ArcadeVGA and Windows 98

[dax]

I am having problems getting the ArcadeVGA card under Windows 98 working with a converted NeoGeo cabinet using the AVGA and the J-Pac.  Everything is hooked up right, but a lot of the info that comes with the ArcadeVGA card appears to be inaccurate.  I'm wondering if anyone else has had this experience?  When I follow the instructions, things don't work right.  When I play around with other settings, I can get the system working, but I'm still trying to get this card to display games in the best possible format.  Any advice or recommendations is greatly appreciated!

[RayB]

Wow man. Other than mentioning "ArcadeVGA" and "Windows 98", you provided zero *specific* information for anyone to even attempt to help you.

Me, I installed the AVGA card and it was instantly working. I didn't even install the Windows drivers. I left Windows in the default 800x600 vga resolution (or is it 640x480? I'll have to check). I use DOS for the games. So I didn't care or need to change Win's resolution.

[dax]

Ok, here are the details:

Neo Geo cabinet, fully-operational, with a Wells Gardner Model 25K7193 monitor with a Zenith picture tube.

I am connecting a P3-550 with 448MB RAM with an ArcadeVGA going into a JPAC. 

Basically, I've had so many problems with the AVGA drivers I was merely wondering if ANYONE was actually running this card under Win98.  I had to do almost the opposite of most of the installation/configuration instructions in order to get this thing to even boot up properly.

Right now, my main problem is, I can only run 640x480 and have it look ok in Windows, but it still seems something is off because the display looks a bit washed out (the intro windows spash screen comes in perfectly but then the desktop seems to switch into a different mode).  I'm running at 640x480x32b with "default monitor".

The AVGA ATI cpanel doesn't recognize that there are ATI drivers installed.  I installed and re-installed everything.  Hardware accelleration in advanced display options causes a BSOD. If I enable "plug and play" monitor it says the equipment is incompatible and screws up the drivers.  It installs two displays and two adapters automatically - even if I remove one.  I guess the AVGA is two video cards in one?  I have the VGA out going to the JPAC and the quality is iffy, but I can see that there is potential and something is set wrong.

I can run the display in 800x600 and 1024x768 but the bottom is pinched and some of the monitor controls up front don't seem to help.  There may be some on the back but it's still pretty bad quality so I keep it at 640x480 because at least that's usable.  I don't know what native resolution i can run windows in and it seems to affect the resolution of the games.

Now on to MAME.....

The side-scroller, horizonally-mounted games look PERFECT.  The vertical games come out MUCH MUCH smaller than I would expect.  I am not sure if this is the best I can do or what, but it sure sucks.  On games like pengo or joust or frogger, the screen is tiny... much smaller than it should probably be.  I tried to run the auto-res utility but it gave me an "Error 53" and wouldn't create ini files.  Furthermore, I tried both with an old version of mame32 and the latest one, and the settings recommend by avga don't work properly... i can't set stretch hardware to OFF because it's greyed out but the avga manual says this only happens if you're not running in 16b or 32b mode but I am.. so it's confusing as hell.  The vertical sync was completely off if I set the 'switch resolutions to fit=ON" as directed in the docs, but if I set it to the opposite, it worked... so at least half the info in the install seems to be wrong - I have to set it to the opposite to get things working.. It's very frustrating.. I'd just like to have some starting point where I can figure out if I'm on track with this.  Andy at ultimarc is awol and I have no place to turn.

[dax]

Some additional inquiries....

* what resolution should I run under windows?  what will this monitor support?  I can't figure that out.  It seems to go beyond what it supposedly can handle (i.e. 1024x768) with that same bottom pinching problem.

* What's the best, most trouble-free MAME front end I should consider that will make the games look their best?

* I am taking an older P3-550 PC that I used to run with a computer monitor and a Hot Rod interface and sticking it in an arcade cabinet.. the older versions of MAME I ran didn't seem to have lag/slowness problems as the newer versions... I'm not sure what to do.. it seems like the later versions of MAME are a lot more resource-hungry and require faster cpus?  When I run the latest version of mame32 on this PC, many games are just unnaturally slow... if I was happy with my choice of games with the older version should I go back to it or am I going to have problems with older version compatibility issues with the current setup?  I think I was running .36-39 or something. 

[RayB]

* what resolution should I run under windows?

[RayB]

As for your other problems, I've read that some people need to use an "ATI uninstall tool" to completely rid their system of any video drivers, so they can do a fresh install of the AVGA drivers.


When you said you tried one mode and the VSYNC was off, you were supposed to adjust your monitor's VSYNC knob!  Resolutions vary in signal, from 50 to 60 hz. Most games use 60, but some use lower. For example, I bet you'd get the same vertical problem if you tried Mortal Kombat. That game uses 53hz. So you end up having to adjust your vsync knob until the picture is stable. usually there is a "sweet spot" with the knob, where the picture will remain stable in both modes.

So no, the avga instructions were not "the opposite".

[dax]

As for your other problems, I've read that some people need to use an "ATI uninstall tool" to completely rid their system of any video drivers, so they can do a fresh install of the AVGA drivers.

I tried that (both in safe and regular mode), and it didn't make a difference.   I was able to get the drivers installed only after I went through a hundred different permutations of settings that were not detailed in the instructions.  Andy e-mailed me and said hardware accelleration shouldn't make a difference, but it does.  I get a BSOD if I enable it past the second mark.  I also got all sorts of incompatibility issues if i had the "plug and play monitor" item checked - and I couldn't find anywhere in the instructions where it said that setting mattered, but apparently it does.

When you said you tried one mode and the VSYNC was off, you were supposed to adjust your monitor's VSYNC knob!  Resolutions vary in signal, from 50 to 60 hz. Most games use 60, but some use lower. For example, I bet you'd get the same vertical problem if you tried Mortal Kombat. That game uses 53hz. So you end up having to adjust your vsync knob until the picture is stable. usually there is a "sweet spot" with the knob, where the picture will remain stable in both modes.

So no, the avga instructions were not "the opposite".

I could not find any "sweet spot" with the vsync.  The two modes were pretty damn disparate.  As I said before, many of the instructions did not work for me and I had to do the opposite.  YMMV but I'm not making this up.  Some info was downright wrong... I can not un-check boxes that the instructions say I should be able to, and others, if I set them the opposite, things work better, such as the "switch resolution to fit".

It is very weird .  It appears the hardware works fine, but there may be some software glitches, and I've cleaned out the system very good so I can't find anything else that would interfere.

[dax]

* what resolution should I run under windows?  what will this monitor support?  I can't figure that out.  It seems to go beyond what it supposedly can handle (i.e. 1024x768) with that same bottom pinching problem.

640x480 and 800x600 are probably as high as you should go. Even these resolutions will be "interlaced" though. You will NEVER get a nice crisp screen in Windows, unless you chose a crazy low-res like 320x240.

* What's the best, most trouble-free MAME front end I should consider that will make the games look their best?

The Front end has NO impact on how games look. MAME's configuration is what controls that.

* I am taking an older P3-550 PC that I used to run with a computer monitor and a Hot Rod interface and sticking it in an arcade cabinet.. the older versions of MAME I ran didn't seem to have lag/slowness problems as the newer versions... I'm not sure what to do.. it seems like the later versions of MAME are a lot more resource-hungry and require faster cpus?  When I run the latest version of mame32 on this PC, many games are just unnaturally slow... if I was happy with my choice of games with the older version should I go back to it or am I going to have problems with older version compatibility issues with the current setup?  I think I was running .36-39 or something. 

Yes, newer versions require more resources and run older games slower. You're on the right track going back to an older build.

Do you have any advice on what would be the best front end and MAME version to use?  Do I need older or newer ROM versions if I switch to a legacy version of MAME?  Will I run into any problems if I use an older version of MAME with the latest set of ROMs?

Where exactly are the config instructions for game resolution stored?

I am still trying to figure out what modes this monitor supports but the historical links to the manuals are no longer active.  I'm wondering if there is a game that has a refresh rate in the 50hz area, whether that's a problem or not.  It seems the monitor will do 60hz but I can't tell what the refresh rate is at any given moment.. is there a way to tell what mode it's in?

[RayB]

How "clean" was your install of Windows? Had you done a format and fresh installation? I'm just wondering if your problems are due to lots of different remnant driver files or who knows.

I can't help much further because I use DOS. Like I said, I didn't even install the AVGA drivers at all. (Hey that reminds me, do you have the proper version of DirectX installed? I think AVGA requires 8.0 or higher?)

Where exactly are the config instructions for game resolution stored?

You're gonna have to read up alot on this. I don't know off hand other than that I have MAME.CFG configured to "auto", so that it decides itself what resolution is best. Then in some versions of MAME you can also create a GAME.INI (where "GAME" is actually the name of the game rom) and in there you can set different options that will over-ride the ones in MAME.CFG / MAME.INI.

Also, the option that says monitor type, make sure you DON'T have it set to "arcade". You do not need to set this option if you use an AVGA.

I am still trying to figure out what modes this monitor supports but the historical links to the manuals are no longer active.

[subcriminal]

Sounds like you need to run the MAME resolution tool from MameWah's site to generate .ini's for your ROMs , they'll be displayed in the right resolution then. If you try to display a 300x200ish image at 640x480 it'll be half the size. Disable DirectX and just play with the normal display settings in the mame.ini to start with make sure you have the mame.ini instructions from mame.net printed out (easier on the eyes!)
I ran the AVGA under Windows 98 but XP boots faster so it wins otherwise it seems to set up the same.
Go 640x480 interlaced for Windows. CGA resolutions require desktop panning to scroll around.

Edit: Sorry if I read lightly over some reply's, I'm drunk(ish).

[dax]

How "clean" was your install of Windows? Had you done a format and fresh installation? I'm just wondering if your problems are due to lots of different remnant driver files or who knows.

I can't help much further because I use DOS. Like I said, I didn't even install the AVGA drivers at all. (Hey that reminds me, do you have the proper version of DirectX installed? I think AVGA requires 8.0 or higher?)

it's a clean install; i have direct x 9.0b

I'd love to run ArcadeOS - I'm testing it now.  I finally got it to display properly on the monitor.  The problem is I can't figure out how to freakin' add roms into it.  The game list is empty and the config doesn't seem to have a place to specify rom locations... it's really frustrating.

[dax]

Sounds like you need to run the MAME resolution tool from MameWah's site to generate .ini's for your ROMs , they'll be displayed in the right resolution then. If you try to display a 300x200ish image at 640x480 it'll be half the size. Disable DirectX and just play with the normal display settings in the mame.ini to start with make sure you have the mame.ini instructions from mame.net printed out (easier on the eyes!)
I ran the AVGA under Windows 98 but XP boots faster so it wins otherwise it seems to set up the same.
Go 640x480 interlaced for Windows. CGA resolutions require desktop panning to scroll around.

Edit: Sorry if I read lightly over some reply's, I'm drunk(ish).

I ran this utility and it generated an error 53 (file not found)... not sure what file it was looking for. 

Where does it place these .ini files?  I can't find them anywhere.  All I can find are .cfg files, but this may be associated with a legacy version of mame .37 or so that I'm running.

[RayB]

Older versions of mame, and DOS versions of MAME don't have .ini files for games, unfortunately.

PS: I use GameLauncher.

[dax]

What version of Mame switched from .cfg to .ini, or are they two different things?  Where are the .ini files?  Does this mean that unless I use the new version of Mame I can't take advantage of the auto-resolution-setting utilities for the AVGA?

[RayB]

I'm not sure. I'm using 0.78 DOS (DMAME) which does not have .ini support, but apparently the Windows Command Line version (of 0.78) does.

[Hoopz]

Do I need older or newer ROM versions if I switch to a legacy version of MAME? Will I run into any problems if I use an older version of MAME with the latest set of ROMs?

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