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Author Topic: Good way of attaching side panels without punching holes through them?  (Read 3967 times)

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Tahnok

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So my bartop is almost complete and I am considering my next venture (maybe a vertical monitor). One of the little things I hate about both my cabs though is that I had to put numerous holes through the sides for fasteners. I counter-sunk them and filled them with putty, but you can still see them. I am less than a decent woodworker; I don't have experience with common wood joints.

Any ideas/suggestions? I will probably be using 0.5" particle board (or plywood), if that matters.
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Re: Good way of attaching side panels without punching holes through them?
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2005, 06:53:32 pm »
Use a block on the inside between 2 joints and attach everything from inside the cab.  Imagine putting a block of wood in every corner where two boards meet on the inside and screwing that block to the panels.  I'm probably not explaining it clearly but you shouldn't have to drill through the outside of your cab...

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Re: Good way of attaching side panels without punching holes through them?
« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2005, 06:59:36 pm »
Use a block on the inside between 2 joints and attach everything from inside the cab.  Imagine putting a block of wood in every corner where two boards meet on the inside and screwing that block to the panels.  I'm probably not explaining it clearly but you shouldn't have to drill through the outside of your cab...
Yeah, that's similar to what I did last time, except I drilled though the outside. It seems like it would be difficult to get it to grab into the side panel from the inside when it is only 0.5" thick. I'm also a bit weary of creating a bulge on the outside where the screw goes in. Is either something I should worry about?
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Re: Good way of attaching side panels without punching holes through them?
« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2005, 07:40:51 pm »
Dude,

After experiencing exactly the same problem you described and investing countless hours sanding and painting to conceal the construction evidence, I think next time I will just cover the sides with vinyl or laminate after a rough sand & clean.

You should be able to obtain structural strength and a nice finish without a whole heap of extra work & headaches.

It's just a thought and will definitely be my approach to the problem next time around......

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« Last Edit: December 07, 2005, 09:28:09 pm by BrokenBones »

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Re: Good way of attaching side panels without punching holes through them?
« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2005, 09:24:52 pm »
You can use dowels and gorilla glue.  Even though the dowels will only go in to the sides 1/4" or so, combined with the gorilla glue it will make a joint that you won't be able to get apart.
Lining up the dowels is a bit tricky, but you can get a dowel jig for about $20.  You need to clamp the stuff together pretty tight to get the gorilla glue to really take, so use bar clamps if you have them.
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Re: Good way of attaching side panels without punching holes through them?
« Reply #5 on: December 07, 2005, 10:33:24 pm »
You could go with the Ikea hardare as explained in this thread. I didn't do this, but it would work. A bit of a pain to align the posts and bolts, but would definately work. Also has benefit of being able to be taken apart...

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=40990.msg373304#msg373304
 
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Re: Good way of attaching side panels without punching holes through them?
« Reply #6 on: December 07, 2005, 10:44:54 pm »
You could go with the Ikea hardare as explained in this thread. I didn't do this, but it would work. A bit of a pain to align the posts and bolts, but would definately work. Also has benefit of being able to be taken apart...

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=40990.msg373304#msg373304
 

There must be some 'trick' to aligning these things. 

Whenever I think of building my own cab, I feel like I'd want to be able to "flatten" it down at some point if need be, so I've always thought about the cam-lock system, but it seems like there are many more ways to screw it up then to get it right...
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Re: Good way of attaching side panels without punching holes through them?
« Reply #7 on: December 08, 2005, 08:36:41 am »
Did the cam-lock thing... it worked well... not sure if it is worth it though.

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=43594.0
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Re: Good way of attaching side panels without punching holes through them?
« Reply #8 on: December 08, 2005, 05:29:01 pm »
I like the cam-lock idea, but it seems like a major pain. I may try it though; it will probably be easier with the small bartop pieces.

That thread you posted RetroACTIVE has helped a lot. A few questions:
  • It looks like in the first picture of reply #36 that you are having a hard time locking it in. Where they placed too far in?
  • How are they held in the wood? Are they glued in or just held in by friction?
  • Did you ever finish that paper? The excerpts looked very useful.
  • It sounds like all I'll need is the forester bit and the hardware, since I have a drill press. What other tools are needed?

Thanks for the help everyone!
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Re: Good way of attaching side panels without punching holes through them?
« Reply #9 on: December 08, 2005, 08:53:52 pm »
Stop using putty.  Use pre-mixed drywall compound.  It dries faster and is easier to sand.  Also, what a lot of people who are novices to filling screw holes is to fill the screw hole with just enough putty and then smooth it with the rest of the surrounding wood.  As it cures, it shrinks, meaning you have to fill it again.  Instead, fill the screw hole and leave it somewhat mounded.  It'll also take a while to cure, which is why I say use drywall compound.  It'll cure in far less time, meaning if it shrinks too much, you can easily fill it with more and have the whole thing done quite quickly.  Use a sander to even everything out with the sides.

Everything OTHER than screws has some alignment issues or strength issues or a combination of both.  Add in not being familiar with a lot of woodworking practices and you've got quite the quandry there.  A nice sliding dovetail would give you the nicest looking strong joint, for instance, but is impractical.

What you could do instead of putty is to buy either a plug cutter, pre-made plugs, or a dowel to jam in the holes and saw them flush with the sides.  Again, these still require sanding, so I'd suggest skipping those methods, since the only thing they'll end up doing to your cab is making it cost more
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Re: Good way of attaching side panels without punching holes through them?
« Reply #10 on: December 09, 2005, 12:22:44 am »
You could do what I did:



My side panels are removeable.  I countersunk bolt heads into the panel, then filled them with epoxy.  After the epoxy cured, I sanded flush, and laminated over the bolt heads.

Perfectly clean look from the outside.  Solid mount.  Easy to remove if necessary.

Also,  USE BONDO as a filler on these types of projects.  Excellent strength, waterproof, no expansion / contraction.  Full cure in 5 minutes.

There's a ton of detail on the attachment method I used for the removable sides on my web page.  It starts around day 43:

http://www.ogredog.com/mame_construction_home.htm#Day%2043

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Re: Good way of attaching side panels without punching holes through them?
« Reply #11 on: December 09, 2005, 12:46:26 am »
Lining up the dowels is a bit tricky, but you can get a dowel jig for about $20.  You need to clamp the stuff together pretty tight to get the gorilla glue to really take, so use bar clamps if you have them.

I agree that dowels are easier than wood putty and a million hours of sanding (which you can still see through the paint).  Rather than a dowel jig what I did was:
 - put a drop of glue in the counter sunk hole
 - hammered in a dowel
 - used a Japanese saw (which is simply a saw you can lay flat and with one or two pulls cleanly slice off the part of the dowel above the surface of the wood).  Just needs a bit of sanding and you're good.

I have made two cabinets and I used wood putty on the first and did the dowels on the second.  There is no comparison.  Dowels and Japanese saw are the way to go for me from now on.

Just my $0.02
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Re: Good way of attaching side panels without punching holes through them?
« Reply #12 on: December 09, 2005, 11:14:13 am »
i really don't mind sanding over my wood filler a million times.  each countersunk hole i had to fill 2 or 3 times because of shrinkage.  i'm waiting to see how it looks painted.....

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Re: Good way of attaching side panels without punching holes through them?
« Reply #13 on: December 09, 2005, 11:46:51 am »
Second the bondo.

It doesn't seem to shrink at all - and you get a nice buzz from the fumes, too.

It also is much tougher to chip, whereas putty always seems to fall out/get beat up when I use it.
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Re: Good way of attaching side panels without punching holes through them?
« Reply #14 on: December 09, 2005, 01:59:29 pm »

whereas putty always seems to fall out/get beat up when I use it.


so I said to my buddy "Rectum?  Darn near KILLED 'IM!"

You've got to start reading the labels on containers.  Or at least get your mind off dongles dangling daily....or something ;)
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Re: Good way of attaching side panels without punching holes through them?
« Reply #15 on: December 09, 2005, 03:40:00 pm »
"You've got to start reading the labels on containers."

So thats the problem.  Here, I thought it was for hemorrhoids.  The guy at Home Depot must've lied to me.

I suppose it could've been worse.




"Or at least get your mind off dongles dangling"

My avatar pic should set you straight.  :D

Oh, yeah...

I finally post something vaguely constructive and useful and Drew drags it into the EE realm.  Go figure.
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Re: Good way of attaching side panels without punching holes through them?
« Reply #16 on: December 09, 2005, 05:23:02 pm »

Oh, yeah...

I finally post something vaguely constructive and useful and Drew drags it into the EE realm.  Go figure.


A concrete casting of yer intestines is useful in exactly what way to us?  Next you'll be telling me our post counts aren't increasing with our EE posts.

WHAT?!?!??!

Um....Ed, what did you do?  They turned 'em off and they said it was because of you and your intestines.  Did you make another pass at Peale?
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Re: Good way of attaching side panels without punching holes through them?
« Reply #17 on: December 09, 2005, 06:08:52 pm »
Quote
It looks like in the first picture of reply #36 that you are having a hard time locking it in. Where they placed too far in?

The lock is on the inside of the cab so you don't see it... it isn't too far in, I think the pic is misleading you.

Quote
How are they held in the wood? Are they glued in or just held in by friction?

They are pressed in holes cut by a forsner bit

Quote
Did you ever finish that paper? The excerpts looked very useful.
I've received more requests for it since you asked... I will be updating it as soon as I can.

Quote
It sounds like all I'll need is the forester bit and the hardware, since I have a drill press. What other tools are needed?

Thats it really.. it is fairly simple.
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Re: Good way of attaching side panels without punching holes through them?
« Reply #18 on: December 10, 2005, 01:26:45 am »
Well then, the cam-locks sound like a pretty good route. I love the idea of making it so it can be disassembled easily (though originals didn't use cam-locks). Be sure to send me a PM when you get the paper done, or just post here. :)

Thanks for the help (even with the, rather odd, detour)!
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Re: Good way of attaching side panels without punching holes through them?
« Reply #19 on: December 10, 2005, 01:48:47 am »
Use a block on the inside between 2 joints and attach everything from inside the cab.  Imagine putting a block of wood in every corner where two boards meet on the inside and screwing that block to the panels.  I'm probably not explaining it clearly but you shouldn't have to drill through the outside of your cab...

Thats exactly how you do it.

Use screws that are shorter than the 3/4 wood so it won't go through but still grab the wood and hold it togeather.

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Re: Good way of attaching side panels without punching holes through them?
« Reply #20 on: December 10, 2005, 07:26:25 am »
Well then, the cam-locks sound like a pretty good route. I love the idea of making it so it can be disassembled easily (though originals didn't use cam-locks).

Just took apart and put back together a Sega System 3 Cab.....

They use Cam Locks......



 ;)


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Re: Good way of attaching side panels without punching holes through them?
« Reply #21 on: December 10, 2005, 09:02:33 am »
A concrete casting of yer intestines is useful in exactly what way to us? 

One DOES have to wonder how you knew what that picture was.  I never mentioned it.

Sorry for continuing to derail thread, guys.

Back OT.

Going to Home Despot to help a friend pick up the prerequisite sheets of MDF.  His wife wanted me to build him a cabinet like mine, I talked her into just buying all the fiddly bits like controls, t-molding, and an ipac, and letting him build it.

Going to try the 'screw into the MDF from the backside' technique.  I guess the glue is mandatory in this application, because I'm assuming a screw sunk 5/8" into MDF isn't going to hold at all???
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Re: Good way of attaching side panels without punching holes through them?
« Reply #22 on: December 10, 2005, 10:49:50 am »
A concrete casting of yer intestines is useful in exactly what way to us? 

One DOES have to wonder how you knew what that picture was.  I never mentioned it.


I come across the same wierd sites you do.  ;D

Quote

Going to try the 'screw into the MDF from the backside' technique.  I guess the glue is mandatory in this application, because I'm assuming a screw sunk 5/8" into MDF isn't going to hold at all???


You need to use Confirmat screws if you're gonna do it like that.  MDF doesn't like regular drywall screws, and will, over time, show just how much they detest them if you use them to screw into MDF.  If you're screwing through MDF into a piece of wood and NOT the other way around, you won't have the same problems.
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Re: Good way of attaching side panels without punching holes through them?
« Reply #23 on: December 10, 2005, 12:05:31 pm »
What about threaded inserts?   

Do they make any that will hold in MDF?   It seems like you could put them into each of your panels (near the edges) you could then bolt L-brackets in each corner (or even wood blocks) and have  the convenience of a cam-lock system without the potential problems of the cam-lock system (problems like: lining up all the holes correctly, hoping the 5 threads on the posts will hold in your MDF etc)
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