Author Topic: Super bright LED driver board for I-PAC (Read 16699 times)

OSCAR · « **on:** February 20, 2003, 08:39:01 pm »

On my cabinet that I've been (occasionally) working on over the past 9 months I'm using an I-PAC and I also wanted super bright LEDS. This means I needed a driver circuit for it.

Well, I finished the LED driver board for my MAME cab and I documented it here:

www.oscarcontrols.com/led

Hopefully this can help out somebody who may considering a similar project.

Thanks to Erik Ruud and Carsten Carlos for documenting their projects! I had to have illuminated buttons on my newest project after seeing Eriks!

SirPoonga · « **Reply #1 on:** February 20, 2003, 09:28:46 pm »

woohoo, no more guessing, no more LED calculators, all the parts form one place ready to go:)

CM · « **Reply #2 on:** February 20, 2003, 09:30:19 pm »

Excellent write-up and diagrams. This is going in my "to-do" list

SirPoonga · « **Reply #3 on:** February 20, 2003, 10:00:44 pm »

See, cabinets are NEVER finished!

1UP · « **Reply #4 on:** February 21, 2003, 12:12:00 am »

Hey Oscar, my LED board is almost the same, except with Molex connector plugs instead of screw terminals. Good idea though...might have to do mine the same way!

Carsten Carlos · « **Reply #5 on:** February 21, 2003, 02:44:36 am »

Oscar, you are welcome!

Say, some day I must get the same digicam you got - you always've the niecest picture of glowing things! (monitors, LED-buttons...)

You are the very first person I've ever seen making colored circuit-diagrams

Very good idea, you never know how often you'll need additional 5V-lines! Oops, I mean LED-lines, on first sight I oversaw the multi-resistor!

As I'll have more then one controlpanel, I decided to include the resistor for the LED (these are the ones directly for the screwing-terminal) on the panels itself, as I might choose different LED-types.

Carsten Carlos · « **Reply #6 on:** February 21, 2003, 02:50:31 am »

Nice meeting, we're at least three here from the good ol' LED-buttons-thread, anyone wanna a beer?

(I'm just happy 'cause my cab is finally able to play

)

1UP · « **Reply #7 on:** February 21, 2003, 03:02:12 am »

OOPS...

I havent used my I-PAC LEDs for a while, just plugged the harness back in to check it out, and the LEDS don't blink anymore!

Under Windows 2000, when I go to play a game that uses start button LEDs (Pac-Man etc) and "insert coins," the LED harness lights do not blink. However, I can see the keyboard LEDs blinking.

The strange thing is, when I press Caps Lock, Num Lock etc, the LEDs on the harness light up (steadily with no blink) as expected. This works whether I am in a game or not. Also, the problem arises in 2 different versions of Mame.

Hey guys, please let me know if this is an issue you are aware of, and how I might fix it. The LEDs used to work properly, I'm not sure what could have caused them to stop.

BTW, I'm having the same problems whether I use the LED driver board or just the LED harness with the original LEDs installed...

PS, I already emailed Andy, but he's usually a bit busy...

Thanks

cdbrown · « **Reply #8 on:** February 21, 2003, 03:02:40 am »

That's awesome Oscar. I had pretty much given up on the whole LED thing as I was getting far too carried away with it (lights under every button) Carsten can confirm this. I think I could even make something from that write up and I have no idea about electrics.

The desire for lights under the buttons is slowly returning.....

Cheers
-cdbrown

Carsten Carlos · « **Reply #9 on:** February 21, 2003, 05:05:52 am »

Quote from: 1UP on February 21, 2003, 03:02:12 am

The strange thing is, when I press Caps Lock, Num Lock etc, the LEDs on the harness light up (steadily with no blink) as expected. This works whether I am in a game or not.

Whee, that really sounds strange!
Some stupid things I'd try (If this would work I wouldn't know why):

Are you using USB or PS2? Try the other connection (and don't forget the jumper-setting

)

I bet you know, but at some point they added (at least in MAME32) an option to disable the led-blinking-feature. Who on earth would do this?

Anyway, also might be worth a checking.

As the LED-harness does work when pressing NUM-lock,... the I-Pac should be ok I guess.

SirPoonga · « **Reply #10 on:** February 21, 2003, 05:52:43 am »

I have another weird anomoly.

When I had a computer in my cabinet the leds worked fine, both keyboard and ipac.

On this machine however, the keyboard leds don't work (not surewhat would happen if I hook up an IPAC). The lights work when I press caps lock, etc...

Oh well.

OSCAR · « **Reply #11 on:** February 21, 2003, 06:52:52 am »

Thanks for the comments, guys! I figured that more people must have been making these since super bright LED's seem to be the fashion lately, but Carsten's site was the only one I've come across so far that actually showed how he did it. That's one reason why I documented mine like I did (with a colored diagram!

).

Hmmm, strange problem, 1UP. Like Carlos says, if they work when you push the keys on the pass-thru keyboard, then I would suspect it's a software issue...

1UP · « **Reply #12 on:** February 21, 2003, 12:52:21 pm »

Well...I figured it out late last night. Plugged the I-PAC into my XP machine, and the LEDs worked. Guess it's some issue with Windows 2000. Only thing I can think of is to install XP on my cab again... (Guess that's why it used to work.)

One weird thing that still happens: when the LEDs blink, the keyboard ones blink at regular intervals, while the I-PAC ones randomly miss blinks (the LEDs stay on or off steadily for 2 blinks.) Is this normal for the I-PAC? I could swear that when I got it, the blinks were nice and regular... Maybe I've done too much experimenting with it?

ErikRuud · « **Reply #13 on:** February 21, 2003, 02:07:32 pm »

Oscar, Thanks for the excellent write up. So far I have only wired up the Player start buttons. Looking at this has re-motivated me to add the rest of the lites to my panel.

Oh and thanks for the plug!

MrBond · « **Reply #14 on:** February 21, 2003, 09:38:39 pm »

Wow, thanks Oscar, this has sparked an interest...eventually I'll have to try the LED deal.
Those buttons just look so cool!!

OSCAR · « **Reply #15 on:** February 22, 2003, 01:47:14 am »

Quote from: ErikRuud on February 21, 2003, 02:07:32 pm

Looking at this has re-motivated me to add the rest of the lites to my panel.

Motivate, motivate, motivate... that's the name of the game!

Quote

Oh and thanks for the plug!

And thank you for adding an extra week or so to my project! At this point, I'm not even keeping track anymore...

Xphile · « **Reply #16 on:** February 22, 2003, 02:05:20 am »

Quote from: OSCAR on February 22, 2003, 01:47:14 am

Quote from: ErikRuud on February 21, 2003, 02:07:32 pm
Looking at this has re-motivated me to add the rest of the lites to my panel.

Motivate, motivate, motivate... that's the name of the game!

Quote
Oh and thanks for the plug!

And thank you for adding an extra week or so to my project! At this point, I'm not even keeping track anymore...

Oscar, I just gotta say, you are one of the kindest BYOAc guys I know of...a lot of other folks may see an opportunity to sell a schematic, or a set of detailed plans, but in every thread you participate in, you are looking for a solution or asking questions that benefits all of us,,thank you..

that may be the six pack talkin', but the sentiment remains the same..:-)
ttfn,
x

OSCAR · « **Reply #17 on:** February 22, 2003, 02:22:39 am »

Quote from: Xphile on February 22, 2003, 02:05:20 am

Oscar, I just gotta say, you are one of the kindest BYOAc guys I know of...a lot of other folks may see an opportunity to sell a schematic, or a set of detailed plans, but in every thread you participate in, you are looking for a solution or asking questions that benefits all of us,,thank you..

that may be the six pack talkin', but the sentiment remains the same..:-)
ttfn,
x

I appreciate your comments very much. Really. I haven't completely turned to the Dark Side yet.

I'm still a hobbyist/enthusiast first, the business is second. Hopefully than doesn't offend anybody or dissuade people from purchasing products from me, but that's how I started and I don't intend to change!

Positive feedback such as this only encourages me to keep documenting and experimenting. Thanks again!

SirPoonga · « **Reply #18 on:** February 23, 2003, 12:36:30 am »

Quote from: Xphile on February 22, 2003, 02:05:20 am

Oscar, I just gotta say, you are one of the kindest BYOAc guys I know of...a lot of other folks may see an opportunity to sell a schematic, or a set of detailed plans, but in every thread you participate in, you are looking for a solution or asking questions that benefits all of us,,thank you..

that may be the six pack talkin', but the sentiment remains the same..:-)
ttfn,
x

Yeah, Kelsey is awesome. He and I are working on something right now. I am *this* close to getting the mame hack working. We plan on producing schematics for making a qbert knocker. Actually, the schematics are already out there, but I suck at reading them. Kelsey agreed to make it for me if I do the mame hack for him:) Just a normal parallel port relay driver. USB drivers are EXPENSIVE, though we both would rather see that.

The schematic could can control 8 relays. Actually, if someone knew how to control do microcontroller programming you could control 256 relays since there is 8 data lines on the parallel port. (USB would be simular) Would involve alot of hacking mame, but some relay cool custom hardware could be made.

If someone has or wants mroe info PM me (not kelsy, he gets enough I am sure). As this was more my idea than his, he's just being nice and implementing the hardware for me:)

Carsten Carlos · « **Reply #19 on:** February 24, 2003, 02:25:40 am »

Quote

USB drivers are EXPENSIVE

Yep, I'm currently ending up with approximately $55 - without relais but 12 combined input/outputs and even 4bit-regulators on every port. (e.g. for controlling LED-intensity)
VisualBasic-Code included.

Leaves enough room for future ideas!

1UP · « **Reply #20 on:** February 24, 2003, 12:51:16 pm »

Quote from: SirPoonga on February 23, 2003, 12:36:30 am

Yeah, Kelsey is awesome. He and I are working on something right now. I am *this* close to getting the mame hack working. We plan on producing schematics for making a qbert knocker. Actually, the schematics are already out there, but I suck at reading them. Kelsey agreed to make it for me if I do the mame hack for him:) Just a normal parallel port relay driver. USB drivers are EXPENSIVE, though we both would rather see that.

The schematic could can control 8 relays. Actually, if someone knew how to control do microcontroller programming you could control 256 relays since there is 8 data lines on the parallel port. (USB would be simular) Would involve alot of hacking mame, but some relay cool custom hardware could be made.

If someone has or wants mroe info PM me (not kelsy, he gets enough I am sure). As this was more my idea than his, he's just being nice and implementing the hardware for me:)

AIEEE!!

How did you guys know I was working on this!

Well, so much for 1UPControls... I was going to try marketing both of these products (LED board AND relay board) but you guys beat me to it!! Oh well...

I'm still interested in what you guys are doing. I'd like to get my T2 guns up and running again!

SirPoonga · « **Reply #21 on:** February 24, 2003, 04:17:11 pm »

Quote from: 1UP on February 24, 2003, 12:51:16 pm

AIEEE!! How did you guys know I was working on this! Well, so much for 1UPControls... I was going to try marketing both of these products (LED board AND relay board) but you guys beat me to it!! Oh well...

I'm still interested in what you guys are doing. I'd like to get my T2 guns up and running again!

Actually, it's been discusses a long time ago too.

I think I have the mame hack working, won't know until I can get some hardware to test:)

BTW, you still could market a relay board, but schematics are free on the internet anyways:)

DZuroff · « **Reply #22 on:** February 24, 2003, 08:33:16 pm »

Holy smokes! Do you realize that even though I currently own a KE72 that has not yet been used I am now seriously considering buying an Ipac so I can have the led feature?? Great work Kelsey! And thanks for encouraging me to spend more money!!

MannyTC · « **Reply #23 on:** February 24, 2003, 11:49:37 pm »

Quote from: DZuroff on February 24, 2003, 08:33:16 pm

Holy smokes! Do you realize that even though I currently own a KE72 that has not yet been used I am now seriously considering buying an Ipac so I can have the led feature?? Great work Kelsey! And thanks for encouraging me to spend more money!!

The KE72 is supposed to have the LED feature built in.

I have a KE72-T that I purchased when it first came out and have now dusted off the box to use it. I had trouble programming it in XP and I contacted Hagstrom. I also asked them about the LED feature because I thought I heard here that it was an available upgrade years ago. They said it is built into the KE72 and they told me to send my KE72 in to them and they would test, verify and upgrade the programming for me to the latest revision. They also have a new version of the command line programming software that works in 2000/XP that they are sending me. I don't see any reason why you could not make an LED driver board using Oscar's approach on a KE72.

Sasquatch! · « **Reply #24 on:** February 25, 2003, 11:05:29 pm »

Oscar, thanks for yet another fantastic contribution to this board! And for adding more work to my @#$% cabinet!

MannyTC: Really - the KE72 supports LED? I was thinking the same thing as DZuroff, but now I might have to email Hagstrom and see about this. Thanks for the tip!

MannyTC · « **Reply #25 on:** February 25, 2003, 11:19:39 pm »

Quote from: Sasquatch! on February 25, 2003, 11:05:29 pm

MannyTC: Really - the KE72 supports LED? I was thinking the same thing as DZuroff, but now I might have to email Hagstrom and see about this. Thanks for the tip!

I sent in my KE72 to Hagstrom today. They said they will send the instructions on hooking up the LEDs when they return it. Will let you know.

Sasquatch! · « **Reply #26 on:** February 26, 2003, 08:58:10 pm »

So what buttons are you guys (Oscar and Erik Ruud) using anyway? I have Happ Horiztonal Pushbuttons, and the guts don't look a thing like your pics.

OSCAR · « **Reply #27 on:** February 26, 2003, 11:51:44 pm »

Quote from: Sasquatch! on February 26, 2003, 08:58:10 pm

So what buttons are you guys (Oscar and Erik Ruud) using anyway? I have Happ Horiztonal Pushbuttons, and the guts don't look a thing like your pics.

The red button and the P1 button in my pics are Happ Horizontals. The P2 button is a Wico.

Not directly related to your question, but I figure worth mentioning... There are a couple of differences between the Happ Horizontals and the Wico buttons, but nothing that would affect the mounting of the LED. The Wico button is about a 1/4" shorter (but still fits fine in 3/4" wood), and the "prongs" that hold the m'switch is shaped a bit differently. The Wico is a bit off-white in color compared to the Happ button, and the Wico seems to be made from a more dense or higher durometer plastic. The Wico has a more pronounced "dish-shape" to it and has a longer throw than the Happ. Overall, I actually prefer the Wico's for a classic style cab, but fighters probably won't like them at all.

Important - I hate the m'switches that Wico supplies with their buttons. They are a medium force Omron that IMO sucks for buttons! I can't believe they haven't had enough complaints to change that. I put a light force Cherry in them like Happ, and then I have a winner!

Here's a few comparison pics:
http://www.oscarcontrols.com/tmp/buttons_wico-happ1.jpg
http://www.oscarcontrols.com/tmp/buttons_wico-happ2.jpg
http://www.oscarcontrols.com/tmp/buttons_wico-happ3.jpg

Sasquatch! · « **Reply #28 on:** February 27, 2003, 12:00:38 am »

Quote from: OSCAR on February 26, 2003, 11:51:44 pm

Here's a few comparison pics:
http://www.oscarcontrols.com/tmp/buttons_wico-happ1.jpg
http://www.oscarcontrols.com/tmp/buttons_wico-happ2.jpg
http://www.oscarcontrols.com/tmp/buttons_wico-happ3.jpg

Those pictures actually cleared up my question of how you actually mounted the LEDs in, so thanks!!

OSCAR · « **Reply #29 on:** February 27, 2003, 12:15:37 am »

I'm glad the photos were helpful.

Instead of using the plastic collars, I just drilled the center of the button for the LED itself. The super bright T1-3/4 I used had a body diameter of .197" (I've seen T1-3/4's range from .180" - .200", so check your specs). I used a #11 drill (.191") for the hole, and the LED's fit very snug. I wouldn't want them any tighter, I was kind of surprised I didn't break any while installing them.

Brax · « **Reply #30 on:** February 27, 2003, 10:50:01 am »

Hmm, for not being a very "popular option" when we were discussing the keywiz, it sure seems to be popular now! Glad to see it. I knew it would become more popular once people saw how slick it looked when mounted using that method. This is a constantly evolving hobby and more and more people will jump on the band wagon of certain ideas once they see them implemented. I could see this was an idea that would spark peoples interest in the future.... Good work Kelsey. The use of the LEDs will only become more common in the future. Very nice to see.

I like the look of the white LED's in the white player buttons myself. It looks very "factory". I'll be adding those on my own project. Thanks again.

I wonder how it would look to have the coloured buttons constantly lit with the corresponding coloured LED. Might be an interesting effect to have a slight glow to them. Hmmm, the power requirements of my cabinet are really starting to increase!!! I think my unofficial goal is to have the lights in my house brown out when I turn this beast on!

RandyT · « **Reply #31 on:** February 27, 2003, 01:34:23 pm »

Quote from: Brax on February 27, 2003, 10:50:01 am

The use of the LEDs will only become more common in the future.

I sure hope so.....I don't want all my hard work to be for nothing

RandyT

DZuroff · « **Reply #32 on:** February 27, 2003, 04:22:32 pm »

Thanks for the tip on the KE-72! Time to get ahold of Hagstrom.

SirPoonga · « **Reply #33 on:** February 27, 2003, 05:49:25 pm »

Quote from: Brax on February 27, 2003, 10:50:01 am

Hmm, for not being a very "popular option" when we were discussing the keywiz, it sure seems to be popular now! Glad to see it. I knew it would become more popular once people saw how slick it looked when mounted using that method. This is a constantly evolving hobby and more and more people will jump on the band wagon of certain ideas once they see them implemented. I could see this was an idea that would spark peoples interest in the future.... Good work Kelsey. The use of the LEDs will only become more common in the future. Very nice to see.

I like the look of the white LED's in the white player buttons myself. It looks very "factory". I'll be adding those on my own project. Thanks again.

I wonder how it would look to have the coloured buttons constantly lit with the corresponding coloured LED. Might be an interesting effect to have a slight glow to them. Hmmm, the power requirements of my cabinet are really starting to increase!!! I think my unofficial goal is to have the lights in my house brown out when I turn this beast on!

Actually LEDS have always been popular, that's why the IAC has it one. There's just spurts of when people talk about it.
This thread, until recently, was on the top ten viewed topic. Hey, look who started it last march

http://www.arcadecontrols.org/yabbse/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=663;start=0

Sasquatch! · « **Reply #34 on:** March 11, 2003, 08:12:03 pm »

M-M-M-MONSTER BUMP!

I actually have a question about the driver that OSCAR built: Why the separate 5V power supply? Doesn't the IPAC supply 5V? Just curious (and yes, I am an LED dummy).

RandyT · « **Reply #35 on:** March 11, 2003, 08:17:48 pm »

Quote from: Sasquatch! on March 11, 2003, 08:12:03 pm

M-M-M-MONSTER BUMP!

I actually have a question about the driver that OSCAR built: Why the separate 5V power supply? Doesn't the IPAC supply 5V? Just curious (and yes, I am an LED dummy).

I could let OSCAR answer this one...........Nahhh!

It's because you have a limited amount of current available on any device that plugs into a PS/2 or USB port. The way the LED board was designed, you have all the +5 power of the power supply (less what the computer uses

) available for LEDs without worrying about blowing your keyboard fuse.

RandyT

Sasquatch! · « **Reply #36 on:** March 11, 2003, 08:33:14 pm »

Quote from: RandyT on March 11, 2003, 08:17:48 pm

It's because you have a limited amount of current available on any device that plugs into a PS/2 or USB port. The way the LED board was designed, you have all the +5 power of the power supply (less what the computer uses ) available for LEDs without worrying about blowing your keyboard fuse.

Ah, since the IPAC gets its 5V from either the PS/2 port or the USB port, right? Gotcha. Danke!

By the way, RandyT, my initial posting that said that the Hagstrom KE72 puts out 1.5ma of current was WRONG (even though that was a direct quote from Hagstrom, dammit!)...the KE72 puts out 8.0 ma:
http://www.arcadecontrols.org/yabbse/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=5322

Dak-ak · « **Reply #37 on:** March 13, 2003, 06:52:17 am »

Quote from: SirPoonga on February 23, 2003, 12:36:30 am

The schematic could can control 8 relays. Actually, if someone knew how to control do microcontroller programming you could control 256 relays since there is 8 data lines on the parallel port. (USB would be simular) Would involve alot of hacking mame, but some relay cool custom hardware could be made.

im not an electronics genius (far from it), and ive probably missed the boat on this one, but heres my experience trying to control "high voltage" stepper motor (much higher voltage and draw then the TTL lines could provide). i think what oscar created with his diagram is a "darlington array" (so ive heard them called) a ULN2003 will work great for this project.

(this diagram is for stepper motors... if you charge line 3 on the left side with +5v, line 14 on the right recieves the +12v... it will control 7 different lines)

the idea is you use low voltage (or is it draw?) inputs to trigger high voltage outputs. With some pnp resistors, you should be able to form some AND gates to use the control and data lines of a parallel port (one to the base, and one to the emittor... only charge the collector when they are both lit up, right? im not taught in electronics, so this is mainly guesses, but thats diffenitly what oscars diagram makes me think). Using those, you can then control one or two or three uln2003's to control all the leds. I think. :-) (hafta try and give back to BYOAC any way i can)...

~Dak~

Frostillicus · « **Reply #38 on:** March 30, 2003, 02:04:55 pm »

Ok old thread, but I have a question about this since I'm transistor clueless here...

Does the common ground in this circuit get hooked to the IPAC ground, too? All I see in the diagram are the three wires coming from the scroll lock, numlock, etc.

Also, would it be possible to use a 13.8V power supply instead of 5V? Or is that too much voltage to put on the emitter?

Thanks!

OSCAR · « **Reply #39 on:** March 30, 2003, 02:18:04 pm »

No ground wires go back to the I-PAC in my circuit. Only the LED signal wires (Num/Caps/Scroll) are connected to the circuit. If you aren't using a PC power supply hook up like I did, then you can go back to the I-PAC ground for the LED's cathode instead of connecting it somewhere else if it is more convenient.

You can use 13.8V, but the resistors in line with the LED's will have to be adjusted accordingly. I believe the emitter/collector voltage rating for these transistors is around 30V or more. A Google search should turn up a data sheet for the specific transistor you plan to use.


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