Easier, Safer Keyboard hack

[USSEnterprise]

here's the catch: You need a "clicky" keyboard. Most of them used a solid PCB for all the key switches. These switches each have two visible, large solder points on the rear of the PCB. Solder wires to these points. Attach wires to buttons. Hurray!

[Tahnok]

Have you actually hacked one of these and gotten it working? I don't recall any of these keyboards having connectors that would work with modern computers.

[USSEnterprise]

I got it to work, yes. Most clicky keyboards use the AT connector

These have identical wiring to standard PS/2 keyboards, and can be converted using one of these

[Tahnok]

I didn't realize they used the same wiring. I have a few of those keyboards sitting around; maybe I will take a look inside. Thanks for the tip.

[Tiger-Heli]

May still have ghosting or blocking issues that may or may not be overcome with diodes.

[USSEnterprise]

All I've played so far on it is Pac-Man, so I'm not sure

[Jess--]

I am still using those (old) clicky keyboards...

The solid IBM ones with a nice steel chassis in them, and gold plated switch contacts.

I have tried using other keyboards, but they die after about 3 months use with me, these IBM ones just will not die :@)

(I also use one of the original microsoft intellimouse, again indestructible)

[Tiger-Heli]

All I've played so far on it is Pac-Man, so I'm not sure

You will NEVER see it with Pac-Man - ghosting/blocking can ONLY occur when at least three keys are pressed simultaneously (so at least a diagonal and one button).  You will see it in Street Fighter, though.

Basic test is to run ghostkey, press as many buttons as you plan to have on your panel and make sure all the key register and no stray keys register.

If the keyboard is old enough, it may not suffer from this.

I explain it in detail at http://www.mameworld.net/emuadvice/keyhack2.html, but the same methods I mention there also work with newer keyboards, so not much is gained.

[F1r3f1ght3r]

HACK A CLICKY?!?!? are you daft?

I still use them at home and at work... not only are they good for typing but should I ever need a weapon.... I'm covered.

[shardian]

I would be very interested in this! So, do these keyboards still use a matrix, or no? Do you have pictures of the innards of the keyboards. It seems hard to believe that it could be that easy. If it was, there would be no use for keyboard encoders.

[Tiger-Heli]

I would be very interested in this! So, do these keyboards still use a matrix, or no?

I'm pretty sure they do - only b/c you need 101 keys and a 12x9 matrix would be easier to support than 101 direct inputs for no gain.

If they are older than around 1988-1991, they may not use blocking, which means you could get more than 18-20 inputs without ghosting thru judicious use of diodes.

Do you have pictures of the innards of the keyboards. It seems hard to believe that it could be that easy. If it was, there would be no use for keyboard encoders.

No offense, but you need to read up more on the hobby -

The KeyWiz Eco no-solder from GGG is $23 with 32 inputs, 24 shifted inputs, programmable through software, and I can just cut up a IDE HD cable and pop it onto the pin header.

With this, I still have to solder wires to two places for each input that I want to use, performance will not be as good, and if I want to play MAME and another program that can't be reassigned to MAME defaults, I'm screwed . . .

[shardian]

I don't believe you understood my statement. If these keyboards did not use a matrix, then they would be superior to keyboard encoders. Like I said, I find it hard to believe it would be that easy. If the only benefit of these keyboards is solder points, then it isn't worth my time to track one down and buy an adapter.

[Fozzy The Bear]

I don't believe you understood my statement. If these keyboards did not use a matrix, then they would be superior to keyboard encoders. Like I said, I find it hard to believe it would be that easy. If the only benefit of these keyboards is solder points, then it isn't worth my time to track one down and buy an adapter.

If you already have one going spare and want to spend a vast number of hours with a soldering iron then it might be worth it. But you will still get key ghosting and some blocking.

The most cost and time effective way is to buy a key encoder designed for the job.  http://www.groovygamegear.com IMHO the best value bang for buck encoders and at a more or less pocket money price. KeyWiz Eco2 with the no solder option takes a lot of beating.

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)

[Tiger-Heli]

I don't believe you understood my statement.

I'm pretty sure I did, I'm not sure you understood my reply.

If these keyboards did not use a matrix, then they would be superior to keyboard encoders.

Only in the fact that you would have 101 total available inputs instead of 32 with a KeyWiz or 56 with an I-PAC/4.

Let's say you get one of these keyboards and wire P1B1 to L Ctrl for use with MAME.  Now you want to play some PC app (say a pinball app) that uses Z for P1B1 and can't be reassigned.

You have the following options:

Reconfig MAME so Z is P1B1 and redo your hack (won't work if you run into two apps that you can't re-assign keys in).

Redo your hack so P1B1 is connected to Z before playing pinball, and back to L Ctrl before playing MAME. (Inconvenient to spend 15 minutes with a soldering iron before playing a different game).

Add an additional button on your panel for Z along with the L Ctrl button (could potentially end up with 101 buttons on your CP - not much better than a standard keyboard).

OTOH, with a commercial encoder -

You create a MAME config file with L Ctrl as Terminal 1, and a Pinball config file with Z as Terminal 1, write a software batch file that reprograms the encoder before launching Pinball and programs it back on exit, and then forget about it.

Like I said, I find it hard to believe it would be that easy. If the only benefit of these keyboards is solder points, then it isn't worth my time to track one down and buy an adapter.

That's what we are trying to tell you.  It isn't worth your time, in the vast majority of cases.

[USSEnterprise]

I'll do another later tonight. I'll take pictures