Steve Jobs Joins the Dark Side!!

[shmokes]

There isn't nearly as much money in desktops as there is in servers and corporate licensing. 

You've said this before and it always seemed incredibly suspect to me.  MS gets paid for every OEM copy of Windows that is preinstalled on every PC sold in the world.  Not to mention that Windows does very well at retail as well. 

This time I decided to look it up.  According to MS's financial reports the Client segment (the department that makes desktop operating systems) brings in WAY more revenue than any other segment of their business except the Information Worker segment (MS Office), which comes in a close second. 

I'm not saying that servers and corporate licensing don't bring in lots of money.  Obviously they're huge.  But I think you are way off base when you downplay the profitability of the desktop for Microsoft.  Even discounting the influence that owning the desktop has on the profitability of other segments (MS wouldn't own the office suite market or be remotely successful in the server OS market if they didn't already own the desktop) and looking only at the direct profits that come from Windows you're just wrong.

MS financial reports

[ChadTower]

.

[markrvp]

Awwww, come on Chad.  You KNOW shmokes knows better.  After all, he's still in college (at 27) and has Google.  That's way more credible than having years of experience as a software engineer at a major corporation. 

[shmokes]

Awwww, come on Chad.  You KNOW shmokes knows better.  After all, he's still in college (at 27) and has Google.  That's way more credible than having years of experience as a software engineer at a major corporation. 

Because being a software engineer at a major corporation tells Chad where MS is getting their money...  Chad's gut tells him that MS doesn't make much from OS sales for home computers.  My gut tells me that he's wrong.  That's all there is to it.

And you people crack me up attacking me for being in school, like I'm supposed to feel sheepish and embarrassed about it.  If it makes you feel any better, I've been the network administrator for a fairly large organization for the last six years.  It's a full-fledged career.  In fact, if I stayed here, instead of leaving soon to go to law school, I could retire with a full pension when I'm 45 years old.  It's not like I've been flipping burgers for the last ten years.  The fact that I'm "still" in school at 27 is a little misleading.  I started my degrees (B.A.s in Poli Sci and Info. Systems and a minor in French) in January 2003 and will finish them this December.  It takes the average student 5 years to complete just one degree.  I don't feel the least bit bad about coming in just shy of 4 years with 2 degrees plus a minor (especially while simultaneously working full-time). 

Seriously Mark, I'm ambitious and successful.  I'm fairly bright, too.  You'll do much better attacking the issues.  You just come off as a fool attacking me personally..

[markrvp]

I started my degrees (B.A.s in Poli Sci and Info. Systems and a minor in French) in January 2003 and will finish them this December.

[Bones]

My good old TI99/4A never caused this much anger.

CALL CLEAR

[danny_galaga]

i pointed my friend towards this thread as he really likes Linux and really hates MS (heck, he had a site called windows1984.com!). Personally, i use MS and am too lazy to learn about anything else but i follow this thread with interest and not much to contribute. Here's what my friend has to say:

"did u know?

* google runs on top of ~ 100,000 linux servers

  http://www.internetnews.com/dev-news/article.php/3491026

* microsoft is deploying a massive linux based wireless lan
  which will serve 25,000 employees in 60 countries:

  http://www.computerworld.com.au/index.php/id;754084996;fp;16;fpid;0

* microsoft has in the past used a distributed linux
  web server network called "akamai" to protect it's web
  site against distributed denial of service attacks.

  http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/08/19/1061261127586.html

* al jazeera tried to use akamai to protect its web presence, but,
  since it hates freedom too much, its contract was cancelled.

  http://news.com.com/1200-1035-995546.html

* hotmail was built on solaris (UNIX) and continued to run solaris
  for several years after it was acquired by MS.

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hotmail

* the mac OS X safari web browser is built on the open source
  khtml redering engine, with improvements flowing in both
  directions:

  http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/safari/

* the mac OS X kernel ("darwin") - which is the core of the
  operating system was derived in part from opensource
  freebsd ( which allows re-use of its code, in closed products ).

  apple now supports a parallel "opendarwin" Mac OS project,
  with improvements flowing between darwin and opendarwin.

* sun solaris is now opensource software:

  http://www.sun.com/software/solaris/
  http://www.opensolaris.com

* linksys and cisco wireless routers have in the past,
  allegedly used linux inside their devices - violating
  the copyrights of the owners.

  http://lwn.net/Articles/51570/

* venezuela is moving all-of-its-goverment off microsoft
  and onto open source. note that the headline warns
  "but faces challenges" - this is referring to challenges
  from microsoft.

  http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/news.php?newsno=1439

  ( there are many examples of non-US countries around
    the world ditching MS )

* opera web-browser is built on top of QT opensource
  graphics library, which is why it works on so many different
  platforms (windows, mac, etc), including mobile phones
  ( with qtopia )

  http://www.overclockersclub.com/?read=2066112

* many opensource companies and projects make money,
  in some cases, millions of dollars - mysql, trolltech, redhat.

  MSFT vs RHAT
  http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=MSFT&t=5y&l=off&z=m&q=l&c=RHAT

* individuals and small companies, especially, stand to make
  a lot of money out of this stuff.

  eg. US opensource developers sell support and training
  for their project.

  http://www.etherealsoft.com/

  eg. italian company NXmachine.com opensourced the core components
  of its remote desktop software, but continues as a commercial entity
by
  providing support and closed-source server side NX software.

  http://www.nomachine.com/index.php

  eg. australian IT company has at least 30 employees, and provides
open
  source content management solutions - they make money from support,
  and development of special closed-source add-ons for customers.

  http://www.squiz.net

#

but this stuff is mostly "under the radar", meanwhile, the
microsoft "shock and awe" campaign rages on around us.

just hold tight.

ps. i'll send you the next ubuntu live CD when it is released
in april, so you can see where the linux desktop is up to,
you can run it, even save files and install software, without
disturbing your installed windows OS or hard drive."

hehe. the last part obviously relates to my fear of trying anything different  for fear of 'screwing it up'. took quite a bit of convincing for me just to try firefox!

[Bones]

[ChadTower]

Because being a software engineer at a major corporation tells Chad where MS is getting their money...

[shmokes]

Don't forget humble and soft-spoken.   

Well....I wouldn't go so far as that.  In fact, I'm a right bastard in those respects.

[Harry Potter]

That's mfunnt cause i'm drunk

[mr.Curmudgeon]

* al jazeera tried to use akamai to protect its web presence, but,
  since it hates freedom too much, its contract was cancelled.

Pooooooooliiiiiiiiitiiiiiiiiiiiicssssss!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!           


mrC

[Harry Potter]

politics rule.

i love geroge bush and the other guy who's the USA president.


Cheney?

[mr.Curmudgeon]

Funnnay!!!   


mrC

[SithMaster]

This thread is about unity; the fusion of Mac and Intel. Flowers and candy for everyone!

forget the flowers and the unity wheres my candy

all i really care about is being able to type some docs, play some fps games and listen to music.  macs are more expensive then my current pc was a year ago so i went with a windows os pc.  but i really dont think i am going to get a new pc until im 50 so i dont have to worry.  and by then hopefully some good games for the pc will be out.

[shmokes]

Because being a software engineer at a major corporation tells Chad where MS is getting their money...  Chad's gut tells him that MS doesn't make much from OS sales for home computers.  My gut tells me that he's wrong.  That's all there is to it.

Actually, a decade of experience in maintaining corporate licensing agreements is what forms my opinion.  People outside the industry have NO IDEA how much money a company will pay for a site license for the OS... then take that figure and multiply it by TEN for development/IDE laden OS licenses... this doesn't even figure SERVER licensing.  A 4 CPU XP Server license, for ONE BOX, is well into the thousands.

Why is a software engineer, rather than your IT people maintaining your corporate licenses?  That don't make no sense, especially in a large corporation. 

[ChadTower]

I haven't always worked in a large corporation, and I haven't always been software engineer.  I was for a while, but now I'm actually something like Configuration Management Lead Architect.

[JackTucky]

I know kung-fu.

Shmokes signature troll.......

"shmokes probably votes communist and protests freedom on the weekends"

C'mon, I need my spot back.


JackTucky

[shmokes]

I haven't always worked in a large corporation, and I haven't always been software engineer.  I was for a while, but now I'm actually something like Configuration Management Lead Architect.

Great title!  Just technical enough to sound important and difficult, just vague enough that nobody knows exactly what in hell it means.  That'll look good on a resume.

[ChadTower]

Well, half right...

People in software engineering would know exactly what it means, and it actually is pretty specific.  Configuration Management isn't a grey area thing but it is one of those areas that one would not know about unless they were in a software development organization.  I'm sure there are titles like that in a lot of engineering fields.  Call in an internal service, I guess.

That said, yeah, it is a little overblown.   

[shmokes]

C'mon, I need my spot back.


JackTucky

Yeah....your time of having the honor of that spot was kind of short lived.  Bad luck.  But getting a compliment like that from someone like Markrvp is so unlikely that I had no choice.  Better luck next time.

[MustardTent]

Well, half right...

People in software engineering would know exactly what it means, and it actually is pretty specific.

[shmokes]

Hah!   Chad's no saint.  Masochist is a much more likely explanation.   

[Grasshopper]

..... but now I'm actually something like Configuration Management Lead Architect.

Lol, I refuse to believe that isn't just four random words strung together.

Actually strangely enough, no matter what order you put the words in, you still end up with a vaguely plausible job title.

How do you find the time to do such a mysterious job and still be on this message board 24/7?

[ChadTower]

I work as a software engineer and have been developing kernel-space software for Embedded Linux for some time now.  I worked as a Configuration Manager for a while as well.  It is a very well defined job.  Unfortunately, you need tons of patience (the userbase is a bunch of know-it-all developers), and you need tons of time.

Chad, I did not enjoy working as a CM, but I very clearly (and painfully) understand the need for the role.   You must be a saint to do this full-time.

You need to be a saint to be a script monkey junor CM guy, if you have the option to be something else.  Once you get up into the senior levels it's a lot more developing internal tools, implementing enterprise solutions like version control and state transition engines for stuff like bug tracking and ticketing systems, and defining policy across development groups.  It's more tolerable and you don't have to take all the crap the lower CM guys do.  I did my time as a lower level guy, but being in my early 20s, it didn't SEEM like crap because I was just happy to be there.

[danny_galaga]

* al jazeera tried to use akamai to protect its web presence, but,
  since it hates freedom too much, its contract was cancelled.

Pooooooooliiiiiiiiitiiiiiiiiiiiicssssss!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!           


mrC

but only a little...