Grrr... I am still a suckass solderer

[ChadTower]

Yeah, maybe that iron is just junk.  I am getting tired of buying small tools, though, honestly.  I know it's part of the hobby but damn, I have two decent stations, now I have to buy a second pencil too... the Cold Heat thing turned out to be $20 into the toilet... just frustrated, mostly.

Didn't get to go to Radio Shack on the way home last night, will do so tonight, pick up the wire and known good solder.

[SirPeale]

...the Cold Heat thing turned out to be $20 into the toilet... just frustrated, mostly.

With all the bad press - ON THIS VERY SITE - about that POS, you *still* got one? 

[ChadTower]

Yeah, last year, when the item first came up for discussion.  It wasn't so well known an item then.

[ChadTower]

So, took one of the stations, some new 18g wire and some new solder.  Cut about 10 3" strips of wire.  Stripped both ends of each wire and soldered the ends together.  The first one was a mess, the second one a little better, and by the end I started to get good looking, shiny joins.

I got better results when I stripped more of the wire and made a clean, good looking and strong physical connection first.  I had to strip more insulation on either side than anticipated to do this.  I guess next step is more practice and some heat shrink tubing.  Or would electrical tape be just as effective?  I'm not going to use these practice strips for anything but I believe in practicing the way you play.

I still haven't gotten the hang of many of the techniques described above, though.  The only consistently effective way I found was to make the solid connection, wrap a bit of solder around the connection, and then actually touch the iron to the solder to melt it into the wires.  No combination like solder on top/iron on bottom would work.  The iron was on 40w.

[vader]

Chad,

Heatshrinking is easy provided you have good heatshrink.  The radioshack stuff is garbage IMO, but will work fine in a pinch.  The stuff I use is aviation grade and is really good.  I'm sure someone has some links to some better quality stuff.

Tim

[MaximRecoil]

The only consistently effective way I found was to make the solid connection, wrap a bit of solder around the connection, and then actually touch the iron to the solder to melt it into the wires.

That isn't really the best way to do it, or even a particularly good way to do it. It would be okay if you touched a bit of solder wire to the joint as you removed the iron. You want the iron and the solder wire you are feeding to the joint to leave the joint at the same time; this keep the flux flowing with no chance for it to burn out giving you a dull crappy joint and usually a peak as you pull the iron away.

No combination like solder on top/iron on bottom would work.

I made a 30 second 2.2mb MPG video (excuse the crappy webcam quality) demonstrating this with a well-used and cruddy $7 Radio Shack iron (30 watts). Right click the link and select "Save Target As..."

http://maxim.skyphix.com/solder.mpg

[ChadTower]

Dude that's awesome.  Much, much appreciated. 

First thing I noticed is that your tip is not black.  Gee, guess that could be part of my problem.  It's not even an old tip.

So, my problem is likely that I'm abusing the tip.  Burning solder on it so it won't transfer heat well. 

What I have so far:

Heat the iron -> tin the tip -> place against wire -> touch solder to wire, when wire is hot enough solder melts -> remove iron as solder melts -> wipe iron on damp sponge

Is that about right? 

I know this isn't really THAT hard. I figure I'm a reasonably competent guy, though, and if I'm having trouble with it, so will someone else.  Maybe this thread will help them out.

[vader]

Yeh...do what he did....thats a nice solder joint, but the points give it character  looks like little mountains

[MaximRecoil]

Yeh...do what he did....thats a nice solder joint, but the points give it character

[vader]

Ooop.....I mean some people leave points....yours is perfect.....I should have been more clear....my bad

Tim

[MaximRecoil]

Heat the iron -> tin the tip -> place against wire -> touch solder to wire, when wire is hot enough solder melts -> remove iron as solder melts -> wipe iron on damp sponge

Is that about right?

Yeah, you'll see the solder flow down through the wire and it will permeate it quickly when hot. Then remove the iron and solder wire at the same time.

I have actually done official solder training (both being a trainee and a trainer) when I worked in a PCB factory. I am SMT certified and soldered/inspected/repaired about 1000 PCB's a night for the 2 years I worked there. I did both surface-mount and through-hole. We had $500 Metcal MX500 irons that were the greatest thing since cheese in an aerosol can. The boards we built were for elaborate fire alarm systems like are used in schools and hospitals and such; they were categorized as "life-saving equipment" so they were extremely fussy about everything, from the soldering to the glassed in climate controlled environment to the static straps and anti-static coats.

But anyway, some types of soldering can be tricky like replacing a small 40 leg surface mount IC, but soldering a spliced wire together is pretty basic, and the same principles apply across the board for all types of soldering. If your joint is clean, you have enough heat and you have quality flux-core solder, it will solder. Keeping the tip cleaned and tinned is good practice, but not essential unless somehow the crud is thick enough to insulate the tip to the point that you aren't getting enough heat from it; though I can't say I've ever seen that happen.

[ChadTower]

The thing that gets me at this point is that you had that iron on the wire for only a couple of seconds... I could do it that way for 15 and not get the solder melted. 

[MaximRecoil]

The thing that gets me at this point is that you had that iron on the wire for only a couple of seconds... I could do it that way for 15 and not get the solder melted.

[ChadTower]

The other thing I noticed is that since you have iron in one hand, solder in the other, something else is holding the wires.

I should do that.  I have one of those helping hands things but never use it because the magnifying glass makes it tip over.  Dumb thing.

[RayB]

The thing that gets me at this point is that you had that iron on the wire for only a couple of seconds... I could do it that way for 15 and not get the solder melted.

[ChadTower]

Last night the iron heated up for a good 10 minutes while I was doing something else... I wonder if my irons just take a LONG time to get BACK to full heat after I've used it and wiped it with the sponge.

[MaximRecoil]

The thing that gets me at this point is that you had that iron on the wire for only a couple of seconds... I could do it that way for 15 and not get the solder melted.

[ChadTower]

How long would one expect the average $35 station iron, at 40w, to heat back up properly after a use?

Use -> wipe -> put back in cylinder

Would it take a minute?  5 minutes?

[MaximRecoil]

How long would one expect the average $35 station iron, at 40w, to heat back up properly after a use?

Use -> wipe -> put back in cylinder

Would it take a minute?

[ChadTower]

The solder I used last night is brand new, purchased from Radio Shack over the weekend.

The station itself was purchased from MCM about a year ago but only used maybe 5 times since.

[MaximRecoil]

When your iron is hot, what happens when you touch some solder wire to the tip? Does it melt it immediately? If so, your iron is hot enough. I'm assuming your solder is flux core? I can't imagine what the problem is; but if I had a hot iron, a clean joint-to-be-soldered and good flux core solder; and it would not solder, I would assume that I'd somehow entered the Twilight Zone or expect someone to jump out and say "Smile, you're on Candid Camera!"

[ChadTower]

Sometimes it melts, other times it just sits there... or gets soft and grey when it's evil.

[MaximRecoil]

Sometimes it melts, other times it just sits there... or gets soft and grey when it's evil.

The solder should melt instantly and flow around the tip, every time, all the time, for as long as you have it turned on. It sounds like your iron is wonky. Pick up a cheap one at Radio Shack and see how that does.

[ChadTower]

All three irons are wonky?  Two of them right out of the box?   

It has to be me somehow.

Could it have to do with taking too long between uses?  Say, I tin it, use it, then put it back and the tinned tip burns the solder on it? 

[MaximRecoil]

All three irons are wonky?

[Doughbroz]

If the tips on these irons are screwed into the base and/or held in by a screw, check for tightness.  They don't have to be super-tight, just snug.  Repeated heating and cooling tends to make them work loose. 

[ChadTower]

Dude, if I tried to melt solder on the brand new ceramic stovetop, my wife would jam my head on the burner.

[MaximRecoil]

Dude, if I tried to melt solder on the brand new ceramic stovetop, my wife would jam my head on the burner.

LOL. I just used that as a point to illustrate that heat is heat, and there is really no way to mess up a test to see if something hot will melt solder.

You could check to make sure any set screws on the iron are tight or whatever, like Doughbroz mentioned above, though the set screw on my iron has come loose several times and it has never affected it's ability to melt solder. I always retighten it so the tip doesn't fall out but that's all.

Unless you bought some of that heat-resistant solder from the same place they sell waterproof mops, clay hammers and teflon glue; then it has to be the irons that are at fault.

[SirPeale]

If you were closer I'd say bring the damn thing over and we'd give it a once-over.

[ChadTower]

Heh... I'll get it.  Like anything else, it's a learning process, and I'm being overly thorough about it.

[DrewKaree]

Chad, this is a bit of a long download since it's not specific to soldering (it's about making a cable) but just fast forward to where the guy solders the cable up.  He also is using something to hold the cable while he solders, but he's using a multi-directional vice.  Mebbe if you've got a vice....

http://revision3.com/systm/avcabling/media

[ChadTower]

Downloading now... the big wmv should only take about a half hour.

[DrewKaree]

Downloading now... the big wmv should only take about a half hour.

Try walking your father-in-law through downloading a file when he doesn't understand where it's going or how to find it....on dial-up.

He somehow managed to make an entire drive on his PC unuseable.

[krick]

I'm not sure if this was made clear or not but here's how I was taught to tin one of the radio shack type 15-30 watt irons.  If my technique isn't textbook perfect, I'm sure someone will chime in and correct it, but here you go...

1) with the iron cold, clean the tip with fine emory cloth, followed by some steel wool until it isn't black.  Usually, it will be shiny silver or copper or some combination depending on how much you had to sand it.

2) clean all the dust off with a damp cloth, let the iron fully dry.

3) heat the iron up until it will melt solder when you touch it directly to the tip.

4) unplug the iron, and begin rubbing solder all over the tip until it is covered and the solder wil no longer melt.  Let it completly cool.

5) heat the iron back up, and when it's hot, wipe off the excess solder on a damp sponge.  at the point the tip should be shiny and silver all over.  You should be ready to solder now.

 

[dabone]

I usually wear jeans when I solder, and wipe the tip every couple of solder joints on the leg of my jeans.

Just a little hot, but no sponge to worry about.

Also use a fine pointed tip. They are easier to control (at least for me)

http://www.kitsusa.net/phpstore/html/WELLER-WLC100-SOLDERING-STATION.html

This is the iron I have been using for the last 4 or 5 years.

http://www.action-electronics.com/wept1.htm

Of these tips I use a pth usually.

Using this type of equipment is a TON better than the radio shack crap irons.
(And not that expensive)


With this Iron I can solder 120v wires or tack solder onto motherboard traces.
5 to 40watts give you a wide range to work with.

[DrewKaree]

Basic Soldering Guide

http://www.epemag.wimborne.co.uk/solderfaq.htm

[ChadTower]

Nice, Drew.  I'm reading it now.  Work can wait.

[koz319]

I second the recommendation to get a soldering gun.  It provides much more heat, without having to wait for the iron to heat up.  I use one when replacing the coils and switches in my pin, works much better for these types of soldering jobs than my irons.  I picked mine up at the local home depot for something like $30. 

If you dont want to get a gun, what size tip are you using?  If the tip is too fine, it can be harder to get enough heat to the coil lug.   Also, be careful sanding your tips.   Some tips are jacketed, and if you sand through the jacket into the material underneath (can be copper) you have ruined the tip.

Anyway, good luck! 

Koz

(see pic of gun)

[SirPeale]

LOL...today I hear the sound of a propane torch, so I check out what's going on.  I see Cool Guy heating the tip of his soldering iron.  He says "Cool thing about these is you don't have to wait for your iron to heat up, you can just heat it with fire!"

[Doughbroz]

Yep, I have two of those Wellers lying around for big jobs.  When the tip burns in half, no need to buy new ones--just bend a piece of 14 gauge solid copper wire into the approximate shape and you're ready to go.  No need to fiddle with the ends so they go from inside to outside of the socket either.  Just stick them straight through from one side and tighten the jam nut.  Takes about 30 seconds and lasts just as long as a new tip.  You can also bend the wire to a desired shape and melt chunks out of a styrofoam block to pack parts in, store things, make insulators, all kinds of neat stuff.  You can also lay a nice straight piece of #12 wire in a sawn slot, hook the gun up to it, and heat plexi for bending.  Dunno how big a piece you could handle, but it worked great for a 90 degree bend in 3/16 plexi 12" wide.