Author Topic: 1st Control Panel layout (Read 4503 times)

JonnyBoy · « **on:** December 04, 2005, 08:03:15 pm »

This was made using the control panel design software that Mameroom uses for their custom panels. Tell me if you see any problems and have any suggestions. The button spacing seems a little too far apart to me, but that is how they had their 2 player default template set, so I followed it. The dashed lines show the Box underneat that the panel is going to be mounted on.

jcoleman · « **Reply #1 on:** December 04, 2005, 08:09:44 pm »

If you're using microswitch buttons, set the spacing to about 1 3/16". I've recently drilled a CP with that spacing and it looks and feels great.

Coleman

Roughy · « **Reply #2 on:** December 04, 2005, 08:22:38 pm »

I just did one at:

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=46587.msg447097#msg447097

I shifted the middle of the 3 columns up just a bit for a better ergo feel--to me, at least. I also didn't put any buttons above the trackball to avoid anyone nailing their hands.

Good luck!

JonnyBoy · « **Reply #3 on:** December 04, 2005, 08:28:38 pm »

Do you mind send me the .cpd file for your layout? I like the placement. My e-mail is jpanichella@gmail.com. Thanks!

Roughy · « **Reply #4 on:** December 04, 2005, 09:14:23 pm »

No problem. Done.

JonnyBoy · « **Reply #5 on:** December 04, 2005, 09:41:27 pm »

Okay, panel number 2. I used roughy's button layout with the slight arch. Any thought on spinner placement? Will it be difficult to deal with the player 1 buttons below the spinner?

Roughy · « **Reply #6 on:** December 04, 2005, 09:55:31 pm »

In the other thread, someone mentioned that they found that they use their spinner in a way that would be easier if on the other side.

I personally don't see it as much and am not certain I'll actually care about the spinner. Just remember the way a person will have to stand to use that.

JonnyBoy · « **Reply #7 on:** December 04, 2005, 10:00:26 pm »

I'm having second thoughts on spinner placement. I'm looking at myself using my computer and it would seem natural to press buttons with my left hand and use the spinner with my right... I'll switch it around and see how it looks.

JonnyBoy · « **Reply #8 on:** December 04, 2005, 10:11:37 pm »

Attempt 3. I added one more admin button to even out both sides, I may add another (one more terminal left on my ipac, might as well make it an admin function). What do you guys think?

Roughy · « **Reply #9 on:** December 04, 2005, 11:05:51 pm »

I think your 1p set all needs to shift to the left. Seems a little off center, then adjust trakball, etc.

Looks good, though.

dennis808 · « **Reply #10 on:** December 05, 2005, 05:32:55 am »

Why don't you choose to use the Shift button (default P1) on the I-Pac to get to all the Admin and Coin buttons?
From what I've read here it's really wise to make a cardboard mockup and play that for a while to figure out if you like it.
Are the two buttons above the trackball mouse1 and mouse2? Maybe i'ts a good idea to map them to 2 player buttons. You can then set MAME to use the mouse buttons as action-buttons.

JonnyBoy · « **Reply #11 on:** December 05, 2005, 07:18:36 am »

I know about the shift function, I was actually thinking of making each player have seven buttons instead of six. I was thinking about making one of the side mounted pinball buttons the shift button. Is there an advantage of setting the mouse buttons to action buttons?

Roughy I agree, the entire panel needs centered.

Thanks for the suggestions.

dennis808 · « **Reply #12 on:** December 05, 2005, 08:12:30 am »

Quote

Is there an advantage of setting the mouse buttons to action buttons?

Since you're only using the mouse-buttons when you're not playing games (navigating & configurating in Windows) I think it's a good idea to 'hide' them.
I really prefer the idea of ging buttons multiple functions instead of having a seperate button for everything, but that's because I don't have room for lot's of buttons on my CP.

I love the default setting of the I-Pac within MAME where you can adjust all the important things (ie volume, pause etc.) with just the P1 joystick and P1 buttons 1 & 2.

Here are two examples that made me want to have a clean control panel:

and

I hope I'm not offending anyone with these pics, but I wish all panels could look a bit more like this:

Lilwolf · « **Reply #13 on:** December 05, 2005, 09:50:55 am »

that last panel was very nice. Too bad they only put 5 buttons per side... a TON of games use all 6 buttons.

And if you don't htink you have enough room... your right... Either remove items or make a swappable control panel solution. But having too much too close sucks... making the controls not nearly as good as they should be.

Advantages to swappable control panels is each panel can be as simple as can be. And you can always add more when you get a good deal on lets say a defender joystick. Troubles are that most frontends can't handle them well. I wrote my own to handle it (but haven't released it because of problems with the joystick control, then lack of enthusiasm for the summer)

Moduler panels can be very very cool... but you have problems in that you will probably be the only one who could ever swap them.

And if you don't want to go that route... I would go with less with a dream to build a second arcade that handles a bunch of other games with different controls.

Or heck, spend a bit more on the joysticks and go with the happs 49 ways with floyds rotary adapter and you get 4way, 8way, 49way, partial analog, rotary all in one joystick. Then add a trackball and you have a non franken panel that has most of the controls you would ever want.

Roughy · « **Reply #14 on:** December 05, 2005, 09:52:40 am »

Part of what makes *any* of those work, however, is WHO they're for.

Personally, I agree with you that the last choice appears to be the best, for widespread usage.

Roughy · « **Reply #15 on:** December 05, 2005, 10:28:04 am »

Something I have to consider--and you may, too:

Consider dedicating 1-2 buttons next to the spinner as fire buttons. I hadn't thought of that.

dennis808 · « **Reply #16 on:** December 05, 2005, 11:32:49 am »

The orange CP is from BYOAC Member Knievel's built Flyercade:
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,30403.0.html

And the person he made it for, actually wanted 5 buttons...
at least in the beginning....

JonnyBoy · « **Reply #17 on:** December 05, 2005, 12:47:30 pm »

that's why I oriented the spinner the way I did, so they could be used with both the trackball and the spinner. I think my latest layout (with a tad bit of centering) will be my final decision. It provides me with all I need, and I already bought t-sticks for 4-way games and 8-way. I know that they aren't the most arcade acurate or best option, but they are good enough for what I need them for.

One last decision to make. Have two more admin buttons or add a seventh button to each player? Or just leave two spots empty on the encoder?

ahofle · « **Reply #18 on:** December 05, 2005, 02:57:07 pm »

One thing to be careful of with that spinner is putting it directly above the player 2 joystick. It may be OK, but you may be uncomfortable with having to keep your arm angled (or constantly elevated) to prevent you from hitting the joystick. I'd lay it out in cardboard and try it out first if possible. Maybe try moving it to the right a bit so it's not right above another joystick.

dennis808 · « **Reply #19 on:** December 05, 2005, 05:54:52 pm »

Quote

One last decision to make. Have two more admin buttons or add a seventh button to each player? Or just leave two spots empty on the encoder?

Leave the empty spots on the encoder, why add more buttons for functions that are already accesible?

BTW here's a pic of my control panel:

As you can see, not much real estate there! The red button is wired to the third black button since there are no arcade-games that use 7 buttons.

In six-button games it's setup like this:
- 123
- 456
- 3
In NeoGeo games like this:
- XXX
- 234
-1

I plan on adding a trackball and a better (amaller) spinner knob.

JonnyBoy · « **Reply #20 on:** December 05, 2005, 09:02:16 pm »

Okay, after a tad bit of rearranging....

What do you think? I made it so there is a clear path when spinning the trackball so you don't smack your hand into the spinner or some pushbuttons. 2 admin buttons, six player buttons. I tried to center it as best I could and it looks as perfect as I'm going to get it.

Just wanted to say I really appreciate the help. Thanks again.

dennis808 · « **Reply #21 on:** December 06, 2005, 04:35:01 am »

Looks great! I think the spinner is good there, but what are you going to use the 2 blue buttons next to it for?

JonnyBoy · « **Reply #22 on:** December 06, 2005, 07:25:30 am »

Those are just mouse buttons, incase I'll need them for browsing through PC game menus instead of plugging in an extra mouse. I plan on setting those buttons as action buttons in mame along with the player buttons so I can have spinner game action button right next to the spinner, similiar to Knieval's panel.

jcoleman · « **Reply #23 on:** December 06, 2005, 08:04:44 am »

Buttons...must be...closer...together...

JonnyBoy · « **Reply #24 on:** December 06, 2005, 01:00:05 pm »

Closer still? I'm not sure if the software will let me get any closer.

ahofle · « **Reply #25 on:** December 06, 2005, 01:08:14 pm »

Looking good.
Only question with those mouse buttons is you would have to be left handed to use them with the trackball or spinner (left hand on trackball/spinner, right hand on buttons). You could just do what someone else suggested and 'double up' the player one button 1 and 2 with the mouse button 1 and 2. Then you wouldn't need those two blue buttons at all, or you could use them for something else.

JonnyBoy · « **Reply #26 on:** December 06, 2005, 02:01:57 pm »

Would you recommend I keep the spinner in the same place if I remove those two blue buttons? How would I double up the player buttons with the mouse buttons? Is there software I have to use to make regular keys be detected as mouse clicks? Or am I missunderstanding you guys?

Thanks.

JonnyBoy · « **Reply #27 on:** December 06, 2005, 03:58:41 pm »

Okay guys, Scott over at MameRoom said that he can cut this thing tonite, I just need to finalize the design. Should I remove those two buttons? I'm leaning towards keeping them.

Tahnok · « **Reply #28 on:** December 06, 2005, 04:46:00 pm »

Quote from: jcoleman on December 06, 2005, 08:04:44 am

Buttons...must be...closer...together...

I agree. I was disappointed with my first CP because I placed the buttons too far apart. It's hard to tell on the computer how close they are. Try printing the layout and see if you like how close you placed them. If you have to fan your fingers too far it will get tiring.

ahofle · « **Reply #29 on:** December 06, 2005, 04:52:28 pm »

Quote from: JonnyBoy on December 06, 2005, 02:01:57 pm

Would you recommend I keep the spinner in the same place if I remove those two blue buttons? How would I double up the player buttons with the mouse buttons? Is there software I have to use to make regular keys be detected as mouse clicks? Or am I missunderstanding you guys?

Thanks.

By doubling up all I mean is that pressing your player one fire button for example would simulate both a 'Ctrl' key press and a 'left mouse button' press simultaneously. You would just run the button's wires parallel to both the ipac and optipac. I haven't tried this though.

After thinking about it some more, maybe that might not be good, because sometimes holding down 'Ctrl' and clicking the mouse does weird things in windows. I think it looks good as is, and if you decide later you want to add an additional couple buttons on the left of the spinner you can easliy do it.

I know it's tempting to get this thing going, but you should really take your time with this step and make absolutely certain you are happy with your layout. It's undoubtedly the most important part of making sure you will like the cabinet for years to come.

JonnyBoy · « **Reply #30 on:** December 06, 2005, 05:07:13 pm »

I honestly think that there is a problem with the render, because if you look at my button plan, they are touching.

JonnyBoy · « **Reply #31 on:** December 06, 2005, 05:29:35 pm »

This is just after centering. I checked and made sure everything is nice and even. I made the buttons as close as possible. Think I should bring the buttons/joys down a bit further?

markrvp · « **Reply #32 on:** December 06, 2005, 05:31:48 pm »

If I were you I would swap positions of the spinner and the two buttons. Tempest used the right hand for the spinner with the left hand pushing two buttons.

JonnyBoy · « **Reply #33 on:** December 06, 2005, 06:37:36 pm »

Agreed.

ahofle · « **Reply #34 on:** December 06, 2005, 07:04:24 pm »

Now that looks about perfect. And yeah I would bring down the joysticks/buttons down a tad.

JonnyBoy · « **Reply #35 on:** December 06, 2005, 08:13:03 pm »

Heh.

Thanks a bunch guys, couldn't have done this without you.

quarterstringer · « **Reply #36 on:** December 06, 2005, 10:18:46 pm »

Quote from: JonnyBoy on December 06, 2005, 05:29:35 pm

Think I should bring the buttons/joys down a bit further?

No, I prefer having a lot of room to rest your wrist and palms. I rebuilt my control panel because it was very annoying to feel the edge with my palms. My new control panel has over 6 inches of area below the bottom row of buttons, it's much more comfortable to play now.

JonnyBoy · « **Reply #37 on:** December 06, 2005, 10:31:33 pm »

I have about 5.5" of area before the ledge, you think that'd be okay? That's from the bottom of the bottom row of buttons.

quarterstringer · « **Reply #38 on:** December 06, 2005, 10:36:48 pm »

It depends on how big your hands are

. Just make sure the bottom of your palm is resting comfortably on the control panel while playing the bottom row of buttons.

JonnyBoy · « **Reply #39 on:** December 06, 2005, 10:48:39 pm »

I did a mockup real quick and I have plenty of room. Thanks for the heads up.


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