Mouse Hack interface with Opti-Pac Question

[vizzinni]

Something tells me that this is a stupid question, but I'm going to ask anyway.

I just built a spinner based on the Cheep Spinner design, including the mouse hack.  I removed the LED encoder/decoder from the x-axis of a PS/2 Microsft mouse, soldered them onto a board and ran wire back to the mouse PCB. This is a slight oversimplication of the process, but I'm assuming that anyone reading this post knows the basic mouse hack I'm talking about.   I mounted the spinner onto my stand-alone CP "prototype" WIP and it works fine; kinda noisy and too much wobble, but it works. 

I recently acquired an older serial Opti-Pac and I'm trying to figure out how I'll connect the spinner/mouse hack to the Opti-Pac.    I want to do it so that I don't have to crawl under the computer desk to switch between the spinner and the mouse we use for the PC.  I also have a Happ 3" trackball on the way that I will connect to the Opti-Pac as well.

There are five wires on the mouse PCB harness.  I think I figured out that the black one is ground (I have a mulitmeter), but I'm pretty much lost after that point. 

How do I determine which wires from the mouse harness should be connected to the Opti-Pac?  I appreciate any help...

[Kremmit]

You don't do it quite the way you're thinking.  The wires going from your mousehack to the PS/2 (or USB, whichever you've got) plug can't be connected to the Opti-Pac.  Here's why:  The Opti-Pac is a mousehack.  OK, not really, but they both do the same job.  They take the raw signal from the optical emitter and reciever and translate that into "mouse data" which they in turn send through the PS/2 connector to your PC.  You can't take the "mouse data" from your mousehack PCB and feed it to the Opti-Pac.  What the Opti-Pac wants you to feed it is the raw signal from the emitter & reciever pair.

What you need is this:

http://www.ultimarc.com/optipac4.html

Or a real optic board scavenged from some other part or off of ebay.

Or, you might be able to use the boards you already mounted the emitter & receiver to, just add the resistor as shown in the DIY optic board page.  But the mouse PCB does not get used with the Opti-Pac, because the mouse PCB is what you bought the Opti-Pac to replace.

[Tiger-Heli]

Nice explanation - Kremmit!

[vizzinni]

That explanation makes sense in some ways, but I've got a nagging doubt.  Here's why.

On p. 211 of saint's book theres a pic showing a Happ Optical PCB and a mouse PCB, with the caption "a close-up look at a couple of different optical encoders..."  Fast forward to the Ultimarc DIY Optical Sensor page http://www.ultimarc.com/optipac4.html, where Andy explains the two methods of connecting a spinner to the Opti-Pac, one of which is the Happ Optical PCB.  So, back to saint's caption that indicates the two are both optical encoders, and you can see why I assumed that I can connect the mouse PCB to the Opti-Pac.

And another thing...Ultimarc's second option is to glue two opto-switches together, add a resistor, and connect this directly to the Opti-Pac.  Seems pretty simple.  What I don't understand though is how this simple opto-switch can interface with the Opti-Pac in the same manner as the Happ Optical PCB which has all kinds of resistors, an IC chip, etc.  Surely the output of the Happ Optical PCB is of a more refined flavor than the output of the opto-switch pair, and yet the Opti-Pac apparently can understand both very different signals and respond accordingly. 

Finally, despite all the above theorizing, the simplest method is no doubt the best, which would be to connect my homemade optical board (the emitter/receiver on the radio shack board, not the mouse PCB) directly to the Opti-Pac.  This isn't really any different than the Ultimarc DIY opto-switch option.  I've assumed that an additional resistor wouldn't be needed since, according to saint also on p. 211, it's likely that the IR receiver I desoldered from the mouse is actually a pair of receivers in one physical package.  If that's the case, then the question becomes which wires from the emitter/receiver board go to what connectors on the Opti-Pac?

Please forgive the lack of brevity....what else am I missing here?  Thanks....

[BobA]

I second the comment "what Kremmit said" .   You cannot use the PS2 connection of your mouse hack to connect to the optipac.   

But if you made the hack then you can probably jury rig the optical sensor directly to the optipac if you maintain your power and ground and isolate the x1 x2 of your spinner.

I have included a link to my page of mouse hack that details the optical board.  This is what you are trying to do with you opti sensor. 

Hope it helps

http://www.members.shaw.ca/bakaye/tballhack.htm

[vizzinni]

Thanks, I bookmarked that page a quite a while ago; it's been a great help.

I think "nagging doubt" was a poor choice of words on my part.  I've read enough of Kremmit's and Tiger Heli's stuff over the past few months to accept their expertise!  I accept that the mouse PCB doesn't connect to the Opti-Pac.  I guess it was more that I'm confused over a couple minor points. 

[Kremmit]

On p. 211 of saint's book theres a pic showing a Happ Optical PCB and a mouse PCB, with the caption "a close-up look at a couple of different optical encoders..." 

I can see how that might lead you to think they both serve the same function.  And it's partially true.  The portion of the mouse circuit that holds the optics serves the same function as the Happ optical board- but the portion of the mouse PCB that holds the microchip serves the same function as the Opti-Pac.

As the the difference in complexity between the Happ optical board and the DIY board- Yup, the Happ has a lot more going on there.  A 2006 Lexus has more going on than a '65 VW Bug, too.  I don't pretend to know what any of that extra stuff on the Happ board actually does, but I imagine it probably works a little better than the el-cheapo version.

[krick]

I recently acquired an older serial Opti-Pac and I'm trying to figure out how I'll connect the spinner/mouse hack to the Opti-Pac.

I just wanted to comment on this.  As far as I know, there is only one type of Opti-PAC.  The one that I have does have two 9-pin serial ports, however one of the ports is "special" and can be hooked up with either a serial cable, or a special cable that is serial on one end, and USB on the other.  So basically, even a "new" Opti-PAC is serial too.

[Kremmit]

I think some of the older ones didn't support USB, just serial.  IIRC, Andy offered a chip upgrade that would add USB support.  But it's been a while, and I could be dead wrong.

[u_rebelscum]

As the the difference in complexity between the Happ optical board and the DIY board- Yup, the Happ has a lot more going on there.  A 2006 Lexus has more going on than a '65 VW Bug, too.  I don't pretend to know what any of that extra stuff on the Happ board actually does, but I imagine it probably works a little better than the el-cheapo version.

Output debouncing, spike reduction, wave squaring (transisting the photosistors), and volt/current adjusting. 
Internally Volt regulating, volt smothing, current blah blah blah.

Helps this " much, AFAIK.