Ebay Problem, just wanted some opinions

[ArcadEd]

Howdy all, for the first time I kind of ran into an issue on ebay.

I bought a WWF Superstars PCB, and it took about 30 days to get here from the seller.  I sent numerous emails, and got a few back, mostly just asking me to be patient.

Well I finally got it and it works fine.  I left neutral feedback because I thought 30 days was a bit of an extreme, especially since the seller lives in the same state.

So I wake up this morning and find out the seller left me Negative feedback, my first negative mind you with 190+ positive.  They basically called me rude and inpatient.

I filed a report with ebay asking them to get the negative remove since I did nothing wrong.  I paid for the item withing minutes of it ending, then just waited.  I find it funny that the sell waited until they saw my feedback before posting feeback of their own.

Anyway, so I email them pretty much asking them WTF?  Not in those words of course.  Now they claim, in their response to my neutral feedback, that USPS lost the item in shipping.

Anyway, here is my original email to the seller.

You know what. I was being kind to just leave neatral and turn around and ruin my perfect rating because you didn't tell me ups lost the item? Waiting 30 days is far from being unreasonable and impatient. And telling me I should have picked up locally is a hoot. Why? I paid for shipping.

Their response was

You'll live,everyone gets a negative eventually.
Take care.

Well that kind of set me off, so I replied back.

Wow, aren't you a real piece of work. I should have left you negative
as well. I should have listened to the three other people I know in
arizona that said stay clear of buying from you.

I have a few friends that run arcade shops, and said they had run ins with this seller before, about different things.  Mostly when calling and asking questions.

Anyway, their response was simple.

Wow! Only 3 people out of the hundreds that I have dealt with here in AZ.
man what an a**hole.

So basically I try to make thing right when something goes wrong that I am selling.  I try to make customer happy, you know.  That way they want to come back to you.  But in this case I am just in awe. 

I sent a long reponse back.

You know what, I don't understand what your problem is.  I did nothing to warrant bad feedback.  I paid the moment the auction was over.  I did my part.  But somehow it ticked you off that I left you neutral feedback.  Then you come up with some lame lie about USPS losing it, and you had to send a new one.  Except oh, the picture with the listing is the picture of the exact board I got, right down to the sticker placement and TEST OK hand writing on the sticker.  But I guess you'll just say you took a picture of a different board than the one you originally sent out.

It hard to believe you have a business at all with the stellar customer service.  From day one you could have just told me, "I having a hard time getting it out, give me a few weeks."  Something, anything.  But no, you have a lame excuse.  If it really did get lost, why the hell wouldn't you just email me and tell me that?

I hardly think it's stupid to think and item should be to your door with in 10 days of winning and auctions.  I've sold hundreds of item on ebay, and if there ever was a problem, I'd communicate that with the person that spent money buying something from me.  It's common curtiousy.

So yeah, I guess I'm the ---uvula--- for winning your auction and paying you with my money within minutes of it ending.

I really have no clue what I possibly could have done to piss you off so much and warrant negative feedback.  But oh well, like you said, I was bound to run into some ---uvula--- some day that would give negative feedback just because I possibly could have pestered him too much wondering where my merchandise was.

Have a great life.

So I gotta ask, am I just taking this way to personally?  I take pride in my work and when selling stuff I make sure the customers are happy.  Even if I'm selling an xbox game or something.  I want them to know that if there is a problem, I'll care of it. 

I guess I just expect too much out of people

Anyway, this was more of a vent, and for all I know the seller frequents these boards.  HoundDog42 or something was the seller.

[redcoats]

It sucks to get negative feedback but the seller as much as the buyer has as much right as you to give you negative feedback.  There are just people like that on ebay. My advice to you as a buyer is never leave feedback until they do first. I believe you can do an update to the feedback on ebay or a reply to your own feedback that he left you.

[ArcadEd]

Yeah, I did that already.

Thanks for the feedback advice.  I know as a seller I leave feedback as soon as payment is received.  I figure the buyer as fullfilled their end of the deal at that point.

[whatzcrackn]

A lot of sellers hold your feedback hostage, even if you pay within seconds of closing.  That is why I refuse to leave feedback, until it is left for me or just leave postive period.  Ebay will not remove the feedback,  maybe talk to the seller.  I had someone do me dirty like that, so I stooped to his level and made dummy accounts just to leave three negs.  LOL......

That person took me for my money and two months later I actually got the item............oops  

But two months is way to long to get an item.  Even if it is overseas.

[ViperWk]

From what ive found its very common for alot of sellers to hold off posting feedback till you leave feedback first..  (especially if there were problems with the sale)

The only good ebayers that ive dealt with always post feed back staight after the payment has been received...

In these situtions where the seller hasnt left any feedback first, and there were some problem with the item itself or with delivery, i reckon its best just to not leave feedback at all and leave it at that, as sure enough 9/10 times they will probably return neg feedback at you...

Russ....

[kaz1961]

I had almost the same situation as yours on my first negative. Ebay does not care about the buyers. They will do nothing for you. I recently bought a game and after the auction the seller said I should make a better offer because the auction ended too low. When I wouldnt he left me my second  negative. Again, Ebay would do nothing to help. You can always do what someone else suggested and open another account and give him a negative from that one or bid on another of his auctions at the last second and wait a few weeks and give him a negative. Ebay is full of lying cheating scumbags!

[Roughy]

I gotta disagree with you guys on this one--to some degree.

That is, I've got a guy who royally stiffed me on a refrigerator and refused to help me--but helped a lot of other people out in their claims with the shipper.

Long story short, by going through proper channels with eBay and PayPal, he's now forced to refund my full purchase--including his ridiculously over-priced shipping (which so many of those a-holes do!).

The system can work; PayPal works harder at it than eBay, in my experience.

P.S.  Avoid tapmypony for kegerators! :-)

[ArcadEd]

Thanks all, glad to know I'm not alone in this feeling of utter pissed off ness (I made that up .

I fell better now, thanks .

[quarterback]

I gotta disagree with you guys on this one--to some degree.

That is, I've got a guy who royally stiffed me on a refrigerator and refused to help me--but helped a lot of other people out in their claims with the shipper.

He "stiffed you" by not sending the product?  

Or he "stiffed you" by sending the product and then not helping you out when the shipper lost/destroyed/stole/misdelievered the product?

I need more details to make a judgement on this, but if I sold something, shipped it out and then something happened between the buyer and the shipper, I'd be pretty pissed that I had to refund the money for it.

[quarterback]

Thanks all, glad to know I'm not alone in this feeling of utter pissed off ness (I made that up .

I fell better now, thanks .

I'm with the general consensus here.  As a buyer, I wait until the seller leaves me feedback before I leave any.  I paid the money, I did my part, I deserve the feedback first.

As a seller, I wait until I am able to confirm that the package was delivered.  Then I leave positive feedback. 

I'm glad that other sellers leave feedback as soon as I pay but, as a seller, I'm afraid that some numnutz is going to get the item and then claim that they never did and try and force my hand by threatening negative feedback.

[mmmPeanutButter]

Two thoughts:

about being held "hostage:"  The reason they do this (or so they say), is so that if there are any problems, they can work it out with you.  You probably should have e-mailed them and explain that you were thinking about a neutral feedback cause it took so long.  Request a partial refund (that's worked for me before).  [also, you should be able to see on the package what the shipping date was...  if it was USPS's fault, then you can't really blame the seller).

The second thought is this (and it's pretty slick).  Ebay will only allow you to leave feedback for a certain period after the auction close (I think it might be 60 days).  Wait until the last day and leave feedback then.  Then the guy wouldn't be able to leave you feedback cause it would be too late.  [I assume this would work, does anybody know for sure?]

ebay sure can be a headache.

[Roughy]

I gotta disagree with you guys on this one--to some degree.

That is, I've got a guy who royally stiffed me on a refrigerator and refused to help me--but helped a lot of other people out in their claims with the shipper.

He "stiffed you" by not sending the product?  

Or he "stiffed you" by sending the product and then not helping you out when the shipper lost/destroyed/stole/misdelievered the product?

I need more details to make a judgement on this, but if I sold something, shipped it out and then something happened between the buyer and the shipper, I'd be pretty pissed that I had to refund the money for it.

Okay, here's the story a little longer; was trying to be brief for the forums.

1)  Purchased item.  Paid immediately; always do--have a long time 100% and am proud of it.  Don't purchase unless you can afford the product, I always say.

2)  Followed-up many times.  Took over 10 days for item to ship via FedEx--claimed "bad weather" in Macon, GA.  Try living in Chicago for some bad weather, and our shippers didn't have many major problems...

3)  Received item on December 23rd.  Was out of town, but neighbor helped FedEx driver with the package into my garage.  Neighbor is a close friend, was very, very careful with the item, as he knew what it was and the intent and how much of his summer would be spent tapping from it for free.

4)  Opened item upon return from holidays.  Lots of major dings, scratches, broken parts.  Contacted FedEx and explain situation.  They "insure" for up to $100 on a shipment.  I paid an extra $6 for insurance that was never applied.  They say I need to contact the seller. 

5)  Contacted seller for assistance; claims need to be filed with FedEx and he needs to fill out a waiver so FedEx can deal directly with me, including sending me funds for the damage.  No response.

6)  Contacted seller again.  Gets hostile and asks me what I want from him.

7)  Explain to seller what I need from him--the waiver.

  Seller claims to not have a fax, please supply with an email address to send form to FedEx.

9)  FedEx doesn't do email.

10)  Contact other people seller has sold to that have filed claims, based upon their own feedback of seller.  Oddly enough, seller responds quickly, including faxing to FedEx.  Things seem to go smoothly for people who just aren't me--and I've not been a jerk, just matter-of-fact.

11)  Seller doesn't respond to 2 more emails.

12)  File claim with PayPal and eBay.

13)  Seller claims he's offering a full refund if I ship it back.  Oddly enough, PayPal sends a note with the same request.

14)  Explain to seller that I'd prefer not to ship back but to just get this waiver business out of the way.  Seller explains he wants HIS property back and he's tired of jacking with me, will deal with PayPal.

15)  Contact PayPal again, PayPal has already done a temporary hold on the full refund of the funds.  Which is about $110 more than FedEx would have given me.  PayPal says to return the item, with tracking information, to address provided.  PayPal claims that this person is a business and does a lot of transactions and that they find it very hard to believe he does not have a fax machine.

16)  Funny thing, seller only provides PO Box address.  Item is too heavy to ship via USPS, so have to go through entire issue to get street address so I can use a different shipper.  84lbs, not the 69lbs claimed to FedEx.

17)  Shipped back via UPS.  In same packaging it came in--which is retail packaging.  UPS shipper agrees with my assessment that this person bought a crate of these mini fridges from Lowe's and then shipped them in the same boxes that were meant for retail selling--not for shipping.  1/4" of styrofoam ain't enough to keep these safe no matter what.

18)  Contacted FedEx again to explain situation, what's happening.  Gave tracking number.  Brother-in-law works for FedEx and contacted him; lots of claims from this guy on virtually the same items.  It's interesting and the account is flagged.

19)  PayPal issues full refund.  All of which could have been avoided by a fax to FedEx allowing them to deal with me.

You can make your own assessment from that.  I spent too much time on it, but the end result is fine by me--with the exception of the loss of time for a project.  That stinks.

[Ninja Supremacist]

 The arbitration system on eBay works well after paying the $29.95.  The Paypal dispute resolution works great but it takes time.  Your case sounds like you need the eBay Squaretrade arbitration.  Negative feedback, in my opinion, costs more than the price of arbitration.  Most people ignore the squaretrade notice and if the party does not respond, you win by default.  Takes about two weeks.

[ArcadEd]

The arbitration system on eBay works well after paying the $29.95.  The Paypal dispute resolution works great but it takes time.  Your case sounds like you need the eBay Squaretrade arbitration.  Negative feedback, in my opinion, costs more than the price of arbitration.  Most people ignore the squaretrade notice and if the party does not respond, you win by default.  Takes about two weeks.

I've considered that, the price seems a bit steep though, especially for a 10 dollar item.  I have the notice in my email box still.  I put some thought into it and decide.  Thanks.

[Wienerdog]

I'm bitter about the entire eBay/Paypal process.  If you think the dispute process works well, you probably haven't been on the sellers side of things.

I sold a camera that worked when shipped and it was super bubble wrapped so there is no way it would get damaged.  The camera didn't come with software but when the buyer got the camera he said it works but his computer won't recognize it.  I sent him about 5 things to check on his computer.  The next day he sends me an email demanding his money back.  I politely told him that I wanted to help him out by getting his computer working, I know the camera was fine there are other things to try, but all of my auctions state there are no returns. 

I never heard from him again.  Immediately after that he filed a dispute at Paypal so now he has my camera and $60 is frozen in my Paypal account.  Paypal gave me 200 characters of space to explain the situation and has been "investigating" for over three weeks now.  So in the end, I'll probably lose my listing and paypal fees, all of the money from the auction including the shipping, and I'll probably have to pay for him to ship the camera back.  I also have no doubt that the buyer break the camera to prove that he was right. 

Unfortunately I think this is going to cost me more than that $60.  Every time I post an auction I have to wonder if the winning buyer is this LOW LIFE with a  dummy accounts. 

I agree with others, leave positive feedback or no feedback.

ArcadEd,
You said you want your buyers to be happy.  If you sell an XBox game, how do you protect yourself from the buyer that is trying to scam you.  Let's assume he gets the game and the writes you back the next day and says it doesn't work.  You know it worked when you sent it and you packed it so it wouldn't possibly be damaged.  Would you take a return from him and give him his money and shipping back?  Here are a couple things that can happen:
1.  He sends you back his own XBox game that was broken and keeps your working one.
2.  He plays your game for a week and then sends it back to you.  He just wanted to play the game for a couple days.  Hopefully he doesn't do something to intentionally break the game to cover his story.

If you trust your buyers, then I commend you.  Having said all of this, I always pay immediately and ship immediately after getting payment.  I over-protect everything and I make sure my buyers know when and where the item will show up.  I'll also go out of my way to help a buyer get stuff to work.  BUT NO RETURNS. 

[Roughy]

So in the end, I'll probably lose my listing and paypal fees, all of the money from the auction including the shipping, and I'll probably have to pay for him to ship the camera back.  I also have no doubt that the buyer break the camera to prove that he was right. 

Having just gone through this from the buyer's side, I can assure you that they made me ship back--at my expense--the item within 10 days AND provide a tracking number.   If the buyer does not do that, the claim is dropped.

Additionally, they ask that you ship it back "in its original condition" which was impossible in my case, so I took all kinds of photos.  Send those to back up your case, if you have them.

I found PayPal to be very reasonable and I can assure you I'm not a huge fan of them.  Let me correct and say that the first person was an @ss, everyone else has been cool.

[ArcadEd]

Here was the last email I got back.

Hopefully cussing is automatically edited.  If not, i'm sorry.

Ha!Ha! man, you really make things interesting but maybe if you'd take the time to here the facts instead of thinking that you KNOW IT ALL and realize that you gave me a nuetral feedback for no other reason than that the item took a while to get to you and it's all my fault and that you think I'm making up some lame excuse about the delay of shipping,guess what? The same board that I sent to you was eventually sent back to the return address(my house) and I had to resend it (in a new box) back to you again which cost me more money,twice the amount because usps ---fouled up beyond all recognition--- up but you'll never know what really happend since you don't want to here the truth which is what I'm telling you.Hey,think whatever you want and believe your 3 friends about me but the reality of it all is this,I keep my end of every deal(ALWAYS)AND IF YOU PISS ME OFF THEN YOU FEEL MY RATH BUT,I get games for $80-$150 on average and all my pcbs that i buy i get for 50cents to $2.00 so if you get on my good side then we will get along and I'll give you smoking deals but if you piss me off then you are a moran and I'll ---auto-censored--- YOU GOOD!!!! BOTTOM LINE!!! DON'T ---smurfing--- PISS ME OFF WITH A ---smurf-poop--- FEEDBACK THAT I DON'T DESERVE AND YOU'LL BE DOING YOURSELF A FAVOR!!!@! DON'T ---auto-censored--- WITH ME PERIOD!!!!!
GET IT??
I'M IN TUCSON OFTEN AND I ALSO BUY A LOT OF GAMES THERE THROUGH MY CONNECTS,SO IF YOU THINK WE CAN DO SOME DEALINGS THEN COOL BUT IF NOT THEN IT'S REALY NOT A PROBLEM FOR AS i MAKE AT LEAST $4,000 A MONTH DOING THIS WITH ARCADE GAME ALL DAY LONG.
NO HARD FEELINGS HERE AND TAKE CARE.

As for the question

ArcadEd,
You said you want your buyers to be happy.  If you sell an XBox game, how do you protect yourself from the buyer that is trying to scam you.  Let's assume he gets the game and the writes you back the next day and says it doesn't work.  You know it worked when you sent it and you packed it so it wouldn't possibly be damaged.  Would you take a return from him and give him his money and shipping back?  Here are a couple things that can happen:
1.  He sends you back his own XBox game that was broken and keeps your working one.
2.  He plays your game for a week and then sends it back to you.  He just wanted to play the game for a couple days.  Hopefully he doesn't do something to intentionally break the game to cover his story.

If you trust your buyers, then I commend you.  Having said all of this, I always pay immediately and ship immediately after getting payment.  I over-protect everything and I make sure my buyers know when and where the item will show up.  I'll also go out of my way to help a buyer get stuff to work.  BUT NO RETURNS. 

I don't know, I guess I hope people are good, in general.  Plus it's a low dollar item.  So if someone wants to jip me, I guess they can.  I would ask for the item back before a refund though.

[ArcadEd]

BTW,

Here was my response to the CRAZY email.

Are you threatening me?

You know, all you had to do was explain that USPS messed up and you had to reship.  Why wouldn't you just tell me that to begin with?

Granted, I should have emailed before I left the feedback.  I have never had an item take so long, that I wasn't sure how to handle it.  And since I never got a whole lot of information from you about what was going on, I felt a bit in the dark.  I should have emailed and dealt directly with you.  For that I apologize.

I was hoping we could handle this like adults.  But man, after seeing this rant, it doesn't sound likely.

Why would I want to do any dealings with you?  I'd be afraid you'd try to put a shiv in my back

[cholin]

Go garbage-picking.  Find that box for the date.

[mccoy178]

The guys name is Houndog82.  Looks like he had the same issue with someone else who left him a negative feedback.  I bet seeing those replys may have led him to make a snap decision then he decided to live with it.  I had an issue when I started using ebay a few years ago when a guy sold me two Ohio State Nike Jerseys of Chris Gamble.  The only problem is that...... there was no Nike Chris Gamble in existance at the time.  When I received no replys to my email, I did not pay.  He left me negative feedback twice for the two jerseys.  The other negative I received was by a guy who said his wife broke the cell phones I bought during packaging.  He didn't offer anything, just wanted me to know what happened.  I refused to buy them in that condition and he left me negative.  The only thing that has helped me has been time.  But I still have the negatives because of bad situations.  Stinks.

[ArcadEd]

Go garbage-picking.  Find that box for the date.

It's funny, I have the box right.  There is not indication that it was returned and reshipped.  It's dated Dec 28th, I won the auction and paid on Nov 30th.

And then they complain about having to pay twice for shipping.  Well, It cost $5.30 to ship in a free USPS shipping box, and they charged me 12 dollars for shipping at the end of auction.   Looks like they still made a bit of profit on the shipping.

What a freak.

[cholin]

He could have (for some gay reason) decided to re-package your box.....doubt it though.

And as for the extra cash on shipping.  He runs a business, right?  Hes not gonna drop off his packages, it costs him handling charges for USPS to pick it up from his warehouse.  Thats like 2 bucks.

People crank up shipping charges because ebay doesnt charge you on them.  If I sold a 1 dollar coin worth 40 bucks, i would list it as 99 cents and then put the shipping to 30 bucks, so that covers the 2 dollar shipping and my minimum 29 dollar profit for the coin.

Thats just how she works.

[ArcadEd]

He could have (for some gay reason) decided to re-package your box.....doubt it though.

And as for the extra cash on shipping.  He runs a business, right?  Hes not gonna drop off his packages, it costs him handling charges for USPS to pick it up from his warehouse.  Thats like 2 bucks.

People crank up shipping charges because ebay doesnt charge you on them.  If I sold a 1 dollar coin worth 40 bucks, i would list it as 99 cents and then put the shipping to 30 bucks, so that covers the 2 dollar shipping and my minimum 29 dollar profit for the coin.

Thats just how she works.

Yeah, I had no complaints about the shipping until they tried to throw it back in my face to try and make me feel sorry for them.  I'd feel much better about the whole thing if I would have just left negative.  But they decided to 1 up me.  And now threatening me is going a bit over the top LOL.

[Witchboard]

He could have (for some gay reason) decided to re-package your box.....doubt it though.

He says that's what he did.

The same board that I sent to you was eventually sent back to the return address(my house) and I had to resend it (in a new box) back to you again which cost me more money,twice the amount because usps ---fouled up beyond all recognition--- up but you'll never know what really happend since you don't want to here the truth which is what I'm telling you.

You should have ragged him for not knowing how to spell "moron" and "wrath".  That would have went over well. LOL

[ArcadEd]

He could have (for some gay reason) decided to re-package your box.....doubt it though.

He says that's what he did.

The same board that I sent to you was eventually sent back to the return address(my house) and I had to resend it (in a new box) back to you again which cost me more money,twice the amount because usps ---fouled up beyond all recognition--- up but you'll never know what really happend since you don't want to here the truth which is what I'm telling you.

You should have ragged him for not knowing how to spell "moron" and "wrath".  That would have went over well. LOL

I do like the part about the truth, which they are telling me. Would have been nice to have been given that information oh, after 15 or 20 days of it being "Lost"  Plus, when they emailed me back after my email after 11 days, they said to be patient.  Which tells me they hadn't even shipped it yet.

Yeah, I should have ragged on the spelling.  And the wonderful use of caps lock. 

[Crowquill]

I don't believe for an instant that the guy actually shipped it. Even with his story, he should have kept you posted and say that it was sent out on Jan. X, it should arrive shortly. Unfortunately, all you can do is leave responses to the negative.

I have two negatives. One from a seller who never responded to emails, and another from a buyer who bid on a US only auction from Canada. He left this as a response to the negative I left :

"Won`t ship outside US (?! ) I want to pay, or fix ` but he don`t like Canada !!"

"Yan2010"'s feedback: 1904 positive, 112 negative!

All of this was after I agreed to ship it to Canada and he didn't respond to 5 emails in a row.

[ArcadEd]

I don't believe for an instant that the guy actually shipped it. Even with his story, he should have kept you posted and say that it was sent out on Jan. X, it should arrive shortly. Unfortunately, all you can do is leave responses to the negative.

I have two negatives. One from a seller who never responded to emails, and another from a buyer who bid on a US only auction from Canada. He left this as a response to the negative I left :

"Won`t ship outside US (?! ) I want to pay, or fix ` but he don`t like Canada !!"

"Yan2010"'s feedback: 1904 positive, 112 negative!

All of this was after I agreed to ship it to Canada and he didn't respond to 5 emails in a row.

My thoughts exactly.  Especially when it would take 5-6 days to get a response via email, after multiple emails  But when I emailed them today about the neg feedback, well I got a response right away.  We've been back and forth all day.  4 emails from them now, but when I needed answers it took a week for a reply LOL.

People really suck sometimes.

[markrvp]

F Him, he stabbed a baby.

[SOAPboy]

F Him, he stabbed a baby.

Yeah F HIM!