Author Topic: Dreamcast interface idea (Read 4250 times)

rampy · « **on:** January 26, 2003, 07:17:46 pm »

Hi all...

I'm thinking about getting a dreamcast to augment the action on my arcade cabinet...

While I was poking around a game stop or some siiliar store in the mall... I spied a ps2 PC keyboard) to DC (keyboard) adapter... and got me thinking.

Now I'm sure I'm not the first person to think of it.. but humor me...

Would it be possible/plausible to use that adapter in conjunction with a keyboard encoder (key wiz , ipac et al) so that one could easily switch between PC and dreamcast controls...

Since I neither have a dreamcast or a dreamcast keyboard... can some one tell me (Snaaaake, dave_k ? anyone?) how the dreamcast keyboard works... can you map the keyboard to work with "regular" games so that if one wanted (as a test) to controll a non keyboard game with the keyboard in lieu of a controler?

Do you understanding what i'm trying to proof of concept here?

Thoughts, feedback, other ideas?

rampy

SNAAAKE · « **Reply #1 on:** January 26, 2003, 08:24:31 pm »

i know what you are talkin about but i think the dc keyboard only works for seganet where you need a keyboard and only one game supports this.
The typing of the dead.

I am not sure if the converter will work for "ALL" games.
The idea isn't that..err.. "BRIGHT" $:-\$

AGAIN,i dont have dc keyboard so i am only guessing but i doubt it works with regular games other then totd(i have the game and it doesnt start without having a dc keyboard connected).

only way you will find out if anyone confirms how things go.

SirPoonga · « **Reply #2 on:** January 26, 2003, 10:36:07 pm »

I have a keyboard. Only if the game supports it, which most games it is just for chatting on the net. mamedc supports it though.

Dave_K. · « **Reply #3 on:** January 26, 2003, 11:43:28 pm »

I remember trying this a long time ago and there was only one game that would work with a keyboard in place of a controller, and that was Soul Calibur (this is not documented anywhere in the game). I just booted it up, and it does indeed work (you can figure out which key does what quite quickly). But none of the other games in my collection work like that. It wasn't a big deal to hack the controllers anyway (Madcatz ones).

enemyace · « **Reply #4 on:** January 27, 2003, 10:31:07 am »

You can use the keyboard for first person shooters like Quake 3 Arena and Unreal Tournament, I believe.

eightbit · « **Reply #5 on:** January 27, 2003, 11:13:08 am »

Quote from: rampy on January 26, 2003, 07:17:46 pm

While I was poking around a game stop or some siiliar store in the mall... I spied a ps2 PC keyboard) to DC (keyboard) adapter... and got me thinking.

Would it be possible/plausible to use that adapter in conjunction with a keyboard encoder (key wiz , ipac et al) so that one could easily switch between PC and dreamcast controls...

Since I neither have a dreamcast or a dreamcast keyboard... can some one tell me (Snaaaake, dave_k ? anyone?) how the dreamcast keyboard works... can you map the keyboard to work with "regular" games so that if one wanted (as a test) to controll a non keyboard game with the keyboard in lieu of a controler?

Do you understanding what i'm trying to proof of concept here?

Thoughts, feedback, other ideas?

How much is said adapter? Whats the return policy like at this game store? If you had a dreamcast it wouldn't take much to test it.

rampy · « **Reply #6 on:** January 27, 2003, 11:39:56 am »

Quote from: eightbit on January 27, 2003, 11:13:08 am

Quote from: rampy on January 26, 2003, 07:17:46 pm
While I was poking around a game stop or some siiliar store in the mall... I spied a ps2 PC keyboard) to DC (keyboard) adapter... and got me thinking.

Would it be possible/plausible to use that adapter in conjunction with a keyboard encoder (key wiz , ipac et al) so that one could easily switch between PC and dreamcast controls...

Since I neither have a dreamcast or a dreamcast keyboard... can some one tell me (Snaaaake, dave_k ? anyone?) how the dreamcast keyboard works... can you map the keyboard to work with "regular" games so that if one wanted (as a test) to controll a non keyboard game with the keyboard in lieu of a controler?

Do you understanding what i'm trying to proof of concept here?

Thoughts, feedback, other ideas?
How much is said adapter? Whats the return policy like at this game store? If you had a dreamcast it wouldn't take much to test it.

well the connector was a whopping 4 bucks... but I have neither a dreamcast, nor dreamcast games, nor a keyboard encoder (yet)...

In the past some folks have asked about the mythical beast Dreamcast--I-pac or dreamcast- wiz... and this could have been a clever way to easily hack in a dreamcast to a cabinet (more importantly in my case, hack in a dream cast without signifigantly adding to the rats nest spaghetti farm in my cabinet)

looks like it wasn't meant to be =(

I'll probably end up (someday) hacking DC pads and working up some db25 switcher way to interface DC ANd PC controls to the same set of arcade sticks/buttons... *shrug*

rampy

Minwah · « **Reply #7 on:** January 27, 2003, 03:39:09 pm »

It's a real shame that all DC games don't allow for keyboard re-mapping...but then who the hell would want to play games with a keyboard (except us lot).

I've got the keyboard but only* Quake 3 uses it...and the lag time with that game sucks anyway

(*I mean I don't have any others that support it)

There are so many great arcade ports for the DC, it's a shame they don't all support the VGA box for cabs with PC monitors in them.

Dave_K. · « **Reply #8 on:** January 27, 2003, 04:46:32 pm »

Quote from: Minwah on January 27, 2003, 03:39:09 pm

There are so many great arcade ports for the DC, it's a shame they don't all support the VGA box for cabs with PC monitors in them.

Every arcade port I know of works with the VGA box (even ones that don't explicitly list it on the back of the CD case). You have to do the switch trick during bootup on games like Bust-a-Move and Gauntlet Ledgends (the only two ports I know of that don't intentially support the vga box).

Minwah · « **Reply #9 on:** January 27, 2003, 06:38:49 pm »

Quote from: Dave_K. on January 27, 2003, 04:46:32 pm

Every arcade port I know of works with the VGA box (even ones that don't explicitly list it on the back of the CD case). You have to do the switch trick during bootup on games like Bust-a-Move and Gauntlet Ledgends (the only two ports I know of that don't intentially support the vga box).

How about Capcom vs SNK - this is the one that sticks in my mind for not working. I have a UK DC btw, not sure if it matters ?

Please tell me the switch trick!!? I have Gauntlet Legends

SNAAAKE · « **Reply #10 on:** January 27, 2003, 09:13:21 pm »

capcom vs snk dont work at all.
the trick is simple.you first switch to tv mode then start your dreamcast..right after you hear that dreamcast intro music switch it back to vga and the game loads...
wait about 6 seconds before switching back to vga mode..dino crisis is funny..the game starts but you cant see the fmv's in vga mode.

and mortal kombat gold starts but you cant continue after you loose once(it freezes) when running vga mode.

Dave_K. · « **Reply #11 on:** January 27, 2003, 09:34:51 pm »

Just as snaaake said, bootup the DC with the VGA switch in TV mode, and wait for 5 seconds (about as much time as it takes for the Sega License to appear). You may have to do this a couple times to get the timing right.

The trick is that the game won't start without displaying the Sega License. And by keeping the VGA box in TV mode, it should load that license screen without a problem (you won't see it on the VGA monitor obviously). You then need to switch it back to VGA before the game starts loading (before you hear the CD starts seeking). To get the timing right, you can try it out on a normal TV and time how long it takes for the license to appear...right when it appears is when you switch it back to VGA mode.

rampy · « **Reply #12 on:** January 28, 2003, 01:12:34 pm »

I had an additional idea/request for info...

My goal is to have a simple/easy interface from dreamcast to arcade controls that would coexist easily with existing PC controls/enocders/etc... (for sure a DC gamepad hack and using DB25's and a true switch box between the DC hack and the PC encoder/hack to the controls is one method)

Being that i'm cheap... or very thrifty... I don't necessarily want an x-arcade interface + dreamcast adapter ( has anyone tried an x-arcade w/dreamcast -> how did you like it?) ...

but it got me wondering... what exactly is in the X-arcade dreamcast adapter anyways? Has anyone cracked it open?
Does it (or could it) work with other interfaces (i.e. an ipac or keywiz)... what exactly is in there that "fools" the dreamcast to think it's getting signal(s) from a dreamcast controller?

*shrug* i'm new to the dreamcast (and still don't own one) but it's got me thinking... so, sorry if this is old territory.

Thanks,

Rampy

Dave_K. · « **Reply #13 on:** January 28, 2003, 04:38:46 pm »

Quote from: rampy on January 28, 2003, 01:12:34 pm

but it got me wondering... what exactly is in the X-arcade dreamcast adapter anyways? Has anyone cracked it open?
Does it (or could it) work with other interfaces (i.e. an ipac or keywiz)... what exactly is in there that "fools" the dreamcast to think it's getting signal(s) from a dreamcast controller?

The adapter must have the PIC chip which communicats the Dreamcast's "Maplebus" protocol. The rest is just interfacing the buttons/joysticks to that chip. It would be of no use for any other console or pc type connection.

rampy · « **Reply #14 on:** January 28, 2003, 05:08:42 pm »

Quote from: Dave_K. on January 28, 2003, 04:38:46 pm

Quote from: rampy on January 28, 2003, 01:12:34 pm
but it got me wondering... what exactly is in the X-arcade dreamcast adapter anyways? Has anyone cracked it open?
Does it (or could it) work with other interfaces (i.e. an ipac or keywiz)... what exactly is in there that "fools" the dreamcast to think it's getting signal(s) from a dreamcast controller?
The adapter must have the PIC chip which communicats the Dreamcast's "Maplebus" protocol. The rest is just interfacing the buttons/joysticks to that chip. It would be of no use for any other console or pc type connection.

No.. but how about the other way around...

instead of interfacing an x-arcade with adapter to dreamcast
you could interface an ipac -> connector -> dreamcast?

*shrug*

I guess my question should be "how does x-arcade encoder communicate with the DC converter thingie"

rampy

SNAAAKE · « **Reply #15 on:** January 28, 2003, 05:50:01 pm »

ahhhhh...grrr...all the headace..

why dont ya just hack 2 matcatz pad..TRUST us...its really less then nothing..these madcatz pads have somthing special that solder just sticks to it right there..i know soldrin isnt that easy for everyone(whatever) but this pad is just wayyyyy too easy(ask anyone)..even easier then most psx pad(thats what I think).

then you could rewire your control panel with male/female db25 cables...c'mon..stop being all lazy and DO IT

.

The swtich box idea just sucks..HOW I KNOW?...because i do

.
So you have to switch the interface manually(plug/unplug).

About this x-arcade dreamcast interface,I "THINK" that it should work.Like you cut open the end that goes to x-arcade stick and you test all the wires too see which is which..This is just guessing so chances are you will blow out the dreamcast controls port by trying to figure out which wire does what.
Again..HOW I KNOW about blowing out dreamcast port..because i do

(happend to once when i was tesing while the dreamcast was ON but sega fixed it free under warrenty

).

Minwah · « **Reply #16 on:** January 28, 2003, 07:05:16 pm »

Thanks Snaaake + Dave_K, I'll try the switch trick when I set my DC up next...

I was thinking of how to fix a DC up too. I guess you could have a connector between IPAC + controls, then a connector from a hacked DC pad. Bit of cable switching to do but who would care if you get to play Soul Calibur properly

Thorn · « **Reply #17 on:** January 28, 2003, 07:42:27 pm »

Anyone hacked the MadCatz Panther for Dreamcast yet? If so, does it work well. I have one but I'm not even close to setting up a Dreamcast panel.

http://www.teamxonline.com/dreamcast/reviews/pantherdc.htm

Dave_K. · « **Reply #18 on:** January 28, 2003, 08:01:42 pm »

Quote from: rampy on January 28, 2003, 05:08:42 pm

instead of interfacing an x-arcade with adapter to dreamcast
you could interface an ipac -> connector -> dreamcast?

You could wire your arcade controls to both the ipac and a hacked DC pad in parallel (both are wired to the control panel at the same time). But there are two problems with this approach. 1) you must isolate the grounds from each with something like a dpdt switch. 2) you can't/shouldn't have both turned on at the same time (even if you isolate the ground).

Personally, I think its just easiest to isolate both interfaces from your arcade controls via a db25 or molex connector. So only one interface can be pluged into your controls at a time. No worrying about blowing up your PC or DC. You have to go into the cabinet to turn on the DC or put in a CD anyway, so just unplug the ipac, and plug in the hacked dc controller. Simple.

Dave_K. · « **Reply #19 on:** January 28, 2003, 08:07:21 pm »

Quote from: Thorn on January 28, 2003, 07:42:27 pm

Anyone hacked the MadCatz Panther for Dreamcast yet? If so, does it work well. I have one but I'm not even close to setting up a Dreamcast panel.

http://www.teamxonline.com/dreamcast/reviews/pantherdc.htm

Curious as to why you would want to hack the panther? Are you wanting to mount the trackball in your control panel? Otherwise, its easier to hack a madcatz pad. Also those panthers are getting quite collectable now (in value) since they don't make them anymore, and PC users pay through the nose on ebay for spare panther parts.

tom61 · « **Reply #20 on:** January 28, 2003, 08:58:00 pm »

Quote

Would it be possible/plausible to use that adapter in conjunction with a keyboard encoder (key wiz , ipac et al) so that one could easily switch between PC and dreamcast controls...

Probably not that adapter, there are a grand total of two adapters that let you use a keyboard with every game. The Total Control 2 and the Smart Joy 2 (one is a clone of the other).

I was able to play Skies of Arcadia (which lacks any keyboard support, and requires analog for movement) the Smart Joy 2 and a keyboard. It has a special mode to use a keyboard as a controller, complete with simulated analog.

Thorn · « **Reply #21 on:** January 28, 2003, 09:32:31 pm »

I guess I bought it because of the Dreamccast trackball and the joystick. I haven't used it yet. $20.00 at GameStop and they seemed rare. Not a fully developed idea. That's why I had asked if anyone had done anything with it.

Generic Eric · « **Reply #22 on:** January 29, 2003, 12:40:08 am »

I'd like to know if there is anything available where you can have two controllers hooked to one port on the Dreamcast.

Example:
- I want to make a dreamcast cabinet with at least two players(I'm not sure how many arcade ports are four player games)
- Additionally, I would like always have ports one and two connected to guns as well as the basic gamepad.

Basically, it would be pass through device. Is there such a beast? That would be my dream-pac

Now, if I could do all of that and have the controllers also hooked up to the PC,at the same time, that would be great.

Dave_K. · « **Reply #23 on:** January 29, 2003, 01:45:00 am »

Quote from: generic_eric on January 29, 2003, 12:40:08 am

I'd like to know if there is anything available where you can have two controllers hooked to one port on the Dreamcast.

Example:
- I want to make a dreamcast cabinet with at least two players(I'm not sure how many arcade ports are four player games)
- Additionally, I would like always have ports one and two connected to guns as well as the basic gamepad.

No there is no way to have two controllers on one port. The Dreamcast maplebus protocol can only recognize one controller on the port.

Personally I don't see why you would want to do this anyway. In my DC cabinet, I have 2 hacked controllers (one port 1 and 2) and 2 guns plugged into 3 and 4. I can play all gun games and 2 player games without swapping.

Please read my responses above in this thread about hooking up DC controls and PC controls (you don't want to have both hookedup at the same time ).

Generic Eric · « **Reply #24 on:** January 29, 2003, 01:52:33 am »

Quote

Personally I don't see why you would want to do this anyway. In my DC cabinet, I have 2 hacked controllers (one port 1 and 2) and 2 guns plugged into 3 and 4. I can play all gun games and 2 player games without swapping.

Well...huh...I never tried that.

rampy · « **Reply #25 on:** January 29, 2003, 02:21:51 pm »

Quote from: tom61 on January 28, 2003, 08:58:00 pm

Quote
Would it be possible/plausible to use that adapter in conjunction with a keyboard encoder (key wiz , ipac et al) so that one could easily switch between PC and dreamcast controls...

Probably not that adapter, there are a grand total of two adapters that let you use a keyboard with every game. The Total Control 2 and the Smart Joy 2 (one is a clone of the other).

I was able to play Skies of Arcadia (which lacks any keyboard support, and requires analog for movement) the Smart Joy 2 and a keyboard. It has a special mode to use a keyboard as a controller, complete with simulated analog.

Tom you're my hero! know of anyplace in the US that sells these?

rampy

Banacek · « **Reply #26 on:** January 29, 2003, 02:57:59 pm »

Quote from: tom61 on January 28, 2003, 08:58:00 pm

Quote
Would it be possible/plausible to use that adapter in conjunction with a keyboard encoder (key wiz , ipac et al) so that one could easily switch between PC and dreamcast controls...

Probably not that adapter, there are a grand total of two adapters that let you use a keyboard with every game. The Total Control 2 and the Smart Joy 2 (one is a clone of the other).

I was able to play Skies of Arcadia (which lacks any keyboard support, and requires analog for movement) the Smart Joy 2 and a keyboard. It has a special mode to use a keyboard as a controller, complete with simulated analog.

Would any of these be what you're talking about?

http://www.ps2modchip.com/dreamcast/

EDIT: Also there's the problem of using the keyboard to control player one and player two..

tom61 · « **Reply #27 on:** January 29, 2003, 05:13:00 pm »

Quote

Would any of these be what you're talking about?

http://www.ps2modchip.com/dreamcast/

Yes, the Total Control 2 on that page is the same as I was talking about. Keep in mind though, shipping from the HK is pretty high(though the low prices may make it worthwhile)

http://www.ps2modchip.com/flash/dc6.htm

Quote

EDIT: Also there's the problem of using the keyboard to control player one and player two..

Yes, that is a problem, you'd have to use two adapters and keyboard encoders, or hack one game pad. If you already have your controls wired for PC, it saves you from hacking one player.

Quote

Tom you're my hero! know of anyplace in the US that sells these?

http://www.baysoftgames.com/dreamtoplaya.html is the link where I bought mine.

Oh yeah, if you want to use a PC type trackball with mouse compatable games on the Dreamcast, grab the Total Control 5 (both sites have them).


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