How hard is it to use a cad program?

[mccoy178]

I have access to a cnc router if I have my plans made.  What does it take to use one of those programs?  Do I take a bunch of 3 dimensional boxes and put them together?  Any insight would be greatly appreciated.  I will do a google search in the meantime.  I asked here because I'm using it for my jukebox and arcade machines, so I thought someone may have gone this route.

[elvis]

Every CAD package is different.  You're essentially asking "how long is a piece of string?".

Can you narrow it down a little?

[mccoy178]

Yeah I can.  I want to design my jukebox using a cad program.  I am unaware of the different options out there.  I suppose that in this forum I am asking for anyone who has used a cad program to design something, what the program was, and what level of training I would need to use such a program.  It appears to be a program that is reasonably easy to use or it could be crazy hard.  I am just wondering what others have experienced. 
It is just an opinion based question.  I'm not asking for some supreme answer.  More of a, this is what I did, you may want to try this kind of thing.  I think of this topic much like the first time I heard of torrents and news groups.  I just had no idea how they worked or what they were about.  Does that help to explain where I'm at and what I'm looking for?

[DrewKaree]

Do you already have a CAD program you are able to use.

If so, what is the name of it.

If not, note that as well.

What type of CNC router do you have access to.

I don't have any answers for you since I'm just barely able to draw my name correctly, but those are some questions I'd think would be helpful for more help or opinions.  I guess it'd be like someone asking "my door is hanging crooked, how can I fix that without trimming it"  

[mccoy178]

I do not have a program.  I will have more details tomorrow.  Stop making me not be lazy.  Geeeeez.

[muell67]

The most popular Cad program would definately be autocad. Ive been using it for about seven years full time and I still learn stuff almost every day. Its not to hard to start using but very dificult to master. If your wanting to program for a cnc I would recomend you draw in autocad then program with MasterCam. Its the most popular cam program, I wouldnt recomend drawing in it though its got a slow interface and not very user friendly for drawing.

[Mark70]

As and Architectural Technologist, I can tell you it takes long enough to master drawing in 2d.  Drafting in 3d is more difficult.  Drafting accurately in 3d is even more difficult, and for CNC routing you must be 100% accurate.  Not to mention, I bet there's a whole bunch of specialized knowledge for programming CNC like, what not to do to avoid making impossible to machine forms, or manouvres which will break bits.... etc..  I'm just speculating since I've never tried to do any CNC stuff.

Don't let that discourage you.  Knowing how to use AutoCAD  is a huge asset.  It helps out for all kinds if DIY build projects.  My brother and father are jealous of my CAD skill and they dabble in it saying they want to learn it.   Of course they have skills which I can't even touch.  I guess it just seems to them like everyone should know CAD.

Keep in mind "CAD Operator" is a career title.

[nostrebor]

Been using AutoCAD since version 9 DOS. 18 years and still I learn new things about it. I do use it much less now than I used to so suddenly the guys in Engineering are making fun of me because I'm the "old" guy who's not up on the latest Those LOSERS!

You can get the basics of 2D drawing down in a few weeks of use, if you are fairly computer savvy. I use it in a construction environment so I have no experience with CAD to CAM.

I will say that once you start using it, it's like meth. You will be thinking of all kinds of uses. I even lay out my furniture and arrange it in ACAD It's just easier than moving the couch until my wife is happy.

[elvis]

AutoCAD is not user friendly.  It is difficult to do things quickly in, and utterly NOT recommended for beginners and casual users.  And it's stupidly expensive.

The problem with AutoCAD users is that they've been using it for so long they take their expert knowledge of the package as an every-day thing, and tend to recommend it to others.  I should know, I ran the technology department for Asia-Pacific region of the world's largest Architecture firm for well over 5 years, and implemented most of the stuff they are using today, including the AutoCAD and ADT setups, Microstation setups, and 3DSMax 3D department and render farm.  All whiz-bang stuff, but not even close to being a sensible recommendation for new users.

Instead, try SketchUp:
http://www.sketchup.com/

It's cheaper, easier, friendlier and more intuitive than any other product I've ever come across.  In 15 years I've not seen a CAD package that has people with zero CAD/drafting/architecture/engineering experience drawing real-world things quicker.  You don't need 10 years of industry experience to understand it.  Watch the 30 minute training DVD supplied with it, and start modelling in real exportable 3D.  Easy as pie, and highly recommended.

[rwhip41]

I'm going out on a limb here, but I am compelled to help...

I use a 3d CAD package at work (Pro/Engineer), and I could get you a 3d file that is accurate to work with in Master Cam.

My experience with AutoCAD is that it doesn't translate very nicely into other packages such as Master Cam. Edges won't match up, leaving the decision as to which lines to move very difficult.

I'd just free-hand it. IIf you are carefull and if you take your time, you will be happy with your results. It would be faster considering the fact that you wouldn't have to learn a CAD package as well as a programming package (which is more difficult, IMO).

[quarterback]

Instead, try SketchUp:
http://www.sketchup.com/

It's cheaper, easier, friendlier and more intuitive than any other product I've ever come across. 

When I saw this thread started last night, I thought about mentioning SketchUp but wasn't sure it was a "real" CAD program, so I held off.

I was going to mention it because it's the only one I've used and seemed to be easier than other programs out there.  That being said, I still don't know how to use it    It's one of those programs that I have to re-"learn" every time I use it because I don't use it very frequently and I've never really learned how to use it correctly.

That being said, it is easy and intuitive enough for me to do whatever it is that I need to do.  Again though, I wonder is SketchUp a "real" enough CAD program to prep work for a CNC?

[elvis]

Sketchup is a little different to most programs in that it doesn't really enforce a particular file standard on you.  You can build something in 3D, get yourself a nice 2D section from the 3D and export it to whatever data/file format your router needs.

Import and export with Sketchup is a dream.  It's strange to find a company that goes out of their way to make their package easy to use with other competing packages.  You don't find that sort of thing often in the closed-source world.

[muell67]

if you have everything sketched out and dimensioned and its only a couple of sheets I could just draw it for you. Unless your actually wanting to learn the program.

[M3talhead]

Instead, try SketchUp:
http://www.sketchup.com/

It's cheaper, easier, friendlier and more intuitive than any other product I've ever come across. 

When I saw this thread started last night, I thought about mentioning SketchUp but wasn't sure it was a "real" CAD program, so I held off.

I was going to mention it because it's the only one I've used and seemed to be easier than other programs out there.  That being said, I still don't know how to use it    It's one of those programs that I have to re-"learn" every time I use it because I don't use it very frequently and I've never really learned how to use it correctly.

That being said, it is easy and intuitive enough for me to do whatever it is that I need to do.  Again though, I wonder is SketchUp a "real" enough CAD program to prep work for a CNC?

  I did the exact same thing! I wasnt sure if I should mention SketchUp before, but now that the cat is out of the bag, I'll be one of the first to recommend going that route. Its a lot easier to learn, even with a manual. I tried AutoCAD but ended up ditching it about 6 months ago after realizing how steep the learning curve was. I ended up going with SketchUp and havent looked back. Granted, there are things that AutoCAD can do that SketchUp can't, but we're talking tools only NASA would need. For drawing MAME cabs, its more than flexible enough.

[mccoy178]

Thanks for the great replys fellas!  I believe that I may ask someone to draw it in CAD for me.  I need to make my jukebox out of 1/4" cardboard first, make some very solid measurements, and create some in depth drawings.  How do the drawings need to be made?  Each individual piece, the whole thing, or what I believe to be obvious, a complete makeup of everything?  You tell me what I need to provide, and I'll get it done.  Thanks again fellas.

[Mark70]

which drawings you need is up to you and the project.

For example, you can have a skilled millworker whip you up a kitchen with just a verbal description (not that I'd try to do that since I am in the habit of using drawings more for contract purposes than to tell someone how to build it).  What I'm getting at is, assess the skill of your builder.  If it's you, and you've never built anything before and don't want to be making trips back to the hardware store for replacement materials, draw more, use the drawings for planning and purchasing materials.  If you build cabinets for fun and have a pro wood working shop in your garage, two elevations and a section will get you through.

Me, I'm a bit retentive when it comes to planning so I modelled it all in 3d, right down to the framing.  I made pattern drawings (dimensioned not actually used as layover patterns) for each piece, and I laid them out on 48x96 sheets so I'd save on material.

[mccoy178]

Well, I just didn't understand what is necessary for the software.  I have built a ton of stuff, I just want to use the cnc router because it's really amazing.  I plan on powder coating this as well, so I want it as tight as possible.  I may end up building it the old fashion way due to odd angles.  I don't know how I would even begin to explain that to someone.  I will create a mock up and report back.  If I think I can properly draw the pieces and create a blue prints of sort, I'll go further.  I just know that based on how I've done things in the past, I won't trully be able to make it unless I just do it.  Does that make sense?  I've got some sorting to do.

[eccs19]

May I suggest that if you do have a couple of volunteers here willing to help out with your cad stuff, you should find out for sure what program your CNC operator is working with.  If he's using Edgecam, then if someone can do it for you in edgecam, then your all set.  The problem with doing translations from one format to another, is you could potentially lose information.  Being as your probably just cutting out flat panels, your not going to be to bad, but.....

I will also volunteer my services.  I have access to Catia V4 & V5. (I prefer to work in V5)

[M3talhead]

I too would be willing to give whatever you've got in mind a shot in SketchUp. I can export 3d renders into the following formats:

SketchUp (*.skp)
3DS (*.3ds)
AutoCAD DWG (*.dwg)
AutoCAD DXF (*.dxf)
FBX (*.fbx)
OBJ (*.obj)
XSI (*.xsi)
VRML (*wrl)

[mccoy178]

I just found out they use Autocad.  I called the guy and he said he would be willing to draw it up for me.  What a stroke of luck.  He lives in Mass. and I live in Ohio, so this should be interesting.  He is coming to town next Wednesday, so I have a week to get my drawings ready and my design finalized.  Thank you very much for the offers guys.  I am also planning a cabinet very similar to the Golden Tee Live machine, so I will certainly be looking you fellas up.  I will keep this post alive or more likely link to the announcements page as my jukebox project just got thrown into overdrive.

[mccoy178]

Thanks Metalhead, I appreciate the hook up.  I will also post the file once it is made so that everyone can have access to it.

[mccoy178]

I wanted to again stress my thanks to the guys who responded and those who offered help.  I never imagined my access to the cnc router would also be willing to draw it up.  I don't like asking for handouts, in this case I didn't know what I was going to do really, and it was cool that the community stepped up.  Thanks fellas.

[eccs19]

I wanted to again stress my thanks to the guys who responded and those who offered help.  I never imagined my access to the cnc router would also be willing to draw it up.  I don't like asking for handouts, in this case I didn't know what I was going to do really, and it was cool that the community stepped up.  Thanks fellas.

Hey, that's what were all here for.  I've had someone help me out before in here, so it just seems natural to help someone else out who is in need.

[Mark70]

... I never imagined my access to the cnc router would also be willing to draw it up.  I don't like asking for handouts...

A case of cold beer, and a buddy to enjoy it with is the universal currency.