VOTE for a NEW LIGHTGUN...

[Timstuff]

Hmm... This hack shows that a Wiimote could prove to be a pretty good alternative to the Topgun, if a universal PC-compatible gun in arcade casing is the desired result.

http://www.acidmods.com/forum/index.php?topic=6040

If you download a Wiimote driver, and wire up two infrared diodes to your cab (the Wii's sensor bar is apparently child's play to recreate), you could have a pretty slick light gun on your hands that will work on any TV. The one potential snag, I would think, is that the gun casing halves sold at Happ do not include trigger assemblies. I don't know why they don't sell the triggers, but if you're not working with a gun casing that already has a trigger, wiring up a Wiimote to one could get tricky.

BTW, aside from the Wiimote and LCD Topgun, are there any light gun options that are compatible with component video?

*EDIT*

Well lookie here... The Sega Saturn light gun has an almost identical sculpt to Sega's arcade guns for HOTD, but with the desirable addition of an extra button... And at $12, it's quite a bit cheaper than the arcade gun casings, and it even has the trigger with it. My only concern, if I were to use this for a Wiimote hack, would be that the materials for this would be noticeably less solid than the arcade version. Still, given the price, and the fact that there's no missing trigger to worry about, it looks like a pretty tempting option...



http://www.gameexpress.com/product_detail.cfm?UPC=010086801132

[ahofle]

The LCD Top Gun could potentially be the perfect end all for light guns if they would simply provide a method to optimize the LED bars for your monitor size and preferred shooting distance.  A "one-size-fits-all" option will never work well.  As it is, it's worthless IMO -- having to stand 6 feet away from an arcade machine is just plain dumb for games like Hogan's Alley/Duck Hunt/Crossbow etc.  It seems these are designed more for consoles than PC/retro gaming players.

[lettuce]

So the new TipGun II still has 2 big arse ugly sensor bars!!!, what gives! Heres an idea EMS, why not take a note out of Nintendo's book and just use one small single sensor bar!? the Wii Mote work flawlessly with just the 1 sensor bar, so there really is no need for 2, and at that size aswell  . Thats the main thing that put me off the first TopGun, having to have to rather large sensor bars either side of the monitor, just destroys the look of a cab really 

[Timstuff]

From what I have seen and heard, the Wiimote has much better tracking and is more versatile in it's range, which would make a much better candidate for a light gun hack than the topgun. But hey, the Topgun is made by some little company most likely based in a third world asian country, while the Wiimote was made by megacorp Nintendo to be user-friendly enough for grandma and grandpa. But even still, the makers of the Topgun could and should be doing a lot more with their product.

Like I said though... If you're using a Wiimote as the guts of a light gun hack, all you need is the two IR diodes on your cab, and it'd probably work perfectly. The diodes are no bigger than an LED, and since you can mount the LEDs directly with no "bar," that would make hiding them all the more easy.

[lettuce]

You can buy 3rd party wireless wii sensors now for a few pounds, i have one. Its just the software for the PC to communicate with the wii mote and sensor bar thats the problem at the moment, it just doesnt track the movement to well. Plus once in mame, mame doesnt register the key presses on the wii mote 

[fjl]

This is mostly what I care for in a Light Gun. First and most important is compatability. Plus being able to use two of them at once. It has to work with MAME. Another addition to that is accuracy. If it contains all that, I'm already sold. The next parts that are just pluses is a strong arcade like casing, style and finally the recoil thing. Recoil is a cool feature but not necessary.

So the most important parts is that it has to be compatible and spot on accurate but yet adjustable on distance use. Anything after that is just a plus.

[wbassett]

Thatīs normal.

Direct Sunlight or some IR lighti will interfere with your topgun.
Sometimes it advice you with a "blinking" laser.

Solution is to put your courtains, or be careful with reflecting surfaces.

TOPGUNS with a b/1 mark, have a special driver to see if you have some IR reflecting on surfaces.

Ah!!! Direct sunlight also affects the Guncons, the Actlabs, and every brand for users, even in some arcades

Regards

I  understand what you, others, and hk-ems say about stray lighting and sunlight.  My question is though is the new gun any better at handling it?  Yeah sure if direct sunlight is coming in on your cab it will have an effect on just about any gun, but what I am talking about is mid day, lots of sunlight but not necessarily directly on the cab.  My LED based GC3 works perfectly fine, but my generation one TopGun doesn't.  My question is have they resolved that?  I have a gun that uses virtually the same technology as the TopGun, and under the exact same conditions, one really does perform better than the other.  For EMS to blame room lighting or sunlight, or any 'stray IR' is really pretty lame when another gun using the exact same technology doesn't have any problem at all.  Nobody should be expected to only play at night and with all their lights off.  I would expect to be able to play with the same amount of lighting as there is in an arcade... and when I take my grandson to Chuck E Cheese, they have tons of windows and lights on and all their light gun games seem to work just fine.  Maybe it's just me, but I really do expect the same performance at home.

I'm not trying to slam the TopGun, but you have to understand when the company and others constantly say it's 'the best' and I've seen a direct comparison that proves it isn't, or has issues, just saying it's the best doesn't make it the best.  Now... I will say this in complete fairness, the GC3 will not work with a PC.  So in that respect it negates the GC3 as a PC gun and it can be said since the TopGun is the only PC gun that works with LCD and Plasma, it is the 'best'.  That is splitting hairs if you ask me.  It's true, but only by virtue that it's the only one in the game.  My point has always been when compared to other guns using the same technology, how does it rate then?

My other question still hasn't been answered by anyone as far as a percentage rating.  How much of an accuracy improvement was made with the new drivers?  Is it slight or a major improvement?  Again I am not busting on the gun, after all I own one myself.  People really do want to know if this is a significant improvement or not.  I am swapping PCs, so I have the luxury of testing the new drivers and being able to fall back to my old system if they don't work.  Others may not have that luxury and if they uninstall something that is working moderately well now and end up with nothing working, or something that doesn't work as good... they can't put their old PC back in like I can until they fix things.

My next question naturally is the TopGun II.  It works with Vista, which after 18 months is great they finally have one that works with a major operating system, but again is it a step up from the original gun? 

I really am not blasting it, these are some questions that people really want to know though.  Is the new gun better than the old gun (old gun with the new drivers) and is the new gun going to replace the old gun altogether?

The other curiosity question I have is the original gun was made by Hais.  It's pretty obvious EMS simply replaced the electronics, but  their track record is that it took them almost two years to come up with a driver that is a significant improvement over a beta driver and their recommendation to use a driver someone on a forum wrote. 

Here is the Hais gun...
http://www.consoleshop.com/product.php?productid=16345
http://www.chipstation.it/i_PISTOLA_HAIS_GAME_LIGHT_GUN_-_COMPATIBILE_PS2_XBOX_nPS2X-LIGHTGUN.html

I guess its possible EMS and Hais are partners, or even the same company, but this isn't a totally original gun designed from the ground up.  EMS can't take credit for the excellent button layout same as they can't be blamed for the recoil issues- but they did not 'make' this gun, unless they and Hais are the same company or EMS is a sub division of Hais.  It's not really a whole lot different than someone stuffing a Wii mote inside a gun casing and saying they 'made' a new gun.

Yes it is a PC gun, but up until now, it's had some problems for many people.  Is it a totally original design?  No.  Is the technology original?  Again no.  It's basically Wii tech, which is what the GC3 also uses... so right now my question is what are they really offering besides being the only current PC LCD/Plasma gun?    Or should people wait for the G1 Light Gun PC gun to come out which should be available shortly?

Without competition it is very easy to become complacent.  Once EMS has some real competition in the LCD/Plasma/Projector arena, only then can there be a title of 'best'.  If it's EMS, then great, they truly are the best with those displays, but I also would like to see some original gun designs from them too and not just using another company's gun and borrowed technology that they didn't work all the bugs out for a couple of years. 

Before anyone goes off on me, I own one of these guns myself and although I think it looks cool and love the buttons, it isn't what I expected.   We're talking two years now and they are finally delivering what they should have on day one.  Don't bow to them just because they are the only LCD gun, they made claims... we all should demand they meet those claims with each and every gun they sell. 

Like I said, the G1 light gun is saying they will have an PC compatable LCD/plasma screen gun out very soon.  If they come through, then we can say who really is the 'best'.   Until then, EMS is it as far as LCD screens, but there are still options if you have a CRT based cab.

As far as the thread topic and vote, I just want something that works and works well.

[Shoegazer]

I'm sorry, but I just don't get it when a company like EMS has several years to design a second-generation product, then releases it to the masses with "Vista compatibility" as it's big selling point.  Beyond being disappointed, I'm disgusted they are forcing people who want to continue using the TopGun to buy a new gun (and in my case, TWO new guns) just to keep up with the latest OS.  Shame on you, EMS.  You just lost a ton of my respect.

So yeah, total BS.  If my GunCon2 drivers don't work with my yet-to-be-delivered Vista machine, I'll just wait for another competitor.  Hey, maybe GGG will make a decent gun.  ;-)

Shoegazer

[Timstuff]

While we're about all the ways light gun makers are screwing their customers, would anyone happen to know why a few years ago, an Act Labs gun was $30, but now they're $100? I don't think the dollar has actually fallen that far...

[wbassett]

While we're about all the ways light gun makers are screwing their customers, would anyone happen to know why a few years ago, an Act Labs gun was $30, but now they're $100? I don't think the dollar has actually fallen that far...

Although I haven't tested the old ActLabs gun myself, or this one for that matter... if I recall the old ActLabs was very similar to this is functional design (not looks though, the old ActLabs looked like a Raygun)
http://www.ps2modchip.com/flash/pc_virtualgun.htm

These guns have a connector that you plug into your video card VGA connector and it has a passthrough that you then plug the monitor cable into.  Then you plug the other cable into the computer's USB port.

ActLabs now has a different interface.  The gun itself is still inexpensive, but the VGA adapter is what drives the price up.  Is it better?  I honestly don't know, but that's what changed from a couple of years ago until now.

I really would like to test the new ActLab gun, not the funky red or blue one, but the Walther PPK style gun, but... at around $100, that's a lot to spend just to test something.  Now if they would send me one to do a review on with the stipulation I send it back, that would be cool, but somehow I don't see them doing that.

I am trying to get an advanced loan of the new Happ's interface card to test.

[wbassett]

Well lookie here... The Sega Saturn light gun has an almost identical sculpt to Sega's arcade guns for HOTD, but with the desirable addition of an extra button... And at $12, it's quite a bit cheaper than the arcade gun casings, and it even has the trigger with it. My only concern, if I were to use this for a Wiimote hack, would be that the materials for this would be noticeably less solid than the arcade version. Still, given the price, and the fact that there's no missing trigger to worry about, it looks like a pretty tempting option...



http://www.gameexpress.com/product_detail.cfm?UPC=010086801132

Just bought one, I'll let you know how it looks and feels...

[wbassett]

Tim the Sega gun arrived.  GameExpress is FAST.  I ordered over the weekend and they shipped it Monday, and it was at my door today!  I ordered the Stunner Gun and a Perfect Shot.

I can say that it most definitely is not the same gun case as what Happ is selling but it is also not thin or too cheap.  The real telltale it's not the same casing is the screws are on the opposite sides.  No biggy.  It is relatively big, much bigger overall than the TopGun, and around the same weight, maybe slightly lighter.

It isn't comfortable to hold and doesn't feel like a real gun in your hand.  It's not horrible, just a little awkward feeling.  I'm sure a person could get used to it.  The TopGun has a much better feel to it in your hand.

Gutting it... I literally had it apart and back together in a couple of minutes.    It is bare basics inside and the optic board looks a lot like the Sega Gun Sensor Board for 28” Shotgun, a lot, but not identical.  I'll take pictures and post them on another thread so this thread isn't hijacked and can get back on course.  Pics won't be for a day or two because I have to travel to NJ for work and will be crashing soon.

[Shieldwolf]

1) What do you feel is a fair price for a Quality gun?
50.00
2) What is the Maximum you will pay for a Gun?
100.00
3) Will you pay extra for a Arcade Power Feedback Coil + Power Transformer kit?
yes
4) How much extra would you pay for a Arcade Coil kit?
30.00
5) How many guns will would you buy?
2
6) Would you prefer to have a Gun with Arcade Recoil built in?
sure
7) Would you prefer to have a Gun sold without feedback - but leave room for Coil Kit?
no
8 ) Would you prefer there is no recoil,  and no recoil kit available?
no
9) Would you prefer very cheap guns without features? no
10) Would you prefer Expensive guns with ALL features? yes
11) Would you prefer  Medium price gun with some features, and is upgradeable later?yes
ALSO ADD A FOOT PEDAL FOR TIME CRISIS

[heemid]

Any update on this?

1) What do you feel is a fair price for a Quality gun? 50
2) What is the Maximum you will pay for a Gun? 100
3) Will you pay extra for a Arcade Power Feedback Coil + Power Transformer kit? If cheap enough
4) How much extra would you pay for a Arcade Coil kit? 20
5) How many guns will would you buy? 2
6) Would you prefer to have a Gun with Arcade Recoil built in? No, make it an add-on
7) Would you prefer to have a Gun sold without feedback - but leave room for Coil Kit? Yes
8 ) Would you prefer there is no recoil,  and no recoil kit available? No
9) Would you prefer very cheap guns without features? No
10) Would you prefer Expensive guns with ALL features? Yes
11) Would you prefer  Medium price gun with some features, and is upgradeable later? YES

[briktop11b]

1) What do you feel is a fair price for a Quality gun?
$85
2) What is the Maximum you will pay for a Gun?
100$
3) Will you pay extra for a Arcade Power Feedback Coil + Power Transformer kit?
NO
4) How much extra would you pay for a Arcade Coil kit?
NONE
5) How many guns will would you buy?
2
6) Would you prefer to have a Gun with Arcade Recoil built in?
NO. I want a gun that hits what I'm aiming at, has easy drivers, durable, and don't have to be a mile from the TV
7) Would you prefer to have a Gun sold without feedback - but leave room for Coil Kit?
NO
8 ) Would you prefer there is no recoil,  and no recoil kit available?
Recoil is not a must. Remember the old days you didn't have recoil. Ill just be tickled to death if it works as i stated above.

9) Would you prefer very cheap guns without features?
If they are less than $50 ,hits what I'm aiming at, has easy drivers, durable, and don't have to be a mile from the TV, then screw the recoil, ill buy em.

10) Would you prefer Expensive guns with ALL features?
Not really.
11) Would you prefer Medium price gun with some features, and is upgradeable later?
Medium price is OK but really not interested in upgrades other than software.

Really,i think its about time for a decent light gun that doesn't cost an arm and a leg. Keep it simple. Look at the guns of old like area 51, lethal enforcers, the shells are nothing special but tough as hell. They don't have recoil or all that fancy jazz but they work. 2 extra buttons on the gun are a must for the different types of games(terminator 2) but leave off the stick that is pointless. I would love to have recoil but right now just focus on getting a great gun on the market that works and isn't that expensive. Hell if they sell good, make a version 2 with a recoil I'm sure if it was implemented well people would upgrade. Just don't screw this up Ive been waiting on a arcade gun for a long time. Thanks for jump starting all this,  hope it turns out.