Which Computer For Mame?

[sportswizdan]

Just want to find out from the "experts" what would be better to run in my cab as far as power and running most games without loosing frames and what-not.  A Pentium 4, 1.8 GHZ with 1-gig of ram and a 64MB video card OR a Celeron D Processor, 2.53GHZ, 512MB ram and a onboard video card? Also, would there be a lot of difference between the two computers as far as there performance? Thanks in advance...

Dan

[testicle187]

Either of those should work fine for pretty much any game on Mame.  I would use the Celeron because you probably won't need the extra ram the P4 has in it.  The video card doesn't matter much either, unless you are outputting to a TV or arcade monitor.  The P4 1.8ghz WILL be sluggish and choppy on Killer Instinct if you care about that game as much as I do.  Hope this helps.

[arcade-mad]

Hi
 why dont you load mame onto both pc's and play your fav games on both systems press f11 in game to see frame rate then you will know which is the best pc for your needs.

Both the pc's you mention will run most games ok but remember even the most powerfull systems wont run the CHD files at anywere near full speed yet.

Hope this helps 

[TOK]

It was always my understanding that since the CPU is doing all the work, raw speed has the edge over everything else.  I have a 2ghz P4 in my MAME cab and it works great for everything except the stuff that won't run properly on any machine.

Either way, I think you're safe. It'd actually be interesting to see if the lack of cache on the Celeron would hurt it. Don't think it would, but I don't know for sure.

[destructor]

Remember, Celerons are not for MAME. Intel Pentium use. Forgot about Celerons.

[SithMaster]

why shouldnt he use the celeron?  Im currently using a celeron and it works well, though i dont play chds, for games that came out in 2000.

its a 2.70ghz

[krick]

Remember, Celerons are not for MAME. Intel Pentium use. Forgot about Celerons.

You have no idea what you're talking about.

Compare...

P4 (Willamette or Northwood core)
1.8GHz
256K or 512K cache (depends on core)
400MHz front side bus
http://tinyurl.com/d8cm3

Celeron D (Prescott core)
2.53GHz
256K cache
533MHz front side bus
http://tinyurl.com/racbg


The Celeron D beats the P4 on clock speed and front side bus, not to mention being a newer, faster cpu core.

The only thing that the P4 has going for it is the *possiblility* of having more cache depending on the exact SSpec number.

What's more, the Celeron D is likely on a motherboard with a more modern chipset which will likely contribute to the speed advantage.

Does the Celeron system have an AGP slot?  If you plan on using an ArcadeVGA with an arcade monitor in your cabinet, you'll need it.

[sportswizdan]

I will be using a computer monitor. I dont have the celeron yet to test the differences, so that is why I am asking. Thanks

[xonix_digital]

A Pentium 4, 1.8 GHZ with 1-gig of ram and a 64MB video card OR a Celeron D Processor, 2.53GHZ, 512MB ram and a onboard video card? Also, would there be a lot of difference between the two computers as far as there performance? Thanks in advance...

Dan

Most Celeron D board come with either no Accelerated graphics port or a PCI-Express port. The 1.8ghz P4 is too old, definately uses a Socket 478 which are old boards and were never very well made. Though the "cache" of the P4 is always larger than the Celeron chips of the same generation, I'm not sure that that would necessarily be true with such a large generation gap between the two chips.

If you are going to be using 1.5,2,3 yr old hardware, stay away from Celeron. But something like a Celeron D 2.5ghz will be more than enough for you to run mame.

ALSO, if you are buying/running a Celeron D chip that utilizes the newer LGA (Socket) 775 technology, the path for upgrading will be there because all of the newer Pentium chips are 775s.

But again if you are planning on using an AVGA card for an arcade monitor make SURE you have an AGP slot or your going to hit a wall.

Hope this helps,

-=XD=-

[krick]

The 1.8ghz P4 is too old, definately uses a Socket 478 which are old boards and were never very well made.

That's not really true.  The socket 478 boards based on the Intel 865PE chipset are some of the best boards since the days of the 440BX.

In particular, the ASUS P4P800 series and the ABit IS7 series are wonderful boards that I've personally had experience with.

My primary system is an Abit IS7-E with a P4 2.4C overclocked to 3.0.  Rock stable.  I leave it running 24-7.

Before the 865PE came out, there were a few other P4 chipsets that were pretty good too.  The SIS 645DX is one that comes to mind.

[pointdablame]

Remember, Celerons are not for MAME. Intel Pentium use. Forgot about Celerons.

Where do you get your information? 

The difference in cache may show some differences, but either system would be fine.

OP, don't listen to this guy, a Celeron would work just fine.  I WOULD choose a P4 if I were buying new simply because of the better performance, but either will be ok.  Throw MAME on them and do some tests.. that's the best way to get your answer.

[destructor]

Remember, Celerons are not for MAME. Intel Pentium use. Forgot about Celerons.

Where do you get your information?

From my tests.

[destructor]

why shouldnt he use the celeron?  Im currently using a celeron and it works well, though i dont play chds, for games that came out in 2000.

its a 2.70ghz

Can you check for me some info? Set frameskip to 0 and check speed (in percentage, you can see it after press F11) in:
1. Brave Blade
2. Xevious 3D

[adn0r]

why shouldnt he use the celeron?  Im currently using a celeron and it works well, though i dont play chds, for games that came out in 2000.

its a 2.70ghz

Can you check for me some info? Set frameskip to 0 and check speed (in percentage, you can see it after press F11) in:
1. Brave Blade
2. Xevious 3D

.
With my CeleronD 2.66GHz I usually get about 60% in xevious3D and Brave blade. Xevious is prety playable at 35-40 fps but brave blade gets real choppy sometimes.

[destructor]

Slow. On Athlon XP 64 3200+ speed is 100% in bigger part of game, 90% when on screen is more ships, low 60-80% on bossess.
I will ask my friend about his configuration, his speed is 100% on both games.

[pointdablame]

Slow. On Athlon XP 64 3200+ speed is 100% in bigger part of game, 90% when on screen is more ships, low 60-80% on bossess.
I will ask my friend about his configuration, his speed is 100% on both games.

and a Celeron and an A64 are in completely different leagues. what is your point?

Next you'll tell us your "findings through extensive tests" that an overclocked FX-60 will run games better than a Pentium 233....

You're not giving us any information, you're just bashing people's use of Celerons and saying no one should "ever" use the Celeron cuz its "crap"  yet it isn't.  It's capable of playing a good number of games.  You may not like it for your needs, but you're coming off like a huge tool.

[SithMaster]

[destructor]

I will ask my friend about his configuration, his speed is 100% on both games.

fx-57 with 2 gigs of ram.

[pointdablame]

I will ask my friend about his configuration, his speed is 100% on both games.

fx-57 with 2 gigs of ram.

    I was totally right.

[xonix_digital]

If I knew this was going to turn into a nerd fight I would have joined DAYS earlier!

The 1.8ghz P4 is too old, definately uses a Socket 478 which are old boards and were never very well made.

That's not really true.  The socket 478 boards based on the Intel 865PE chipset are some of the best boards since the days of the 440BX.

In particular, the ASUS P4P800 series and the ABit IS7 series are wonderful boards that I've personally had experience with.

My primary system is an Abit IS7-E with a P4 2.4C overclocked to 3.0.  Rock stable.  I leave it running 24-7.

Before the 865PE came out, there were a few other P4 chipsets that were pretty good too.  The SIS 645DX is one that comes to mind.

Yes of course there were several decent and by god maybe even a few good socket 478 moards but I just have a slight personal vendetta against 478 boards.

In my 3 years of being a computer technician I have seen more dead 478 boards than any other major hardware problem.

Maybe it's just a weird coincidence but nonetheless... I hate 478s.


Sorry for the confusion.




Oh and...

Slow. On Athlon XP 64 3200+ speed is 100% in bigger part of game, 90% when on screen is more ships, low 60-80% on bossess.
I will ask my friend about his configuration, his speed is 100% on both games.

 


-=XD=-

[destructor]

I will ask my friend about his configuration, his speed is 100% on both games.

fx-57 with 2 gigs of ram.

    I was totally right.

Why? Maybe I something wrong understand? I don't compare Athlons to anything, I ask for some speeds in games and write my speeds. It have mothing for main post in this thread, only info about speed. I search what CPU clock is required for these games only (iprepare to buy new CPU).
I still say -> Intel Pentium for MAME.

[NinjaEpisode]

You specifically stated that Celeron's weren't for MAME. 

That statement is false, end of story, just ask any of us, including myself, who are using Celeron's in our MAME cabinets.

sportswizdan to answer your original question either PC your are looking at will work fine for MAME.  What you need to understand, is that there are certain games, within MAME, that just cannot be played, especially when it comes to newer games.  If you can get past that, the two options you are looking at will rock for what you need.

[Hockeyboy]

Ok, quick question for those using Celeron chips for the MAME 'puters:

What type(s) of motherboards are you using? I read in here you need an AGP slot and not PCI-Express, but are you using a P4-based mobo or one that is strictly built for Celeron?

Could a couple of you who have Celerons list your motherboard model and manufacturer?

Thanks.

[krick]

What type(s) of motherboards are you using? I read in here you need an AGP slot and not PCI-Express, but are you using a P4-based mobo or one that is strictly built for Celeron?

The main reason to look for a board with an AGP slot is if you plan on using an Ultimarc ArcadeVGA video card with an arcade monitor.  The ArcadeVGA is currently only available in an AGP version.  Another reason you might want AGP is to run Windows 98SE/ME.  All the new PCI express motherboards only have chipset drivers for Windows 2000 and XP.  98SE/ME have no native PCI Express support and I've only seen one instance of someone who managed to get 98SE working on a PCIExpress motherboard and they did it with hacked beta drivers.  No idea if it was stable or not.

To summarize:   If you don't plan on using an ArcadeVGA and/or running Windows 98SE/ME, then you don't have to worry about AGP.


There is no such thing as a motherboard "strictly built for celerons". 

A celeron processor is just a lower performance version of a P2/P3/P4 CPU.  They use the same sockets and motherboards.  Every board that you find that supports Pentium 4 CPUs, will also support P4 based Celeron CPUs as well.

Usually the Celeron's "lower performance" is achieved by by reducing the CPU's cache, lowering the front side bus, or removing features like hyperthreading.

The initial crop of P2 based celerons were awful because they had no L2 cache.  Intel quickly changed that.    Even though the cache is generally less on a celeron, often it makes little or no difference in real world applications.  Usually, you need to run specific synthetic benchmark tests to show a difference.

If you're trying to squeeze out every last bit of framerate in order to run some of the unplayably slow games in MAME, then by all means, drop $1000 on a P4 Extreme Edition with extra cache and water cool and overclock it.  But if you're just a normal person on a budget like most of us, The latest crop of Celerons are probably plenty fast enough.