't you run into the same problem with laminate? While I understand melamine is thinner, doesn't laminate chip just the same? Also, see my edit on my first post.

[ArcadEd]

No, because I use a trimmer bit designed for laminate to trim all the holes after I lay the formica.  I'll see if I have a picture of a top without a button.

[Tahnok]

No, because I use a trimmer bit designed for laminate to trim all the holes after I lay the formica.  I'll see if I have a picture of a top without a button.

Ah, OK. That makes perfect sense. No need for a picture.

[ArcadEd]

Laminate: Looking at the pictures the review thread by Saint, it looks like there is some chipping along the inside of the holes. Of course, that is along the area that will never be seen once the parts are in and the box is put together. But I can't help but feeling that I would be a bit disappointed in the craftsmenship if I bought one of these units and it arrived with chips. I understand that laminate is difficult to work with, but it still seems like something that should be fixed.

Notice the joystick and trackball holes.  That is how all the holes are.

Joystick bolts and trackball plates: You seem to have two conflicting statements here. You say that you won't use a mounting plate so the trackball is easy to remove. But you also say the bolts go through and are under the laminate, so they are easy to remove. You have basically just created a mounting plate for the joysticks. The bolts can't be removed, just like the mounting plate. The trackball can easily be removed from an installed plate, just like the joystick bolts. Care to explain?

OK, I'll try.
No mounting plate involved.  The bolts go through the top (heads hidden) through the wood.  The base of the joystick is mounted underneath with nuts on the bolts.

Same is true with the trackball, except a few L brackets for added support.

Make sense?

Edit: I just noticed you also don't use any sort of KD fitting to put the box together. I have always thought they add a nice touch to the product. You should maybe consider them, especially if you are getting the boxes CNC cut.

I am not sure I know what KD fitting is.  You mean like tongue and groove?  I do have some drafted up that way, I just never did it.  Once the bottom of the box is on and secure it makes the entire box very durable.  Especially when you add wood glue when putting it all together.  Again, this just comes from a few years of testing different methods.

Also, I can't quite tell by the pictures; is there no slant on the panel? I think the top panel should definitely be slanted like a normal CP.

1 inch from the front to back.

[ArcadEd]

ArcadEd,
                I always want to be able to play Robotron on any control panel I would consider buying or make myself.  All the controllers I see with 1 joystick and a bunch of buttons just make no sense.  It is of course a VERY individual / personal thing.  As long as you have some variety in what you offer and its at a fair price you should be able to sell some stuff.  I have always been turned off by people that really try to screw you on shipping too.  I have no beef with making a few bucks on shipping to cover time and expense but taking it to far is a bit of a sore spot.  Best of luck with your new venture.

Zeosstud

I am always open to doing custom work from people.  That is something I Have never gone away from.

For example, a customer that wanted a custom lit marquee.


And the shipping thing is a pet peeve of mine too.  My shipping is about 10 dollars more than if you got a quote from Fedex only because of the cost of boxes and spray packing foam I use to insure the box gets there safe.

Usually 25-35 dollars for shipping in the US.

[Tahnok]

I understand the method used to mount the trackball and joysticks, what I don't get is why you are so against trackball mounting plates. They are just as easy, if not easier, to use than your method. The trackball can still be removed without having to remove the entire plate.

KD fitting = Knock down fitting. KD fitting, cam & lock, cam & pin, etc. The kind of hardware that allow you to put together and take apart the unit with only a screw driver. I use them in all of my bartop cabinets. Also, many larger companies use them (like Mame Room on their CPs). My favorites are the 3/4" ones listed on this page. They are a bit pricey, but they work quite well.

Laminate: Looking at the pictures the review thread by Saint, it looks like there is some chipping along the inside of the holes. Of course, that is along the area that will never be seen once the parts are in and the box is put together. But I can't help but feeling that I would be a bit disappointed in the craftsmenship if I bought one of these units and it arrived with chips. I understand that laminate is difficult to work with, but it still seems like something that should be fixed.

[Image removed]
Notice the joystick and trackball holes.  That is how all the holes are.

Joystick bolts and trackball plates: You seem to have two conflicting statements here. You say that you won't use a mounting plate so the trackball is easy to remove. But you also say the bolts go through and are under the laminate, so they are easy to remove. You have basically just created a mounting plate for the joysticks. The bolts can't be removed, just like the mounting plate. The trackball can easily be removed from an installed plate, just like the joystick bolts. Care to explain?

OK, I'll try.
No mounting plate involved.  The bolts go through the top (heads hidden) through the wood.  The base of the joystick is mounted underneath with nuts on the bolts.

Same is true with the trackball, except a few L brackets for added support.

Make sense?

Edit: I just noticed you also don't use any sort of KD fitting to put the box together. I have always thought they add a nice touch to the product. You should maybe consider them, especially if you are getting the boxes CNC cut.

I am not sure I know what KD fitting is.  You mean like tongue and groove?  I do have some drafted up that way, I just never did it.  Once the bottom of the box is on and secure it makes the entire box very durable.  Especially when you add wood glue when putting it all together.  Again, this just comes from a few years of testing different methods.

Also, I can't quite tell by the pictures; is there no slant on the panel? I think the top panel should definitely be slanted like a normal CP.

1 inch from the front to back.
[Image removed]

[ArcadEd]

I just don't like the look of the plate on top.  And if I am just going to hide it, it doens't warrant the cost of buying one when the method I use works just fine.  Thats all .

As for the KD.  Yes, all my boxes and kits starting from my next CNC order are done this way.  I made that decision a few months ago and got every thing drafted up in 3d .

[Tahnok]

Fair enough. I don't like the look of them either. I guess, if you are getting CNC cut, there is no reason to not go with the more complicated method. You don't have to worry about them being slightly off.

Glad to hear it. If you don't mind me asking, what brand KD fittings did you go with?

I just don't like the look of the plate on top.  And if I am just going to hide it, it doens't warrant the cost of buying one when the method I use works just fine.  Thats all .

As for the KD.  Yes, all my boxes and kits starting from my next CNC order are done this way.  I made that decision a few months ago and got every thing drafted up in 3d .

[ArcadEd]

Titus.  That's what the CNC Manufacturer suggests and uses.  So that is how we drafted it up .

I'll know if I like them or not in a week or so, hehe.

[Kremmit]

I think a little design work would spruce them up a bit.  Right now, you've got a plain old rectangle there:





Compare it to this one:





The extra angles don't change gameplay particularly, but they do lend a more "professional" look.  You want people thinking that your product is nicer than something that they can make themselves.  You don't want them thinking "Heck, I can make a wooden box!"

I think there might be a small market for kit products.  Either with joys, buttons, etc included but not assembled, or just drilled & routed boxes with no parts.  Maybe even just un-finished top panels, with no box.

A lexan/plexi overlay option might be good, for people who want to print and add their own artwork.

Hinged top panel?

Console adapters?

Depending on your access to the CNC, custom layouts or a very wide variety of layouts would be a plus.  But obviously, not so great if you have to order 100 of the same panel at a time.

[Dizzle]

I'd be interested.  The key for me would be variety/flexibility (as opposed to the limited number of templates other manufacturers offer.

[ArcadEd]

Kremmit, that is actually a bad picture to look at that.  Although the angle isn't as extreme as the x-arcade stick, it is there.  It's similar to the white CP if you scroll up a few posts.  The one with the marquee cutout.

But I see your point.  I always offer different t-molding colors at least .

I'll look into the lexan and see how much it would drive the price up.  The thing about that is, if they are going to put something under the lexan, why bother with the cost of a laminate.  The lexan will be the protection.

Dizzle, I'll always do custom work.  I have a personal CNC machine in my shop for doing custom work away from the manufacturing I get done.

[Kremmit]

I'll look into the lexan and see how much it would drive the price up.  The thing about that is, if they are going to put something under the lexan, why bother with the cost of a laminate.  The lexan will be the protection.

Well, then, skip the laminate for customers with the lexan option!

[ArcadEd]

I'll look into the lexan and see how much it would drive the price up.  The thing about that is, if they are going to put something under the lexan, why bother with the cost of a laminate.  The lexan will be the protection.

Well, then, skip the laminate for customers with the lexan option!

Yeah, I guess that's do able.  Now to just find a source that carries it .

[Tahnok]

I'll look into the lexan and see how much it would drive the price up.  The thing about that is, if they are going to put something under the lexan, why bother with the cost of a laminate.  The lexan will be the protection.

Well, then, skip the laminate for customers with the lexan option!

Yeah, I guess that's do able.  Now to just find a source that carries it .

I have to disagree. You are still going to want the laminate. Particleboard has a very rough texture. You won't want to apply your artwork directly to that. Also, some people may want the lexan option but not plan on putting in artwork. They might want it purely for the sake of having it.

[RobotronNut]

i didn't realize what i was getting myself into when i started with mame. in the last few months, i have:

(1) studied the controls of tons of games and designed a custom control panel that is as close to "universal" as i could make it.

(2) produced a good ctrlr file that makes most games reasonably playable on my panel.

(3) played many games and tweaked around their control layouts in mame, producing a bunch of .CFG files. while most games are playable with just the ctrlr file, most can be improved by hand tweaking.

(4) brought up johnny5 and made a bunch of layouts, so that i can now automatically generate an image of my control panel with controls properly labeled for each mame game.

(5) brought up mamewah and made layouts to display screen shots, my control panel images, and images of the original arcade cabinets and control panels.

(6) in order to work around various mame problems: obtained a binary distribution of mame analog plus and a source distribution of mame, applied some tweaks to mame and rebuilt it. integrated these with mamewah and johnny5.

none of this is spelled out anywhere; every step of the process requires at least a few hours of web research. most of it is an iterative process. as i've gained experience with all of these software elements and the games themselves, i've had to go back and re-do various elements.

all told, i'm sure i've got well over a man-month of system integration invested in this project (and i've only just now reached a "release 1.0" level of completion). i'm primarily interested in the end result, not the process, and i would have loved it if a vendor already had an integrated solution that plays as many games as well as my system does, at a reasonable price.

in my opinion, this kind of system integration would be a great way for a control panel manufacturer to add value.

this level of integration presupposes a standardized control panel layout, which won't satisfy every potential customer... but i think it's possible to make a very usable layout that could satisfy a large fraction of potential customers. one layout could support a fair amount of configurability, simply by allowing users to selectively include or exclude individual elements, or make substitutions between compatible controls under controlled conditions.

in my (obviously biased) opinion, my control panel layout (see the link in my signature) could serve as a great starting point for such a universal layout, and anyone is welcome to use it, if they like. or perhaps someone has a better idea. but if there were some level of standardization, i think a lot of people would make contributions of .CFG files, control panel viewer layouts, etc., which could make this hobby a lot simpler for many of us. (and maybe help you sell a lot of hardware!)

i'm not suggesting that you would bundle and distribute mame, roms, etc. rather, you would distribute config files, layouts, etc. and give people a fairly simple recipe for downloading and installing the elements they need, so they could get a very slickly integrated system up in a few hours, instead of a few months.

another possibility would be some sort of community-supported effort. for now, on an even smaller scale, if there are any individuals out there who would like to use my layout, i'd be happy to share what i have with you and receive back whatever work you put in.