8 way? 4 way? ultimate or super? and other questions

[SillyClown]

I beg anyone's forgiveness if this has been a massively asked question. (I just can't seem to get a proper answer from using the search tool).  But first let me do a short introduction.

Obviously I am a newbie to this board now but I must say what a treasure this place is! As like many of you I stumbled upon the ROM scene several years back and never put a thought to building my own cabinet. Well now after a short visit here I have the bug and really want to build one.

Questions:

I love the classics just as everyone else here BUT I also love some of the more 'modern' fighting games such as Killer Instinct 1 and 2, Street Fighter 1 - Alpha Z er whatever it was   .  What is a recommended joy stick to have? I see the Happ Super Joystick is recommended by plenty of members here but I also see people talking about the p360's and the Ultimate, etc, etc. If I am going to be doing some heavy fighting games with a game of frogger and galaga here and there what is the recommended tool of control?

Last question for everyone (hopefully   ) :

I read up on ghosting so I realize that can be an issue in using some keyboard encoding. But I also read that it is virtually impossible to have 2 people play a fighting game due to all the button combinations that can be pressed at a single moment. Is there a way around this? Is there a recommended encoder to avoid this problem? I see the KE72 used in some absolutely amazing setups. Perhaps that is what I should take a look at in more detail. But I just would like some input from the community here before I go and squander my extra cash  

Thanks in advance,
Chris

[eightbit]

http://www.oscarcontrols.com/ has a excellent comparison/review of the competition, super, and ultimate sticks. Those 3 sticks are relatively close in price. He didn't review the p360 but basically its a super with optical switches instead of microswitches. They actually make a kit to convert the super to a p360. The p360 is normally $40 so no matter how good it is its out of the reach of most of us. Till March 31 the p360 is on sale for $25, I ordered 2 yesterday. The Supers are normally $15 but they are also on sale right now for $8 so I ordered 4 of those also.

Those sticks aren't your only choices though. http://ultimarc.com has 3 more sticks you might want to check out. The t-stick is my favorite 4/8 way switchable stick. The e-stick has nice action but I don't like it as much in 4 way mode.

[MrBond]

The general preference is the Happs Supers.  However, some prefer the competition for fighting games because you can "feel" the corners (ie. for blocking).  Older games go best with a 4-way, or even 2-way.  You can get a restrictor plate from Oscarcontrols.com to convert a 8-way to a true 4-way, or just buy a 4-way stick seperately.  It's kind of nice to have a "dedicated" 4-way, but it's your personal preference.
Have no idea about the p360's.  People say they're great...but even $25 is expensive for one joystick.  (I bought 2 8-way/4-way swappable joysticks and 20 microswitch pushbuttons from a company called xgaming on Ebay for $28 after shipping.  They don't have any auctions for joysticks up right now...but here's there seller list..
http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&userid=xgamingauctions&include=0&since=-1&sort=3&rows=25

Here's my auction...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3200239909&category=13718

Anyhow, xgaming joysticks seem to be great for me...I have to get used to the microswitches though...I'm used to leaf switch on my Wico's.

As for the Interface, either go with the KE72 as you suggested, the IPAC from ultimarc.com, or the keywiz at http://www.groovygamegear.com/page5.html

Check out there different features and decide which is best for your preferences and budget...I perfer the IPAC, it works EXCELLENT and is cheap at about $50 after shipping.  Plus Andy is a real nice guy and will answer any questions.

Have Fun!!!

[2slk]

 I'm a relative newbie as well and went through exactly what you seem to be going through right now. I just started building my 1st panel this evening. For what it's worth, my joystick and encoding concerns were exactly the same as yours.

 After all my research and flip-flopping, I finally decided to go with the sticks (j-stick) available from Ulitmarc (site mentioned below). These sticks seem to offer the best 8/4 way option where ease of changeover is concerned and the widest amount of versatility for the types of games that you mention.

 As for the feel, some people say this or that stick feels better for this or that type of game for various personal reasons. I figure it's all a matter of preference and though a certain stick may not be 100% ideal for a given game, one could get used to it. After all, any stick has to be better than a keyboard. I can't foresee differences in sticks having such a huge impact on game play as to make it unpleasant or simply not worth it. After all, I've played games in arcades where the original sticks were replaced with all sorts of different sticks. They felt different sure, but it never made it not worth the 25 cents.

 As for encoding, I went with the I-PAC and OPTI-PAC, available from Ultimarc. This encoder was the clear preference winner in a recent poll in this very forum. It seems to offer the best price/feature benefits and offers the best ease of use for those who are not very good with this sort of tinkering (like myself!).

 As for where to buy, in my personal experience I have found Ultimarc, Oscar Controls and Bob Roberts to be highly professional, courteous and helpful. Purchase from them with confidence.

 So I hope this has helped you out a bit. Best of luck.  

[lightspeed]

I'm using Supers as IMHO they offer the best solution for playing all games, but I'm now considering upgrading to the the P360s.  We'll just have to see....


I have to admit to "cheating" when wiring this thing- I began travelling a lot for business, and saw my time available to get it togther shrink considerably.  Since I have a relatively simple panel (2 eight way sticks, 6 buttons each, and one true 4-way), I bought a prewired JAMMA+ harness from Bob Roberts and hooked the 8-ways and 3 buttons each to the JPAC.   I used two other simpler harnesses for the 4-way and remaining buttons, wired into the extra terminals on the JPAC.

I like Andy's products - no ghosting and reasonably priced.  I have however maxed out my inputs - between the JAMMA "kicks" harness and the 4 way, I have no more thumb terminals available.

If you're short on time or patience, you may want to consider just outright buying the JAMMA harness and JPAC - it made hookups a lot easier.   However, it may not be the best solution if you have a more complex panel.

[SillyClown]

hey thanks for all these replies. and I just checked out the Jsticks from Ultimarc. That may be what I will be going with. It's somewhat of a contest between that and the supers. We shall see. My only other problem and concern now is....where am I going to put my cabinet when it's done??  

We have a home that is only around 830 square feet with an unfinished basement. Perhaps this would complete the furnishing in our living room...hehe.

[eightbit]

We have a home that is only around 830 square feet with an unfinished basement. Perhaps this would complete the furnishing in our living room...hehe.

Unfinished basement sounds like a game room waiting to happen...

[BeBoxer]

hey thanks for all these replies. and I just checked out the Jsticks from Ultimarc. That may be what I will be going with. It's somewhat of a contest between that and the supers.

I've got two of the Jsticks myself, and haven't tried the supers. From what I can gather from personal experience and from reading the reviews at Oscars the main difference between the two is the shape of the restrictors. The Jsticks move in a square shape in 8-way mode, with distinct corners. I think the supers move in a circular fashion. It seems like a lot of folks prefer the square shape for fighers, since the corners are distinct. For other games, the round is better. Playing Gyruss for example is a little rough with the Jsticks. I think I'll probably get a couple of supers myself so I'll have both. It's really a matter of personal preference I think.

[unclet]

I use four 8-way Super's and one 4way Super in my cabinet and they work great.  Although what even makes it better is that HappControls is having a "very" good sale on their Super Joysticks right now....

[Odonadon]

The general preference is the Happs Supers.  However, some prefer the competition for fighting games because you can "feel" the corners (ie. for blocking).  

Amen to that.  I bought 2 Competitions and a Super (just to see what it was like).  I can't stand it.  Like the reviews say, the diagonals are all but impossible to hit.  Total crapsville for fighters (and, well, most other games too...).  I don't see the point.  And if anyone wants a Super, I have one for sale

Odonadon

[neuromancer]

Look at the joystick offerings from

www.ultimarc.com

They seem to be specifically designed for you and me. I went with happ supers, but IF I were going to buy some today, I would definately get the ultimarcs.

8 way sticks with a built in 4 way restrictor. And it helps support the DIY community!

Bob

[Grasshopper]

The general preference is the Happs Supers.  However, some prefer the competition for fighting games because you can "feel" the corners (ie. for blocking).  

Amen to that.  I bought 2 Competitions and a Super (just to see what it was like).  I can't stand it.  Like the reviews say, the diagonals are all but impossible to hit.  Total crapsville for fighters (and, well, most other games too...).  I don't see the point.  And if anyone wants a Super, I have one for sale

Odonadon

I've tried both the Supers and the Competitions in arcades and I agree with that.

The Competitions make better 8 way joysticks primarily because it is very hard to hit diagonals on the Supers even with the hourglass actuator in the 8 way position.

I think one reason why many people say the Supers are better general purpose joysticks is because they make a reasonable stab at 4 way games. However they are no substitute for a genuine 4 way joystick with a diamond shaped restrictor.

Unfortunately, the competitions are hopeless for 4 way games. Try playing Pacman with one and you'll see what I mean.

Another advantage to the Supers is that they have a better shaped handle (IMHO). However there is nothing to stop you fitting a Super handle to a Competition base.

The best joystick of all though is the Ultimarc/IL T-Stik (again IMHO).

[eightbit]

The best joystick of all though is the Ultimarc/IL T-Stik (again IMHO).

I second that, I love the t-stick. I just got some supers and some p360's so I'll give them a try but I love my t-stick especially in 4 way. Its the best 4/8 way switchable that I've used. I didn't like my ultimates or my e-stick.

[RoadhawK]

The best joystick of all though is the Ultimarc/IL T-Stik (again IMHO).

I have to agree with that as well. I bought 2 T's and 1 J-stick just to try out and i am more than pleased with them. They're great for fighters and great for 1942, Galaga.... However some people prefer further travel on the stick than these give.

I like the sound of the P'360's though so may try them on my cabinet when i build it. I wonder if they are on sale in the UK as well?, anyone know?.