VectorMAME machines

[ArcadeMaze]

Who is a member of the MAME niche group that Saint refers to in Project Arcade?  Let's hear some details about these machines!

I am not sure to account for multiples, so if you have more than one, mention it.

I have a machine based on the WG6101 color monitor and one based on the 19V2000 B/W monitor.

[shawnzilla]

I put my count in as having a WG 6100. But I do also have a Vectrex (it just won't be in the final machine)...although I may make a bartop cab out of it.

[Kremmit]

I don't have one yet, but I just picked up an Ampliphone for one, so I guess that qualifies me for "project" status.

BTW, you don't have separate options for the 25" and the 19" Ampliphone.  I got the 25".

[Matthew Fisher]

Mine's based on a WG6100 at the moment, but I have an Amp that I just can't seem to get working.  As soon as it is, the WG goes to spare status.  On the other hand, it's HVT is a PennTrans, which is worth probably $200 by itself and is working.  If the Amp isn't much better than the WG, I may just have to sell it and use the proceeds to make another B/W vectormame, as the B/W games just don't look all that spectacular on a 6100...

[ChadTower]

BTW, you don't have separate options for the 25" and the 19" Ampliphone.  I got the 25".

That 25" may be my most wanted arcade item.

I have a G08 sitting in a box waiting to be used.

[ArcadeMaze]

Thanks for the reminder Shawnzilla!  I also have a vectrex, but it is not going to be a project or anything like that.  I just thought it would be cool to power the Zektor through it, and maybe use it as a trouble shooting monitor(In addition to just being a vectrex).  In fact, it would be kind of neat to use the 19V2000 with the vectrex, but I have no idea if that is possible.

At this point, I just have got the monitors working using a laptop that I am using to benchmark with.  Eventually I'll get powerful enough PCs to run each machine.  Then once the video is tweaked perfectly, then I'll move the monitors to their respective cabinets and start worrying about controls.

Based on the burn-in the WG6101 was from a Gravitar and the 19V2000 was from an Omega Race.

[XtraSmiley]

I don't have one yet, but I just picked up an Ampliphone for one, so I guess that qualifies me for "project" status.

BTW, you don't have separate options for the 25" and the 19" Ampliphone.  I got the 25".

Holy crap, that's my most wanted item!

I have a spare 6100 and a vectrex plus two zvg, but I can't get DosMAME to work, so I'm waiting for someone to write windows gui for it as well as new overlay software.

I was thinking about a Space Duel cab with a modified cp.

[ArcadeMaze]

What part of the dosMAME is giving you the problem?

[XtraSmiley]

What part of the dosMAME is giving you the problem?

sound card, old equipment, non-usb compliance (for add ons like trackballs/spinners/encoders), you name it...

[XtraSmiley]

Also, it would be cool to have an emulator gui that could have all the emulators in one easy to use spot.  Then we could play Vectrex games on a big vector monitor and get color for the "overlays".

The guy who did No Name MAME said he would write windows drivers but he is busy and doesn't have a monitor, nor money to buy one.

Just to throw this out there, the inventor of the ZVG has agreed to give to me a ZVG that I can do what I want as long as I find some Windows drivers.  So basically, if you can write them, a free ZVG is coming your way!

[ArcadeMaze]

sound card, old equipment, non-usb compliance (for add ons like trackballs/spinners/encoders), you name it...

Yeah, I was concerned about USB when I started, but decided to use just the keyboard and the joystick port.  I am not there yet, but that's the plan.  For my testbed, the goal was just to make sure the Zektor and the monitors worked, so I was not concerned with inputs or the sound.  Now that I have the monitors working, I am going to start trying to find powerful enough PCs to be the permanent systems that will work.  I have already setup a dosMAME machine already, so getting the sound card to work in DOS won't be a problem.   

[SirPeale]

sound card, old equipment, non-usb compliance (for add ons like trackballs/spinners/encoders), you name it...

We're pretty creative here...list your hardware, and maybe we can help you track down the DOS drivers you're looking for.  You sure don't need USB for trackballs/spinners, and if the equipment is old, more than likely there are DOS drivers.

[XtraSmiley]

Thanks guys, when I get around to it, I'll know where to go!  The other problem is, a lot of the stuff I have I think is USB.  I'm pretty sure I want to use a Tornado spinner....

Anyway, the point is, you need a 800 mhz computer to run those old vectors with no problems.  I know the zvg site says 500, but this isn't really true with the newley added games since mame .90.

Not to mention the lost work that was put into the front end for vectormame.

We just need to update this to the modern age of, well WinXP.  Maybe our new PowerMAME guys will help?

[ChadTower]

Why on Earth would we need XP to emulate 20 year old games?  XP would adds nothing that can't be done another way that doesn't require 600meg of ram and a 2ghz machine.

[Kremmit]

BTW, you don't have separate options for the 25" and the 19" Ampliphone.  I got the 25".

That 25" may be my most wanted arcade item.

I have a G08 sitting in a box waiting to be used.

Holy crap, that's my most wanted item!

Neener, Neener, Neener! 

I've been watching for one for a long time now.  I really shouldn't have blown the cash on it, but you know how often one comes up.  My wife thinks I'm insane.

I'm thinking about going all out on this one and making it rotatable, because it's gotta play Tempest, and I found out I really like Quantum at CA Extreme last year.  Either rotatable, or a giant coctail.

[XtraSmiley]

Why on Earth would we need XP to emulate 20 year old games?  XP would adds nothing that can't be done another way that doesn't require 600meg of ram and a 2ghz machine.

Well, I'm thinking of using the computer to do multiple things, so that's why.  Why would one need a 700mhz computer to emulate a 8mhz game from 20 years ago?  I have no idea....

As for the rotating 25', just keep it one way, it will still be 19' for the vertical games, which is what they were dedicated, right?

[Matthew Fisher]

Why on Earth would we need XP to emulate 20 year old games?  XP would adds nothing that can't be done another way that doesn't require 600meg of ram and a 2ghz machine.

For me, it's anything that would allow me to use USB!  Analog through the gameport is still giving me problems I can't seem to get around.  My analog stick works just fine in SW, but no go in Red Baron.  I desparately want to be able to use the apac.  Also, I have an Act Labs shifter I could use for Speed Freak, but that is USB also.  Finally, another consideration for me is that Top Gunner is very slow in dmame .100 and the while the driver has been updated, dmame has not.  Everything is just a little easier in winmame, and what it would add up to is less messing around and more playing...

What part of the dosMAME is giving you the problem?

sound card, old equipment, non-usb compliance (for add ons like trackballs/spinners/encoders), you name it...

Sound is a pain, but doable.  Many SB PCI cards can be made to work with the right drivers.  You can easily find the MS serial mouse driver on line.  Run spinners and trackballs through the optipac with the serial option (not the Tornado, though, I think).  Get the ipac (or any other encoder) with a PS2 plug and that's trival.  Like I said, it's the analog stuff that's giving me fits...  None of this would be an issue with windows, though, so I guess the main point stands. 

[MikeQ]

Thanks guys, when I get around to it, I'll know where to go!  The other problem is, a lot of the stuff I have I think is USB.  I'm pretty sure I want to use a Tornado spinner....

Anyway, the point is, you need a 800 mhz computer to run those old vectors with no problems.  I know the zvg site says 500, but this isn't really true with the newley added games since mame .90.

Not to mention the lost work that was put into the front end for vectormame.

We just need to update this to the modern age of, well WinXP.  Maybe our new PowerMAME guys will help?

I've sent email to Zonn.  It is something I want to do.  WinXP is a little more complex as it will probably require a kernel driver to support a parallel port device with the efficiency required to drive the graphics device.  This is low priority project though.  It will require acquiring a vector monitor and will be a lot of work.

[XtraSmiley]

Thanks guys, when I get around to it, I'll know where to go!  The other problem is, a lot of the stuff I have I think is USB.  I'm pretty sure I want to use a Tornado spinner....

Anyway, the point is, you need a 800 mhz computer to run those old vectors with no problems.  I know the zvg site says 500, but this isn't really true with the newley added games since mame .90.

Not to mention the lost work that was put into the front end for vectormame.

We just need to update this to the modern age of, well WinXP.  Maybe our new PowerMAME guys will help?

I've sent email to Zonn.  It is something I want to do.  WinXP is a little more complex as it will probably require a kernel driver to support a parallel port device with the efficiency required to drive the graphics device.  This is low priority project though.  It will require acquiring a vector monitor and will be a lot of work.

Excellent.  You can pick up a  Vectrex to do it really cheap.  They are really cheap if you get one with no games or controllers or box.  I got mine for $20 this way b/c most people want working controllers and a box before they bid.

Please, please, please do this!  Zonn was going to send me the ZVG to find someone to do this, but the guy who was is really busy with school and doesn't have a monitor either.  I'm cool with you doing it, if you can crank it out.  If you live close by, I'll bring over a monitor or a Vectrex.  I'm in MD/DC area.

[MikeQ]

Excellent.  You can pick up a  Vectrex to do it really cheap.  They are really cheap if you get one with no games or controllers or box.  I got mine for $20 this way b/c most people want working controllers and a box before they bid.

Please, please, please do this!  Zonn was going to send me the ZVG to find someone to do this, but the guy who was is really busy with school and doesn't have a monitor either.  I'm cool with you doing it, if you can crank it out.  If you live close by, I'll bring over a monitor or a Vectrex.  I'm in MD/DC area.

Well, like I said this is low priority.  I've got several things ahead of this.  I'm not close.  I'm in Florida.

[XtraSmiley]

Of course, you have the whole creating a new kick---I'm attempting to get by the auto-censor and should be beaten after I re-read the rules-- PowerMAME to do first! 

Beggers can't be choosers!

Thanks a lot man.  This will kick ass if you do indeed get it working.

[shawnzilla]

Guys,

I think I may legally be a moron. Sooo...got my fancy new WG 6101 the other day. I hooked it up to the good old ZVG and....NOTHING. I couldn't get a pulse from the monitor to save my life.

I finally spoke with the guy whom I bought it from, and he asked "did you plug it in?" I was like, "yes, of course I plugged it into the ZVG!" He's like, "ok, but did you plug it into a 110V power source?"

So, I don't know why I thought the ZVG would actually power the monitor (maybe, because it plugs into the transformer). Anyway, I ended up splicing a computer power cable into the transformer and just like magic, my new monitor works! Do I feel like a dumbass or what?

[Matthew Fisher]

Guys,

I think I may legally be a moron. Sooo...got my fancy new WG 6101 the other day. I hooked it up to the good old ZVG and....NOTHING. I couldn't get a pulse from the monitor to save my life.

I finally spoke with the guy whom I bought it from, and he asked "did you plug it in?" I was like, "yes, of course I plugged it into the ZVG!" He's like, "ok, but did you plug it into a 110V power source?"

So, I don't know why I thought the ZVG would actually power the monitor (maybe, because it plugs into the transformer). Anyway, I ended up splicing a computer power cable into the transformer and just like magic, my new monitor works! Do I feel like a dumbass or what?

Do I still have to respond to your email, then?     Seriously, though, welcome to the world of vector mania.  You were lucky to get the power brick with the monitor; I think those things are even harder to find than the monitors. 

[shawnzilla]

Guys,

I think I may legally be a moron. Sooo...got my fancy new WG 6101 the other day. I hooked it up to the good old ZVG and....NOTHING. I couldn't get a pulse from the monitor to save my life.

I finally spoke with the guy whom I bought it from, and he asked "did you plug it in?" I was like, "yes, of course I plugged it into the ZVG!" He's like, "ok, but did you plug it into a 110V power source?"

So, I don't know why I thought the ZVG would actually power the monitor (maybe, because it plugs into the transformer). Anyway, I ended up splicing a computer power cable into the transformer and just like magic, my new monitor works! Do I feel like a dumbass or what?

Do I still have to respond to your email, then?     Seriously, though, welcome to the world of vector mania.  You were lucky to get the power brick with the monitor; I think those things are even harder to find than the monitors. 

Nope, you don't need to respond now.

I was just reminded this morning why I love this hobby so much. I am a realtor and was at an inspection for my client. In the basement of this house, the seller had a gameroom with a very nice Asteroids Deluxe and a Stargate. The old arcade games are just such works of art. Really amazing after all these years.

[shawnzilla]

BTW, what do people do if they can't find a power brick for their Vector monitors? Are there any substitutions that work?

[Matthew Fisher]

I have not found a suitable substitute, but I have not had to look.  For a 6100, the monitor needs 25-0-25 vac.  I seem to remember finding a cheap transformer somewhere that would output that voltage, but not at the 3 amps the 6100 needs.  There's gotta be something out there, but I don't know where it is and it may not be cheap.   Of course, most of the other vectors need something else, and none of them can just be plugged into the wall. 

Strangely enough, I found my Tempest and Asteroids when I was looking at a house for sale and saw them in the basement.  We ended up not buying the house, but I went back a few months later and asked the guy if he still had them and he did.  What's more, he told me that I could have them for free if I took them out of his basement, because he was just planning on breaking them apart () and hauling the pieces to the dump.  You might ask the seller what he wants to do with his games.  You could remind him that they're a real hassle to move...

[shawnzilla]

I have not found a suitable substitute, but I have not had to look.  For a 6100, the monitor needs 25-0-25 vac.  I seem to remember finding a cheap transformer somewhere that would output that voltage, but not at the 3 amps the 6100 needs.  There's gotta be something out there, but I don't know where it is and it may not be cheap.   Of course, most of the other vectors need something else, and none of them can just be plugged into the wall. 

Strangely enough, I found my Tempest and Asteroids when I was looking at a house for sale and saw them in the basement.  We ended up not buying the house, but I went back a few months later and asked the guy if he still had them and he did.  What's more, he told me that I could have them for free if I took them out of his basement, because he was just planning on breaking them apart () and hauling the pieces to the dump.  You might ask the seller what he wants to do with his games.  You could remind him that they're a real hassle to move...

I was really tempted to ask, but the machines were too well taken care of...and judging by the remnants of the Super Auctions sticker on the marquee of the Stargate, I'm willing to bet he hasn't had them long.

[ArcadeMaze]

BTW, what do people do if they can't find a power brick for their Vector monitors? Are there any substitutions that work?

I was going to use a power block from another machine(kangaroo) but in the end, decided not to take the chance, bit the bullet, and I put out for a power block from a Space Duel and a power block from an Asteroids off of eBay.  Speaking of which, I sort-of dodged a bullet on the Asteroids power block.  I was testing with a Battlezone power block, but the plug would not work, it was keyed differently.  Apparently the powerblocks changed between Asteroids/Lunar Lander and the later B/W vectors like BZ.  If they hadn't been keyed differently, it probably would have fried my monitor.
 

[shawnzilla]

This is becoming a sickness. I can't stop thinking about vector monitors! 

Now I want a B&W one (other than my Vectrex). Not that I'd want to buy another ZVG just for my Vectrex, but it'd sure make a fun little bartop machine. Something to the effect of putting it in a box with a nice bezel, and making the control panel detachable so that the monitor can be rotated.

[Matthew Fisher]

Apparently the powerblocks changed between Asteroids/Lunar Lander and the later B/W vectors like BZ. 
 

LL and the first 18,000 (or so) Asteroids (out of ~70,000) used the G05-801 and after that all Atari b/w vectors used the 802 or the 19V2000.  Good thing the blocks are keyed differently, because all the Atari blocks look just the same, at least they do to me.  Personally, I would always check the blocks with a multimeter just to be sure before plugging anything in.   

Now I want a B&W one (other than my Vectrex). Not that I'd want to buy another ZVG just for my Vectrex, but it'd sure make a fun little bartop machine. Something to the effect of putting it in a box with a nice bezel, and making the control panel detachable so that the monitor can be rotated.

I think I will do that myself someday (or maybe a cocktail) when I get the funds, but I would probably base it on a 15"  b/w instead of a Vectrex.  I think you can usually get them for even less than a Vectrex, the screen is much larger than the 9" Vectrex screen and of better quality (approx. three times as much real estate), and you wouldn't irritate any Vectrex purists out there by not using it for its intended purpose.  Having said that, I'll admit that the ZVG output looks pretty d*** good on a Vectrex...

[ChadTower]

Well, I'm thinking of using the computer to do multiple things, so that's why.  Why would one need a 700mhz computer to emulate a 8mhz game from 20 years ago?  I have no idea....

It is not unreasonable to say it would need an 800mhz.  You have no idea how many different levels of emulation are going on there in the hardware.  Remember, it generally takes a machine  AT LEAST TWICE as powerful as the original to emulate.

You can also pick up a 700mhz computer for free with very little legwork.

[shawnzilla]

For those of you with WG6100s, what ZVGTWEAK settings would you recommend?

[Matthew Fisher]

I crank the max intensity up all the way, which seems to make it pretty much the same brightness as my Tempest and makes all the games look better.  IMHO, the min intensity should also be set a little lower than the default to get good contrast in the Sega games in particular.  For the point brightness, it's a matter of what you care most about.  On the color games, a high setting makes points (stars, etc.) a little too bright but improves the overall look of the b/w games.  For instance, if it's high the bullets make a nice "ghost trail" in Asteroids but the stars in  Cosmic Chasm are too bright.  The vector redraw rate (? all I know is the default is 40) can probably be set a little lower.  Adjust it down until the vectors start breaking up and then back up a few clicks.  Too high, and performance is very adversely affected.  As for the other settings, maybe it depends on your computer and/or I can't recall at the moment.  I'll check this out this weekend and post again. 

[SirPeale]

You can also pick up a 700mhz computer for free with very little legwork.

Yeah?

[Kremmit]

You can also pick up a 700mhz computer for free with very little legwork.

Yeah?

It happens.  I grabbed two off the side of the road a while back, just as an example.  They were in some dude's trash pile.  It's kind of like arcade cabs.. you look, and you look, and nothing... until you suddenly find something. 

There's always somebody buying a new machine and putting the old one in the closet, tossing it, or giving it away.  The trick is to find that somebody.

[ArcadeMaze]

For those of you with WG6100s, what ZVGTWEAK settings would you recommend?

My tweak settings are currently open to suggestion.  At this point I am still using the defaults(at least for the 6100).  I will probably start fooling with them once I have the monitor where I want it for real. (I am aligning/converging/messing with the yoke tabs using a real Tempest test pattern).

As for an 800mhz machine, that is what Zonn stated on his website as his testbed system.  But there are some on the Vectorlist that are using a 400 mhz Pentium III as their system.  I am still sorting out the speeds, I am using a 1Ghz machine without sound as my test bed temporarily and it appears that frame rates are slightly slower when using a 19V2000 monitor as opposed to using a 19WG6100 monitor.   Hmmmmmmm.....

I am actually surprised at the number of MAME vector people on this board.  I would have thought that it would be more than 6.  I guess Saint was right, we are a niche group. 

[XtraSmiley]

Well, to be honest I've got 2 of these things ready to go, but I didn't really want to mess around with it until the ZVG got WinXP drivers.  That was like 2 years ago...

I guess I'll have to really get off ---my bottom--- and try to dual boot my laptop to see if I can get it running.

[danny_galaga]

You can also pick up a 700mhz computer for free with very little legwork.

Yeah?

chad is being literal here. if you go into someones house and then pick up the computer so long as there is no one home there will be very little legwork 

[ArcadeMaze]

Guys,

I think I may legally be a moron. Sooo...got my fancy new WG 6101 the other day. I hooked it up to the good old ZVG and....NOTHING. I couldn't get a pulse from the monitor to save my life.

I finally spoke with the guy whom I bought it from, and he asked "did you plug it in?" I was like, "yes, of course I plugged it into the ZVG!" He's like, "ok, but did you plug it into a 110V power source?"

So, I don't know why I thought the ZVG would actually power the monitor (maybe, because it plugs into the transformer). Anyway, I ended up splicing a computer power cable into the transformer and just like magic, my new monitor works! Do I feel like a dumbass or what?

Don't feel too terribly bad, when I first tried to fire up my 6101, I didn't get anything either.  But that was because I left the plug for the on/off switch and door interlocks unpopulated on the power block, so I didn't have a complete circuit.    'Doh!

[ArcadeMaze]

This is becoming a sickness. I can't stop thinking about vector monitors! 

Now I want a B&W one (other than my Vectrex). Not that I'd want to buy another ZVG just for my Vectrex, but it'd sure make a fun little bartop machine. Something to the effect of putting it in a box with a nice bezel, and making the control panel detachable so that the monitor can be rotated.

But it is a good sickness.     I had originally planned to stop with just the 6101, but I thought about it too much and I decided to get the 19V2000 and build seperate machines(It helps that both monitors can do dual-duty as spares in my dedicated vector machines).  So, I know of the vector madness... But on the plus side, vector monitors are pretty easy to fix.