64bit Dual-Core or 32bit single??

[squirrellydw]

Correct me if I am wrong but it shouldn't make a much of a differences if I use a 64bit Dual-Core or 32bit single.  I have read the FAQ I just want to make sure.  I plan on playing mostly the classics but I also like Area51 and BLITZ but even the fastest CPU can't play BLITZ right?  So I would be better off going with a single right?

[MYX]

From the MAME website

M12. Does MAME benefit from SMP (symmetric multiprocessing) / HT (Hyper-Threading) / dual cores?

No. Emulation is a task that is very difficult to scale to multiple processors. Most of the time the emulated CPUs (if there are more than one) have to be in tight synchronization, and achieving this would outweigh any performance gain you would get.

Some tasks are well suited to being parallel, like eating lots of pizza. Others are not. You can't get a child in one month by having intercourse with nine women (in fact, if they find out, there is a significant risk you won't ever be able to have children...).

If you have two persons sorting beans and they need to check that they both sort at the exact same pace, both sorting one bean at the same time, it will take longer to sort the beans than if one person did it.

On the other hand, if you have two persons each unloading different trucks and they just have to start unloading the trucks at the same time, it will be much faster than if one person did it.

Very small tasks do not fit well into the multiprocessor way of thinking. The greatest benefit of a multi-CPU machine for MAME is that you can put MAME on one CPU and everything else on the other, freeing up some few percent of CPU power.

There of course has to be an exception - the Linux version of AdvanceMAME uses the second CPU to copy the graphics bitmap to the screen, but this is not a major speedup.

[krick]

I'm building a new computer for my MAME cab using an AMD Opteron 148 (64-bit, single core) overclocked to 2800MHz.  This is the same speed as an FX-57, which costs $800 more.

This is about as fast as it gets for MAME.

Dual cores actually run MAME slower based on some reports over on mame.net.

Some of the highest speed P4 processors can run certain games faster than my AMD, but they generate so much heat, they'll probably burst into flames when put inside a MAME cabinet.

Incidentally, I can *almost* run my CPU stable at 2900MHz with the stock heatsink and fan that comes with it.  I even picked up a Thermalright XP-120 cooler but the longest I could get it stable was a 12 hour run of Prime95. 

[squirrellydw]

This is the CPU I am looking to get

Code: [Select]

Brand Intel
Series Pentium 4
Model BX80546PG3000E
CPU Socket Type Socket 478
Core Prescott
Multi-Core Single-Core
Name Pentium 4 3.0E
Operating Frequency 3.0GHz
FSB 800MHz
L1 Cache 12KB+16KB
L2 Cache 1MB
Process Type 90 nm
Hyper-Threading Support Yes
64 bit Support No
Multimedia Instruction MMX, SSE, SSE2, SSE3
Voltage 1.25-1.525V
Cooling Device Heatsink and Fan

[krick]

Prescott CPUs run EXTREMELY hot.  If you're considering putting this in a closed arcade cabinet, this is something to consider.  Also, this generally means that they need a loud fan to keep them cool.  Nearly every customer review I find complains about the noisy fan.  Read some of the reviews of the Prescott 3.0 and see what they say.  If you can find a Northwood 3.0 at a similar price, I highly recommend you get it instead of the Prescott.

If this is for a dedicated MAME machine, you might want to consider turning Hyperthreading off.  I've seen reports that Hyperthreading causes performance problems with MAME.  Again, do some searching and see what you find.

Honestly, unless you already have an Intel motherboard in hand, I'd seriously consider getting an AMD Athlon 64 3200+ or faster.  The 3200+ consistently beats the prescott 3.0 in almost every benchmark.  And according to the MAME team, AMD processors usually run MAME faster on most games.

Let's look at prices on newegg, shall we...
The socket 478 Prescott 3.0  that you're looking at is $192
A socket 939 athlon 64 3200+ is $168

The really cool thing is that the latest 3200+ CPUs are great overclockers.  Most people easily get to 2.6 GHZ (FX-55 speeds), a lot get to 2.7GHz, and some even get to 2.8GHz (FX-57 speeds).  And this is with the stock cooler!!!

You can pretty much forget about overclocking a Prescott 3.0 without investing in some serious cooling.

Another thing to consider is that socket 478 is a dead end.  If you buy a socket 478 board and a Prescott 3.0.  You really don't have much in the way of upgrade options.  The highest you can go is to a 3.4GHz P4.

With a socket 939 board, you can upgrade to an FX-57 (single core) or an FX-60 (dual core).  And who knows, AMD may still make faster socket 939 cpus in the future.  478 is dead.  Intel isn't making any new cpus for it.

[squirrellydw]

Is this the one you are talking about $159.......
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819103535

Code: [Select]

Brand AMD
Series Athlon 64
Model ADA3200BPBOX
CPU Socket Type Socket 939
Core Venice
Multi-Core Single-Core
Name Athlon 64 3200+
Operating Frequency 2.0GHz
HT 1GHz
L1 Cache 64KB+64KB
L2 Cache 512KB
Process Type 90 nm
Hyper-Transport Support Yes
64 bit Support Yes
Multimedia Instruction MMX, SSE, SSE2, SSE3, 3DNOW! Professional
Voltage 1.35/1.4V
Cooling Device Heatsink and Fan
Manufacturer Warranty 3-Year
now for a motherboard
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16813131517

[krick]

What video card are you planning on using?

If you want to use an ArcadeVGA, you'll have to pick a board with an AGP slot.

What operating system do you plan on using?  If you're considering using Windows 98SE or ME, you'll have to pick a motherboard with a compatible chipset.  If you're going to use 2000 or XP, you can pick pretty much anything.

[SOAPboy]

Prescott CPUs run EXTREMELY hot.  If you're considering putting this in a closed arcade cabinet, this is something to consider.  Also, this generally means that they need a loud fan to keep them cool.  Nearly every customer review I find complains about the noisy fan.  Read some of the reviews of the Prescott 3.0 and see what they say.  If you can find a Northwood 3.0 at a similar price, I highly recommend you get it instead of the Prescott.

If this is for a dedicated MAME machine, you might want to consider turning Hyperthreading off.  I've seen reports that Hyperthreading causes performance problems with MAME.  Again, do some searching and see what you find.

Honestly, unless you already have an Intel motherboard in hand, I'd seriously consider getting an AMD Athlon 64 3200+ or faster.  The 3200+ consistently beats the prescott 3.0 in almost every benchmark.  And according to the MAME team, AMD processors usually run MAME faster on most games.

Let's look at prices on newegg, shall we...
The socket 478 Prescott 3.0  that you're looking at is $192
A socket 939 athlon 64 3200+ is $168

The really cool thing is that the latest 3200+ CPUs are great overclockers.  Most people easily get to 2.6 GHZ (FX-55 speeds), a lot get to 2.7GHz, and some even get to 2.8GHz (FX-57 speeds).  And this is with the stock cooler!!!

You can pretty much forget about overclocking a Prescott 3.0 without investing in some serious cooling.

Another thing to consider is that socket 478 is a dead end.  If you buy a socket 478 board and a Prescott 3.0.  You really don't have much in the way of upgrade options.  The highest you can go is to a 3.4GHz P4.

With a socket 939 board, you can upgrade to an FX-57 (single core) or an FX-60 (dual core).  And who knows, AMD may still make faster socket 939 cpus in the future.  478 is dead.  Intel isn't making any new cpus for it.

Um.....

Intels dont run THAT hot dude.. in fact, AMD is known to run hotter than intel, and its been that way for years..

Regardless, they arnt going to be running so hot there going to combust or melt down randomly.. 

As for overclocking them, lol.. My 2.8C and friend 2.8E both could get to 3.4 respectivly on STOCK cooling..

[krick]

Is this the one you are talking about $159.......
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819103535

Newegg has 2 different steppings of that CPU...
http://tinyurl.com/nddg7

The BP is the older E3 stepping.

The BW is the newer E6 stepping which has a better memory controller.

Obviously, the E6 model is more in demand so the price is higher.  I'm not sure if the stepping really effects you or not. 

I think the E3 and earlier steppings had problems running more than 2 sticks of memory at the full rated speed.

I don't recommend running more than 2 sticks of memory anyway.

[krick]

Prescott CPUs run EXTREMELY hot.  If you're considering putting this in a closed arcade cabinet, this is something to consider.  Also, this generally means that they need a loud fan to keep them cool.  Nearly every customer review I find complains about the noisy fan.  Read some of the reviews of the Prescott 3.0 and see what they say.  If you can find a Northwood 3.0 at a similar price, I highly recommend you get it instead of the Prescott.

Um.....

Intels dont run THAT hot dude.. in fact, AMD is known to run hotter than intel, and its been that way for years..

Regardless, they arnt going to be running so hot there going to combust or melt down randomly.. 

As for overclocking them, lol.. My 2.8C and friend 2.8E both could get to 3.4 respectivly on STOCK cooling..

You're completely wrong on the temperature thing.  Why do you think that Intel has abandoned the P4 core and moved to a whole new architecture based on the Pentium M core's technology?  Why do you think Intel came up with the BTX form factor and has been trying to push it as the new standard?  Why do you think that Intel has been researching water cooling for retail processors?  It's all about the heat problem.


I took my Opteron 148 up to 2.8GHz at the stock voltage with the stock cooler.  Under 100% load with the Prime95 torture test (in-place large FFT), the CPU temp stays under 45 degrees C.

What kind of CPU temps are you getting overclocked at 100% in the prime95 torture test (in-place large FFT)?

The main problem with the P4 and overheating is that when it gets too hot, it throttles the clock down to keep the CPU from crashing.  Of course, that kills the performance too.

Try running ThrottleWatch while you're running the Prime95 torture test (in-place large FFT) on your overclocked P4 and see if it throttles.

[SOAPboy]

Prescott CPUs run EXTREMELY hot.  If you're considering putting this in a closed arcade cabinet, this is something to consider.  Also, this generally means that they need a loud fan to keep them cool.  Nearly every customer review I find complains about the noisy fan.  Read some of the reviews of the Prescott 3.0 and see what they say.  If you can find a Northwood 3.0 at a similar price, I highly recommend you get it instead of the Prescott.

Um.....

Intels dont run THAT hot dude.. in fact, AMD is known to run hotter than intel, and its been that way for years..

Regardless, they arnt going to be running so hot there going to combust or melt down randomly.. 

As for overclocking them, lol.. My 2.8C and friend 2.8E both could get to 3.4 respectivly on STOCK cooling..

You're completely wrong on the temperature thing.  Why do you think that Intel has abandoned the P4 core and moved to a whole new architecture based on the Pentium M core's technology?  Why do you think Intel came up with the BTX form factor and has been trying to push it as the new standard?  Why do you think that Intel has been researching water cooling for retail processors?  It's all about the heat problem.


I took my Opteron 148 up to 2.8GHz at the stock voltage with the stock cooler.  Under 100% load with the Prime95 torture test (in-place large FFT), the CPU temp stays under 45 degrees C.

What kind of CPU temps are you getting overclocked at 100% in the prime95 torture test (in-place large FFT)?

The main problem with the P4 and overheating is that when it gets too hot, it throttles the clock down to keep the CPU from crashing.  Of course, that kills the performance too.

Try running ThrottleWatch while you're running the Prime95 torture test (in-place large FFT) on your overclocked P4 and see if it throttles.

lol, there dropping the P4 because 64 bit is the future, just like AMD is dropping the 32 bit athlons..

Gimme a break

[squirrellydw]

What video card are you planning on using?

If you want to use an ArcadeVGA, you'll have to pick a board with an AGP slot.

What operating system do you plan on using?  If you're considering using Windows 98SE or ME, you'll have to pick a motherboard with a compatible chipset.  If you're going to use 2000 or XP, you can pick pretty much anything.

Yes I will be using the ArcadeVGA card with the Billabs BL27CB0P  monitor.  I plan on using XP

Lets please not get into a CPU war, just what I asked.  thanks

[Havok]

Um.....

Intels dont run THAT hot dude.. in fact, AMD is known to run hotter than intel, and its been that way for years..

Regardless, they arnt going to be running so hot there going to combust or melt down randomly.. 

As for overclocking them, lol.. My 2.8C and friend 2.8E both could get to 3.4 respectivly on STOCK cooling..

Old info - that used to be the case with AMD cpus. Now AMD has Intel beat on speed and temperature...

My 2 cents - check out a Sempron - I just picked up mobo and CPU for $140 - PCIe and 3300+ so far it has run everything that I normally play lovely...

[krick]

My 2 cents - check out a Sempron - I just picked up mobo and CPU for $140 - PCIe and 3300+ so far it has run everything that I normally play lovely...

He can't use a PCIe motherboard if he wants to use an ArcadeVGA since it's only available as an AGP card.
(well, with the exception of the boards based on the ULi M1695 that have both PCIe *and* AGP)

Here's a newegg search for all the socket 939 motherboards with AGP slots sorted by rating...

http://tinyurl.com/gzhmf

[pointdablame]

If you're looking to buy the "fastest" CPU you can, I'd steer clear of the Semprons.  They aren't bad chips at all, but you can get an A64 for not much more.  As for those combos, they'll work fine for a budget system, but more times than not, the motherboards in those packs are total garbage.  You pay for the chip, and then get the mobo for like an extra $20.  Not worth it in my opinion if you know you'll be using the computer a lot, and especially if you'll be playing games on it.

And without getting into the CPU pissing match:  AMD Athlon XP CPUs ran substantially warmer than P4's and the A64 chips run cooler than the P4s.  Read up on reviews if you want more info.

So if you're worried about heat:  A64 > P4 > AXP... but really, that's only one small thing to consider when buying a CPU.

[Havok]

My 2 cents - check out a Sempron - I just picked up mobo and CPU for $140 - PCIe and 3300+ so far it has run everything that I normally play lovely...

He can't use a PCIe motherboard if he wants to use an ArcadeVGA since it's only available as an AGP card.
(well, with the exception of the boards based on the ULi M1695 that have both PCIe *and* AGP)

True about the ArcadeVGA, just stating what I have. Since I had a used PCIe video card, that's what I used. Just swap out a mobo with AGP.

Granted, the Sempron is not the fastest on the block, but it is the most budget minded. You still get quite a bit of performance, and for much less. Plus, they overclock well (like all AMDs) so you can boost it up another 15% reliably.

If this is going to be an arcade only pc (since we are talking ArcadeVGA) does one really need the fastest pc out there anyways? I doubt the games that can't play on a Sempron 3400+ are not going to be that much better on an Athlon 64.

Now, if you are talking pc games, like Fear, etc (which we are not - since an ArcadeVGA was mentioned) then, yes, go Athlon 64...

[Gatt]

Dual cores actually run MAME slower based on some reports over on mame.net.

I've been running a Dual Core for awhile with MAME myself,  4200+.

In general,  if I assign affinity to the second core,  MAME will pick up about 1-2 fps.  Nothing major,  and it really doesn't make anything playable that isn't already playable.

MAME isn't a program that lends itself to parallelization,  and is very speed dependent,  so Dual Core will likely never make that big of a difference.

Dual Core if you plan to use the machine for more than just MAME,  single core at the highest speed you can afford if it's going to be MAME only.

[squirrellydw]

ok, I think I will get this CPU and this MB
CPU  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16819103572

MB    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16813131541

So correct me if I am wrong.  I am going to use the ArcadeVGA card with the Billabs BL27CB0P, does that mean I can't play PC based games, like Tiger Woods Golf?  My main goal is to play the mame classics and some laserdick games if I can, PC games would just be a nice benefit.

Thanks for the help guys, I hope to have some pictures soon.  I should be able to start to put the cabinet together next week.

[Havok]

My main goal is to play the mame classics and some laserdick games if I can

Hey, now - so you like teh pr0n?

 

Seriously, though - if pc games are in your future, a 939 board is the right choice. Lot's up upgradeability with just a CPU swap.

[squirrellydw]

Seriously, though - if pc games are in your future, a 939 board is the right choice. Lot's up upgradeability with just a CPU swap.

But I can't use the AracdeVGA with PC games correct?

[krick]

Seriously, though - if pc games are in your future, a 939 board is the right choice. Lot's up upgradeability with just a CPU swap.

But I can't use the AracdeVGA with PC games correct?

You can play games at 640x480 or 800x600 interlaced.

 

[squirrellydw]

or 1024x768 since my monitor supports it correct?  that would be cool

[krick]

or 1024x768 since my monitor supports it correct?  that would be cool

You have a wells gardner D9200 tri-sync arcade monitor?

If so, then I think you can enable higher resolutions on the arcade vga.

Someone else will probably chime in with more info.

[squirrellydw]

Plan on getting the Billabs BL27CB0P
http://www.billabs.com/bl27cb0p.htm

[Havok]

Plan on getting the Billabs BL27CB0P
http://www.billabs.com/bl27cb0p.htm

That should be allow you to enjoy the classics in all their glory at the lower refresh rates, and give you an acceptable pc experience. Sounds like a good start to a good machine.

[Matt Berry]

Pretty much every CPU available now is 64 bit. An AMD on 939 would be your best bet 3700+ or a 4000+, both have 1mb L2 cache vs 512kb on most other processors. The upgradability factor is not very big for 939 as it is going to be replaced by M2 by this summer.

I also have to address Soapboy who probably believes that his P4 @ 2.8 can outperform the AMD 939 clocked at 2.8 or higher. The AMD 64 will blow your processor away, hands down. It also does run a lot cooler. Under full load my processor averages 32-34c. This is on a 4000+ @ 2.7. Prime95 tested for 120 hours. Even my old 3200+ barton wouldn't break 35c. All of these are air cooled, using upgraded heatsinks and artic silver 5.

If heat wasn't an issue intel wouldn't be dropping the P4 architecture and pushing performance per watt, instead of overall speed. The nice thing is my CPU will be a top performer for at least another year as neither Intel or AMD will be really pushing speed increases untill the end of the year.

[krick]

My current MAME computer is pretty much the end of the line.
MAME doesn't like dual cores, ArcadeVGA needs an AGP slot, and I'm partial to Windows98SE / DOS...


Motherboard: ASUS A8V Deluxe rev2.0 (VIA K8T800Pro + VT8237 chipset)

The VIA K8T800Pro is the last modern AGP chipset to fully support Windows 98SE.

This board has two serial ports, one onboard, one you need a bracket (sold separately).  Dual serial ports are nice if I decide to run DOS with dual trackballs on my Opti-PAC.  Most modern motherboards only have one serial port.

This board supports all socket 939 CPUs currently available.  There probably won't be any more anyway due to Socket AM2 around the corner.

CPU: Opteron 148 (2.2GHz)
This CPU is a single core part, and features 1MB cache.  It overclocks easily to 2.8GHz at the default voltage and is rock stable under Prime95.  I can get it to 2.9GHz but it only lasts about 12 hours under full load before getting an error in Prime95.  I can boot into windows at nearly 3.0GHz but it's not stable.  Bumping up the voltage doesn't seem to have any effect on the stability.  I think my motherboard is the limiting factor.

Memory: Crucial Ballistix PC3200 1GB (512M x 2 sticks)
This memory runs at low 2-2-2 timings though I can't get it to run 1:1 at 2.8GHz due to the high base clock speed.  Luckily, running a memory divider has almost no effect on AMD systems performance so  I leave the memory settings on "Auto" and it just works.

Incidentally, 1GB is plenty for every game currently in MAME and Windows 98SE doesn't really support more than 1GB anyway.