New arcade hardware - poll

[Derrick Renaud]

I am just curious what gaming hardware people would like to see that is currently not available or what is available is not good enough quality.

Such as:

1.
Racing wheel that allows you to switch between 270 degree and free-spin 360.

2.
Q-Bert/Pinball knocker that just plugs into usb and works.

3.
Rotary 8 way joystick. That does not feel loose/bouncy as current Happs units do.

4.
Yoke controller.

Would people be interested in purchasing these?

Any other Ideas?

D.

[RichyRich]

I think No1 would go down a storm round here,not sure on the others.Are you planning on manufacturing these?

[Timoe]

We'll buy anything here.  I' know I'll buy it even if I dont need it.

[Level42]

I'd love Nr.1. What exactly do you mean with nr. 2 ?

[Derrick Renaud]

I'd love Nr.1. What exactly do you mean with nr. 2 ?

A knocker is the solenoid that makes a loud bang when Q-Bert dies or when you win a free game in pinball.

BANG!

D.

[Level42]

Ahhhh , OK !!! Did Q-bert have that !!!! I had completely forgotten !!!! Please forgive me, it's been over 20 years ago since I last played that on a (real) cab, and I can't even remember if it was an original.

That's cool to know, and yes I would love that !

[Havok]

Star Wars Yoke repro!!!

[markrvp]

The plug-n-play Q-bert knocker would be awesome.  However, the Q-bert knocker event needs to be written into the main MAME code.  Do you guys have plans and/or a timetable for that?

Also, the rotary joysticks would be nice.  One thing we on this site would really like to see you Mame Devs do is write code into the main MAME software that properly utilizes the mechanical rotary sticks, in Ikari Warriors, i.e. 12 position raw input OR even better would be code that allows one contact closure (key press) to accurately move the sprite gun one click clockwise and another contact closure to accurately move the sprite one click counter-clockwise.  Right now, MAME is written to expect a mouse axis for gun rotation and the conversion to use a digital input for CW or CCW is not accurate.

Do you know if either of these issues is under development/consideration for the main MAME program?

[Q*Bert_OP]

  Qbert Knocker

[Kremmit]

One thing we on this site would really like to see you Mame Devs do is write code into the main MAME software that properly utilizes the mechanical rotary sticks, in Ikari Warriors, i.e. 12 position raw input OR even better would be code that allows one contact closure (key press) to accurately move the sprite gun one click clockwise and another contact closure to accurately move the sprite one click counter-clockwise.  Right now, MAME is written to expect a mouse axis for gun rotation and the conversion to use a digital input for CW or CCW is not accurate.

Do you know if either of these issues is under development/consideration for the main MAME program?

Echo that.  There'd be a lot more people interested in mechanical rotary sticks if the games played better.

The plug-n-play Q-bert knocker would be awesome.  However, the Q-bert knocker event needs to be written into the main MAME code.  Do you guys have plans and/or a timetable for that?

Echo that as well.  The knocker needs something to trigger it.

The 270/360 wheel has been kicked around a number of times, but nobody's actually made one.  A quality piece would certainly sell, as most people don't really want to muck about with changing out their control panels.

Yoke repro:  There's an old thread where I outlined an idea for combining this with the 270/360 wheel idea.  If folks could buy a truely all-in-one unit, I believe they would sell, even at the kind of price you'd have to charge.  Basically, you build a 360 wheel that can have stops and a potentiometer engaged to convert it down to 270.  Then you make the steering wheel swapable with a yoke head.  The Y-axis, trigger & thumbswitch wires would plug in somewhere inside the hollow steering shaft.  Oh, and a Weapons Van button goes on the yoke head, too, might as well get Spy Hunter covered.  Which reminds me, the MAME code needs an event trigger for the Weapons Van button light... 

[rohan]

I vote for the Q-bert knocker; man does that bring back memories...

[Gatt]

(Some thoughts from a newbie arcade controller builder)

1. Would really rock,  be interested in that.

2.  Would be very nice,  I think I'd even pre-order that if it came down to pre-orders to get the funds to manufacter.

3.  While interesting,  I think I'd end up passing on this one,  because for me I'm interested in what supports the widest possible range,  and am using 49-ways.  Down the road,  when I get more adventurous and start doing modular panels,  this would be a definite buy,  and I guarantee it would be a hit product especially if more support was available.

4.  Would be a "Must buy" along with 1 and 2,  and another I'd pre-order.

Some other thoughts,  from a "Newbie".

5.  An easy to use USB LED part.  I've looked at the current offerings,  and they are most certainly usefull,  but they all seem to have the drawback of requiring extensive knowledge to use properly.  I'm electrically clueless and would be interested in a version that you just wire everything in to obvious ports without having to worry about capacitors(Resistors?).

6.  Would be very nice if some form of "LED" type display board could be built that mount on top of or nearby a cabinet that would display current scores and hi-scores,  similiar to the one used by Dragon's Lair.  Wired in USB. 

7.  Shifter,  haven't seen many/any models out there.

8.  (Really wishfull thinking) Prebuilt modular interface.  IPAC would wire into a female end and each panel would wire into a male end,  with some manner of identifing each panel in the male end such as a "Master set of pins".  Would then just be a matter of unplug/plug.  Think of it kinda like an IDE cable,  where the first,  say 8 positions would be used to identify the panel,  and then the remainder would be used to wire in each controller.  I don't even know if it would work,  or if it could be done,  just thinking here on what could be usefull.

[Hurray Banana]

I'd love to have all 4 but in order of want, it would be

Number 1
Number 4
Number 3
Number 2

6.  Would be very nice if some form of "LED" type display board could be built that mount on top of or nearby a cabinet that would display current scores and hi-scores,  similiar to the one used by Dragon's Lair.  Wired in USB. 

That would also be pretty nice to have, especially if it could be linked to VP

[Fozzy The Bear]

1.
Racing wheel that allows you to switch between 270 degree and free-spin 360.

YES!! want it now, as long as the postage to ship it worldwide didn't kill it!

Plus Star Wars / Road Blasters Yoke.... again as long as the postage didn't kill it.

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)

[Derrick Renaud]

Just to clear up some issues.

I have no plans on making these myself.  But I have been recently contacted by a company interested in producing MAME compatible products.  They wish to remain nameless at the moment.  They would like to know what people are interested in, and then they would study the feasibility of it.

Shipping/duty costs are not the fault of any company making a product.  Unless their handling part of the fees are high.

I have no interest in adding anything that does not have to do with emulating devices found on the actual arcade games.  So LCD instructional signs that interface with MAME will never be accepted in the official build.  It has nothing to do with the original hardware, sorry.

I am aware that some of my suggestions require code updates to MAME.  Such as the knocker.  This should not be a problem, once a standardized product exists.

And yes, shifters should be on the list, but that involves removing every game hack that currently exists.  Possibly breaking a lot of games.  Unfortunately I don't like spending my time breaking and fixing stuff.  So this one is low on my list.  Sorry.

Remember, I have just got sidetracked by the input issue.  It all started with some tests I was running on my trackball, which I have yet to report on.  Then I noticed how RAWMOUSE could easily interface with the current code.  And yes, everything I have been blamed for in adding it, was already there with the current joystick/multi-mouse code.  It has more to do with MS's lack of a decent interface, then anything to do with MAME.  But I take full responsibility for XP users now noticing the issue.

Today, I'm going to finally get back to the trackball problem that started this all.  I will report on this when I have confirmed my ideas.  It has nothing to do with MAME code, but how mice report data.

And of course one day, I do have to get back to coding discrete sound.   

D.

[WaRpEd]

#1 and #4 especially a good yoke that won't break the bank

[Flinkly]

1 and 2 i think.  the repro yoke has been done and there weren't any buyers.  with the rotary, we have options for that, other than happs.  bottom line, a 360 to 270 should sell like hottcakes, even if it was 100 bucks and the knocker would sell well around 40 or less.  get cracking on code fixes for q-bert and get number 1 and 2 on the drawing board.

[Kremmit]

1 and 2 i think.  the repro yoke has been done and there weren't any buyers. 

What, the vaporware ones from Gamecab?  Nobody bought because they were never available.

[Fozzy The Bear]

the repro yoke has been done and there weren't any buyers.

Ermm sorry I blinked and missed that happening.... As far as I remember somebody claimed to be releasing a Star Wars Yoke a while back and then they never did.

Does the board think... that people might be interested in a low cost possibly lighter than original weight Star Wars Repro Yoke??  I'd buy one.

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear) 

[markrvp]

the repro yoke has been done and there weren't any buyers.

Ermm sorry I blinked and missed that happening.... As far as I remember somebody claimed to be releasing a Star Wars Yoke a while back and then they never did.

Does the board think... that people might be interested in a low cost possibly lighter than original weight Star Wars Repro Yoke??  I'd buy one.

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear) 

Price is the main issue with the Yoke.  Anything over $100 seemed to make people mess their pants.

[RandyT]

2.
Q-Bert/Pinball knocker that just plugs into usb and works.

FWIW, it's doubtful that something meeting this criteria could be accomplished.  The USB port has neither the voltage nor the current to make this happen.  A USB controller, relay (or big transistor),  transformer and pinball "knocker" are going to be what it takes to do this one right, and it will probably need to plug into a wall socket.  It's a pricey arrangement for something that just goes "bang" on cue though.

RandyT

[2600]

For whoever this nameless company is, usually people here will buy anything, but I see some caveats.

A) For the 270/360, I could easily see wanting the 270 to be pot based, not just a restricted optical wheel.  You'd get major bonus points if you made this the yoke as well or at least have the option.

B) A lot will buy anything, but the overall majority is cheap.  Unless there is a review.  So, your first round of the product may not get a lot of buyers right away.  Also, most are finicky as hell, they will see through if it is utter crap.

C) Qbert Knocker that is just USB plug and play.  You say knocker, most assume a real knocker, maybe not the exact model, but still.  Do you have enough current?  Extra PS is fine. (Woops just saw Randy's Post)

[Derrick Renaud]

2.
Q-Bert/Pinball knocker that just plugs into usb and works.

FWIW, it's doubtful that something meeting this criteria could be accomplished.  The USB port has neither the voltage nor the current to make this happen.  A USB controller, relay (or big transistor),  transformer and pinball "knocker" are going to be what it takes to do this one right, and it will probably need to plug into a wall socket.  It's a pricey arrangement for something that just goes "bang" on cue though.

RandyT

DC-DC convertors up to 50V.  Store charge in cap and bang.  The cap should not take too long to charge.  It should have the charge needed when asked for.  It's not like it is going to go bang non-stop.  The other option is a 16V doorbell transformer with a voltage doubler circuit.  Using a tranformer would make the charge less then a second.  The trick is to not make windows think the usb device unpluged itself due to the spike at bang time.

But price is something that may kill this one.  Solenoid, high current transistor, and large cap cost money.

D.

[Derrick Renaud]

A) For the 270/360, I could easily see wanting the 270 to be pot based, not just a restricted optical wheel.  You'd get major bonus points if you made this the yoke as well or at least have the option.

Any particular reason restricted optical is bad?  If it had an aligment sensor, the count could be made absolute like a pot.  As long as the optical resolution is high.

Again all this is just throwing around ideas to see what the interest would be.

D.

[quarterback]

the repro yoke has been done and there weren't any buyers.

Ermm sorry I blinked and missed that happening.... As far as I remember somebody claimed to be releasing a Star Wars Yoke a while back and then they never did.

I believe only pre-orders got theirs.  There was an early run (I remember seeing all the parts laid out) and then, not so long ago, one person posted about never getting theirs and not getting replies to emails.  Eventually, I believe, they got their money back.

[Fozzy The Bear]

the repro yoke has been done and there weren't any buyers.

Ermm sorry I blinked and missed that happening.... As far as I remember somebody claimed to be releasing a Star Wars Yoke a while back and then they never did.

I believe only pre-orders got theirs.  There was an early run (I remember seeing all the parts laid out) and then, not so long ago, one person posted about never getting theirs and not getting replies to emails.  Eventually, I believe, they got their money back.

Probably didn't get enough pre orders to cover their development costs and maybe couldn't afford to wait for it to actually start selling. 

It's a sad fact of life, that if you ain't got twice the development cots you ain't going to survive the wait for an item to turn the money round.

What's really sad about that, is that if gets done again somebody else is going to have to foot the entire development cost all over again.

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)

[hanelyp]

A) For the 270/360, I could easily see wanting the 270 to be pot based, not just a restricted optical wheel.  You'd get major bonus points if you made this the yoke as well or at least have the option.

Any particular reason restricted optical is bad?  If it had an aligment sensor, the count could be made absolute like a pot.  As long as the optical resolution is high.

Done right with high resolution and a good centering sensor, an optical encoder would be a winner, and last longer than a pot encoder.  Low resolution or flakey centering would be no good for a 270 wheel.

[Fozzy The Bear]

A) For the 270/360, I could easily see wanting the 270 to be pot based, not just a restricted optical wheel.  You'd get major bonus points if you made this the yoke as well or at least have the option.

Any particular reason restricted optical is bad?  If it had an aligment sensor, the count could be made absolute like a pot.  As long as the optical resolution is high.

None as far as I can see.... To be honest, it has a few other advantages as well. Because if it's then considered a standard device by MameDevs, and you're adding the drivers into Mame for it, it gives us a very firm basis for also hacking our own hardware for the Star Wars and Roadblasters controlers, and having a universal standard to work to. Much better than having multiple different control methods hacked into Mame.

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)

[Xiaou2]

 As for the Qbert Knocker..  I would hope that it went Beyond just that...

 And instead.. could be used as Dual Kickback coils in  Terminator 2 guns,  and for  Lightgun usage. (such as Point Blank, TIme Crisis..ect)   (one could mod existing guns to work with these... or implact them into thier own  devices)

 Yes, it would require an outside power source.. but people are more than willing to
pay for good Powerfull and  TRUE  arcade force feedback.

 As for the Optical Only version of a 360/270 wheel... its probably  not the best idea.   As optics can lose count - and then become uncalibrated.    Ive got a design which uses optics and a pot,  and is easily switchable.    Have them contact me,  and I might send them the design...  (if they truely are serious and have the ability to pull it off)

 I believe that people here are more or less looking for arcade quality.. not cheap flimbsy plastic stuff that bends and warps.. and dosnt 'feel'  right.   IE: Feels as if it will snap into pieces when used propperly.    This means that cost may be too high.   This is probably why many have not stepped up and produced the wanted parts.

 Btw - if you want to play a game like Spy Hunter... its got to have trigger buttons and such for good control.   And If the wheel has to rotate 360 degrees... your are going to have to make an encoder thats inside the  main wheel compartment that is Wireless.. and sends button presses to the main controller.   Which also means it will need a battery compartment.    It also might not spin quite as smooth, because the ballance may be off from all the grips and components on the wheel because of it.    As you can see... I spent a good deal of thought into this

 

[Kremmit]

Any particular reason restricted optical is bad?  If it had an aligment sensor, the count could be made absolute like a pot. 

And if the MAME core had a code fix to use that alignment sensor (720 joystick)...

[RobotronNut]

i wonder how much current the original Qbert knocker drew. IIRC, it was much softer than a pinball "popper".

[RobotronNut]

it would be cool if one device could perform the functions of an analog paddle (e.g. warlords) and a high-resolution digital spinner (e.g. arkanoid).

such a device would have both an optical wheel and an analog pot. the pot would have to be connected with some sort of friction-based coupling, like a fishing reel drag disc or a belt, so that it would slip if taken beyond its extremes in either direction.

of course, this would only be interesting if it were also a push/pull spinner for discs of tron...

[Xiaou2]

 Believe it or not, I think Ive just about got that design down pat.      But, I wouldnt want it to be used as a replacement for a full size wheel for example.   Just a pure 'do it all'  spinner.

 But,  I wont release it unless it can be done in Transparent Blue - the same as the tron joystick handle.  (and Not 'semi-translucent',  it has to be the same glossy transparent color)

[Minwah]

As for the Qbert Knocker..  I would hope that it went Beyond just that...

 And instead.. could be used as Dual Kickback coils in  Terminator 2 guns,  and for  Lightgun usage. (such as Point Blank, TIme Crisis..ect)   (one could mod existing guns to work with these... or implact them into thier own  devices)

I agree...if there could be some standard device MAME could output to (Druin was working on something like this a while back).  So in theory you could do the above, and also things like steering feedback, seat vibration...pretty much anything.  At the moment people have generally achieved things like this by using the pretty hackish method of keyboard LED's.

The 270/360 degree combo wheel would be a superb device...as long as it is based around arcade style hardware (bullet proof) rather than the (usually) awful quality console/pc wheels.

[2600]

A) For the 270/360, I could easily see wanting the 270 to be pot based, not just a restricted optical wheel.  You'd get major bonus points if you made this the yoke as well or at least have the option.

Any particular reason restricted optical is bad?  If it had an alignment sensor, the count could be made absolute like a pot.  As long as the optical resolution is high.

Again all this is just throwing around ideas to see what the interest would be.

D.

Devil's in the details.  Just making sure issues like that are thought about.  Optical can be done, just haven't seen one yet.  If they get it to work, another option would be using it as a spinner.  Or at least providing the parts, so it can be made into a spinner.  I'm not sure if the crowd would also require the wheel to be hard restricted as well in 270 mode.

Same thing with the knocker.  Circuits can be made to get it to work, but like you said start costing money for the correct components.  So either it works and you get a bang, or ends up coming out with all the strength of a slow fart.


It's all good stuff, just trying to expand the ideas so the company know where the intrest lies.  As you've seen, sometimes the crowd here can steer you with one hand, only to hit you square in the nuts with the other over the smallest of details.

[Lilwolf]

I would vote for a starwars yoke myself.  If they can keep the prices down to a reasonable level that is. 

Steering wheels are easy enought to get (for each type).

I would rather see a good metal 270 + forced feedback steering wheel then one that changes.  I got about 5 360s for 10bucks each without trouble years ago... sure you could get them for 25 now without trouble.  But they are EASY hackes...   There aren't that many 270s and a starwars yoke actually is great for racing games.

I could see a yoke / 270 combo being a better product for most people.

As for a qbert knocker... I would like to see a seperate interface to work with t2 guns ect like mentioned above.  But I might not use one at all unless it used seperate power.  I would hate to bring my system down whenever qbert jumped.  And with a usb + outside power, it should be easy / cheaper... and give the ability to work with existing hardware.

But I'm going for a good yoke. 

btw, with the last changes to mame with lightgun.  Anyone see if starwars works better with a lightgun?  If it did, and optical starwars yoke might now be feasable and make it MUCH easier to build. 

[yugffuts]

Btw - if you want to play a game like Spy Hunter... its got to have trigger buttons and such for good control.   And If the wheel has to rotate 360 degrees... your are going to have to make an encoder thats inside the  main wheel compartment that is Wireless.. and sends button presses to the main controller.   Which also means it will need a battery compartment.

I can think of a way to do this without going wireless, and avoiding the problem of all the wires being tangled, or developing a wireless controller.

[GGKoul]

Why do you add a poll to the post?  As lots of people would like to vote, but not leave a post...

I vote for No#1.

[Farmboy90]

Yoke please. 

[Minwah]

There aren't that many 270s

I disagree...there are roughly as many (or slightly more) 270deg racing games than 360deg ones.  All arcade driving games have used 270deg wheels for donkeys years.

I could see a yoke / 270 combo being a better product for most people.

I agree on this   As you say a SW yoke is good enough for drivers (for most people), but for a new product it would be nice to have a yoke, with a lockable y-axis for when playing 270deg drivers.  I think most people could live without this feature tho, as long as the yoke itself is a good product.