Dreamcast Vga or standard resolution

[cr81]

My arcade cabinet has a 3 resoulution monitor im hooking my dreamcast up to it and i want to know what will look better,maybe better isnt the word I want to know what will look more authentic and true to its arcade counterpart.
Playing garou, thirdstrike, ikaruga and a few others

[SNAAKE]

authentic = standard 15khz rgb

high resolution = jaggy/blocky fighting game sprites(background looks fine)

[elvis]

Playing garou, thirdstrike

15KHz.

ikaruga

31KHz.

Rule of thumb: 2D = low res.  3D = high res. 

The only exception being Guilty Gear, which is one of the few 2D games that looks FANTASTIC in high res.

If you have a DC VGA box, make yourself a simple switch to be able to select high and low res at startup.  Pretty easy to do.

[Negativecreep0]

I know some of you guys are do it yourselfers, now i can do the snipping of the Hi res wire forcing the vga box to do low res all the time, but does anyone have a box  where they rigged up a switch? what component would I need? and how would i go about soldering it to the wires? Thanks

[stellarola]

I was playing MVC2 in high-res last night. I like the way it looks personally. 

[ChadTower]

Hey I just got an idea...

...maybe I should swap in a monitor in my DC Kiosk, taking out the crappy little TV in there.

[elvis]

I know some of you guys are do it yourselfers, now i can do the snipping of the Hi res wire forcing the vga box to do low res all the time, but does anyone have a box  where they rigged up a switch? what component would I need? and how would i go about soldering it to the wires? Thanks

http://arcadecontrols.com/arcade_consoles.shtml#dc2arcade

http://www.gamesx.com/grafx/dricas.gif

http://www.gamesx.com/wiki/doku.php?id=av:dreamcastav

[Goz]

I was playing MVC2 in high-res last night. I like the way it looks personally. 

You're not the only one.

[HaRuMaN]

I really gotta get a VGA box for my dreamcast, lol...

[elvis]

I really gotta get a VGA box for my dreamcast, lol...

It's a whole new world.  I ain't ever going back to TV.  Ever.

[Minwah]

It's a whole new world.  I ain't ever going back to TV.  Ever.

I'm the other way...I think all games look best at 15khz (using RGB).  Somehow the crispness of VGA makes the graphics look worse IMO.

[Negativecreep0]

I second that. Guile's Pythons just don't look the same with that jaggidness . Like he has shingles or something..... SONIC BOOOOOOOOOOm!!!!

[Dave_K.]

It's a whole new world.  I ain't ever going back to TV.  Ever.

I'm the other way...I think all games look best at 15khz (using RGB).  Somehow the crispness of VGA makes the graphics look worse IMO.

I think what he ment was TV not 15khz RGB.  But to your latter comment, you do know that some of the Dreamcast ports were of 15khz arcade games, while others were actually developed with 31khz high resolution in mind (pretty much all the Naomi ports).  You may think of it more simply as the 3d naomi games look better at vga, while 2d CPS2 ports look better at 15khz.  So they both have their advantages.

[markrvp]

Please excuse my tardiness in getting in here.  Goz is helping me get a Dreamcast cabinet put together.  I hooked up my Dreamcast to my 21" VGA monitor last night with the VGA adapter.  Soul Caliber was unbelievably beautiful whereas the Streetfighter games were too blocky.  That's pretty much what the rest of you have found too, right?

Who here is using multi-sync monitors and how do you force 15khz or 31khz by game?

I have been doing more research.  Is the only way to choose between 15khz or 31khz by using a toggle switch on the Dreamcast wire #6?  If so, does the Dreamcast need to be off before switching? 

I have a Betson Multisync 27" monitor.  Could I just leave it connected to the VGA box through a regular 15 pin VGA cable and use the toggle switch to choose between 15khz and 31khz?

I would like to build a separate Dreamcast cab and I probably won't be able to buy another multisync monitor and would go with a CGA monitor.  If I did that I am not clear on the hack to make it work.  I understand that I need to cut wire 6 on the VGA box.  The box has a regular 15 pin VGA connector.  The diagram I saw had a 15 pin to 9 pin VGA cable, but the CGA monitor just has a .156 pin header with pins for:  R, G, B, Ground, Sync.  Is there another diagram showing how to hack a 15 pin cable to the R, G, B, Ground, Sync pinout?  Is it the same pinout as the VGA breakout for the AVGA card on Ultimarc's website?

Thanks for the help guys.

[elvis]

It's a whole new world.  I ain't ever going back to TV.  Ever.

I'm the other way...I think all games look best at 15khz (using RGB).  Somehow the crispness of VGA makes the graphics look worse IMO.

I think what he ment was TV not 15khz RGB.

Correct.  I play 2D games on 15KHz arcade monitors, and 3D games on  31KHz PC monitors (unless I'm being super lazy, and can't be stuffed swapping consoles around inside my cabs, and just put up with blocky 2D on 31KHz).

TV just plain sucks, unless you're lucky enough to live in a country where RGB/SCART TVs are reasonably priced.  With that said, component YPrPb TVs are getting cheaper here in Australia, but not all consoles support component YPrPb out (many of the older ones only go as far as S-Video).  Whereas you can get RGB from almost any console.

CRT TVs are getting very cheap, but all the 21" ones that are flooding the market at the moment only support S-Video.  Hacking RGB-in to these can range from trivial to a downright nightmare, but unfortunatly you never find the same TV twice (stock is whatever came out of the import container last week from some random factory), and it's 50/50 as to whether you get schematics with the unit.  That, and the whole working inside a high-voltage device thing isn't fun.

[Dave_K.]

I have been doing more research.  Is the only way to choose between 15khz or 31khz by using a toggle switch on the Dreamcast wire #6?  If so, does the Dreamcast need to be off before switching? 

Yes, toggle switch will do the trick.  Yes, you must turn off, then back on the dreamcast if you want to switch resolutions.

I have a Betson Multisync 27" monitor.  Could I just leave it connected to the VGA box through a regular 15 pin VGA cable and use the toggle switch to choose between 15khz and 31khz?

Yes, I have the exact same monitor, and leave the vga cord plugged into the hacked VGA box (works for both 15khz and 31khz modes).

I would like to build a separate Dreamcast cab and I probably won't be able to buy another multisync monitor and would go with a CGA monitor.  If I did that I am not clear on the hack to make it work.  I understand that I need to cut wire 6 on the VGA box.  The box has a regular 15 pin VGA connector.  The diagram I saw had a 15 pin to 9 pin VGA cable, but the CGA monitor just has a .156 pin header with pins for:  R, G, B, Ground, Sync.  Is there another diagram showing how to hack a 15 pin cable to the R, G, B, Ground, Sync pinout?  Is it the same pinout as the VGA breakout for the AVGA card on Ultimarc's website?

Simply hack your own VGA extension cord with the molex header for your monitor.  Check the monitor schematics for the pinout, as it should have pins for both Horizontal and Vertical sync (as well as R/G/B/Gnd).

As previously pointed out by elvis, this is all documented here:
http://arcadecontrols.com/arcade_consoles.shtml#dc2arcade

[markrvp]

Thanks Dave_K.

I did read the previous links and here is where I'm a little fuzzy:  http://www.gamesx.com/hwb/ca_9to15VGA.html  The 9 pin to 15 pin VGA scenario doesn't seem to fit for an arcade monitor.

Is this the correct pinout for a cable to connect from the VGA connector on the VGA box to the arcade monitor?

Pin     Signal
1         Red
2         Green
3         Blue
4         -
5         Ground
6         -
7         -
8         -
9         -
10       -
11       -
12       -
13       Horizontal Sync
14       Vertical Sync
15       -

[Minwah]

TV just plain sucks, unless you're lucky enough to live in a country where RGB/SCART TVs are reasonably priced.

Oh I agree with that...suppose I'm spoiled as all TV's here are scart.  I don't understand why everywhere doesn't have it, it's a great idea.

[elvis]

Oh I agree with that...suppose I'm spoiled as all TV's here are scart.  I don't understand why everywhere doesn't have it, it's a great idea.

Everything we get here in AU is chinese built.  And saving 30 cents by not adding SCART across 10 million units means millions of dollars saved.  Economics overrides common sense and consumer happiness once more.   

[Dave_K.]

Pin     Signal
1         Red
2         Green
3         Blue
4         -
5         Ground
6         -
7         -
8         -
9         -
10       -
11       -
12       -
13       Horizontal Sync
14       Vertical Sync
15       -

You may want to use pin 10 (sync-ground) instead of pin 5, but everything else looks correct.

[Frosty]

I would like to build a separate Dreamcast cab and I probably won't be able to buy another multisync monitor and would go with a CGA monitor.

Even if you just go the CGA route, you'll be impressed.  The Dreamcast looks great at 15 kHz, especially direct to an arcade monitor: the colors are rich and the 2D fighting games look fantastic.  The only drawback is not being able to play the 31 kHz games in true VGA...

[Negativecreep0]

Guys I took circuits in college but I'm a little confused about what I solder to what on the vga box to add a switch can someone give me a run through speaking in basic english please? Or point me to a pictured tutorial online somewhere of adding the switch. I have one of those naki DC vga boxes.... Im sure all boxes are pretty much the same. Thanks

[markrvp]

Guys I took circuits in college but I'm a little confused about what I solder to what on the vga box to add a switch can someone give me a run through speaking in basic english please? Or point me to a pictured tutorial online somewhere of adding the switch. I have one of those naki DC vga boxes.... Im sure all boxes are pretty much the same. Thanks

I would also appreciate such a pictorial.

[Dave_K.]

Guys I took circuits in college but I'm a little confused about what I solder to what on the vga box to add a switch can someone give me a run through speaking in basic english please? Or point me to a pictured tutorial online somewhere of adding the switch. I have one of those naki DC vga boxes.... Im sure all boxes are pretty much the same. Thanks

I would also appreciate such a pictorial.

No, all vga boxes are certainly NOT the same, with respect to what color wires they use, where the connectors are on the pcb, and so on.  A picture guide would only be good for one brand of VGA box (of which there are many).  Sorry folks, but you'll have to use your brains on this one.  The FAQ is written in plain english, so maybe if you elaborate on exactly what instructions are causing the confusion, we could help clear up the matter.

[markrvp]

I would also appreciate such a pictorial.

Sorry folks, but you'll have to use your brains on this one.  The FAQ is written in plain english, so maybe if you elaborate on exactly what instructions are causing the confusion, we could help clear up the matter.

I apologize for appearing as if I don't want to use my brain. 

Here is the first issue where my ignorance is most apparent:



On the diagram above, is the item labeled DREAMCAST CONNECTOR the actual connector that is connected to the Dreamcast itself, or is it simply a place holder representing the wires which go over to the Dreamcast Connector?  The reason I wish to be clear on this is because from the diagram it looks like wire #6 connects to wire #7 WITHIN THE CABLE BEFORE IT GETS TO THE PCB.  That would make it necessary to connect the switch before that happens and it would be really, really close to the connector.

However, I am guessing everything in that Diagram is actually INSIDE THE VGA BOX, but I am simply asking for anyone who can verify the info for me to please prevent me from doing something that is wrong or unnecessary.

If anyone is willing to post a picture of their actual switch and where it is wired-in so I could simply see one (because there are no examples I can find) I would appreciate it and would be willing to post any pictures I possess or can create as a show of appreciation and good faith.

Thank you for your consideration.

[Dave_K.]

That diagram is used as an example for how to make your own VGA box, not a picture of how all vga boxes work.

Pin 6/7 both connect to gound, so one might say they are tied together (if using a multimeter on continuity test). But they are not litterally connected to each other as in that logic diagram.

As described in the FAQ on the site here:
http://arcadecontrols.com/arcade_consoles.shtml#dc2arcade

Use a multimeter to trace pins 6/7 on the AV connector side, to see where these wires connect to the VGA Box PCB inside.  This is the one difficult part, since both 6/7 tie to ground, you still don't know which is which.  Well you could trace pin 1 and then count over to the 6th wire on the connector of the PCB and then cut the 6th wire.

To verify you cut the correct wire, try using the vga box on a computer monitor (making sure the switch is set to PC).  If you cut the correct wire, you should get no picture.  If you still see a picture, then you cut wire 7 not 6.  Resplice #7 back together and cut #6, and test again.

As for the toggle switch, its a simple SPST (single pole single throw) toggle switch with 3 terminal connectors.  Attach wire 6 to the middle connector, and then run a wire from a ground point on the PCB to either of the other two outer connectors on the toggle. 

Thats all there is to it.

[Dave_K.]

front pic, back pic, and annotated pic.  The Yellow line represents wire #6, Green line represents a NEW WIRE I ADDED which connects to ground on the PCB.  As you can see in the last two pics, in the current toggle position, wire 6 is connected to the empty lug on the toggle switch, so it will output 15khz.  Move to the other position and wire 6 is connected to the ground wire, and outputs 31khz.

[markrvp]

Thank you very much!!! That was exactly what I needed to see.

[markrvp]

I have now hooked up my Dreamcast to the 27" Betson Multisync monitor I am going to use in my dedicated GT Fore Complete cabinet.

HOLY COW!

If you have never seen Ikaruga on a 27" VGA monitor then you have missed out.  I can't even begin to describe how nice it looks.  I'm actually pissed off because now I'm going to have to save up for another Multisync.  I don't think I will be satisfied with anything else.  That will also work nicely with the VGA box with the CGA switch option for 2D games which block up.

Thanks guys for showing me the light and helping me understand how to make it work.

Added:  WOW, I just loaded up Virtua Tennis for the first time on VGA.  It looks every bit as good (or better) than the arcade version.  It plays great, too.  I am now a HUGE Dreamcast fan.  MAME games aren't near as exciting now.

[Goz]

Welcome to gaming nirvana....

[TheRed]

Note to self....next cab needs a HIGH RES MONITOR