Dumb PC Question

[rampy]

Hi gentleman,

Give me a break on this one, eh?  I'm no strangers to building/uprgrading PC's ....  but have a silly question.

I bought the cheapo PNY SDRAM pc133 on sale at staples to upgrade a family member's PC... and it's clear to me that either the memory is bad, or that it just isn't congealing with this particular system (PII 350, bah!)
(won't boot windows/emm386 gets all pissy about bad something or other... etc.. if i stick the stick in alone it won't POST/boot at all)

So... I'm questioning one of my assumptions.  I thought you could take pc133 ram and mix it with pc 100 ram and it would work fine, cept for being overkill since it's been rated to run at the higher bus speed...  and the system would access the ram at the lowest common denominator...  

Is that assumption wrong?

Is the ram just sucky? (I had the same thing happen with a 256 stick at work that was also garbage PNY brand)

Your thoughts are appreciated

Rampy

PS what's the name of that util that hardcore checks RAM "sector" by sector or whatever really thorougly... it came up last time someone had a mobo ram related problem...

[SNAAAKE]

you sure you are not goin overboard?
it happens when you load more ram then it mobo can take..my old system was 512mb max and i loaded with 704 mb of ram and system wouldnt start and hang on boot screen..just letting ya know what i know..

You have the manual for the motherboard?
maybe you can look to see whats the limit...
how many slots on you have in there(for ram)..?
Go to bios and if the ram setting is set to pc133 then try doin pc100.
trying to help  

[SirPoonga]

Hmmm, you should be able to put pc133 into pc100, it just won't run as fast as it could:)

You might not be able to mix it.

Did you try
1) the new memory by itself?
2) if that works then try putting the two memory together in different orders
3)if that doesn't work the memory has issues with each other.

[OSCAR]

I think you summed it up already.

I bought the cheapo PNY SDRAM pc133 on sale...

You can mix 100/133 sdram.  They are the same chips, its just that 133 has been quality tested to run stable at a higher MHz, that's all.

I'd bet you just have bad ram.  I've spent enough time troubleshooting faulty generic ram like the PNY stuff that I only use Corsair or the like in my PC's now.

Snaake has a point, too.  If your new ram is a 256MB stick then some mobo's don't support that, but they will sometimes recognize it as a 128MB stick, in my experience.

[rampy]

I think you summed it up already.

I bought the cheapo PNY SDRAM pc133 on sale...

You can mix 100/133 sdram.  They are the same chips, its just that 133 has been quality tested to run stable at a higher MHz, that's all.

I'd bet you just have bad ram.  I've spent enough time troubleshooting faulty generic ram like the PNY stuff that I only use Corsair or the like in my PC's now.

Snaake has a point, too.  If your new ram is a 256MB stick then some mobo's don't support that, but they will sometimes recognize it as a 128MB stick, in my experience.

Thanks guys...

It currently has 64mb and only adding 128mb (win98 box) it has 3 slots (it *shouldn't* have  a prob with that much ram - although I can't find any specs cuz NEC is a dick about their old PC's support info on their site - i.e. no existant )

It DOES NOT boot with JUST the new stick in play...

It's a very "dumbed" down bios without any speed settings...

I would normally buy ram from crucial, but was trying to hit a brick and mortar for a quickie fix...

Thanks all - i'm fairly certain the ram sucks arse... (or just a side thought - maybe when they "deactiveate" the security sensor on the RAM it toasts it somehow...)

*Shrug* thanks...

rampy

[slug54]

I hate to dis-agree with everybody here but...
A lot of motherboards in the class Rampy is upgrading
Won't accept PC133 ram ,Some need a bios upgrade
before they will work properly.This system was probably
designed for PC66 ram. Rampy if it's an option get a PC100 module. And like some of the others have said check the specs on your board some old systems didn't even accept 256mb modules.
I do computer service for a living and I have seen tons of pos machines not able to ID a simple 128mb PC133 module.
It is PNY ram so a bad module is probable also.

                              Slug54
 

[Silverwind]

I hate to dis-agree with everybody here but...
A lot of motherboards in the class Rampy is upgrading
Won't accept PC133 ram ,Some need a bios upgrade
before they will work properly.This system was probably
designed for PC66 ram. Rampy if it's an option get a PC100 module. And like some of the others have said check the specs on your board some old systems didn't even accept 256mb modules.
I do computer service for a living and I have seen tons of pos machines not able to ID a simple 128mb PC133 module.
It is PNY ram so a bad module is probable also.

                              Slug54
 

A pentium 2 350mhz runs at 100mhz bus... it was actually the first P2 to do so

I've have not encountered a problem with PC133 running in a PC100 based computer.. then again I have never used generic PC133 in a PC100 situation...

at work we pretty much order exclusively from crucial..

all bets are off if you are using generic parts.. you never can be sure of the outcome... (the motherboard on that NEC might be generic also??)

[OSCAR]

A pentium 2 350mhz runs at 100mhz bus... it was actually the first P2 to do so

Absolutely!  PC66 is not quite the same as 100/133 sdram.  Since rampy's system is a P2 350 then 133MHz sdram should work just fine.  Slug54 does bring up a good point though, it doesn't hurt to make sure you have the latest bios for your mobo just in case your current one has a bug.

[rampy]

A pentium 2 350mhz runs at 100mhz bus... it was actually the first P2 to do so

Absolutely!  PC66 is not quite the same as 100/133 sdram.  Since rampy's system is a P2 350 then 133MHz sdram should work just fine.  Slug54 does bring up a good point though, it doesn't hurt to make sure you have the latest bios for your mobo just in case your current one has a bug.

Thanks guys... that helps clear up my confusion...

It's an NEC that isn't support worth  a damn... there's an intel bio upgrade for the reference board, but that's tricky business upgrading  a bios without the OEM specific bios upgrade...

anyways I'll try some pc100 ram just for a goof... or just say screw it...

thanks all,

rampy

[Odonadon]

It's been my experience that PC100 and PC133 RAM do not work together in a 2 slot configuration.  At all.  And I can't remember hearing them working in tandem properly at all.   At least in the boards I've tried them in (Asus P2B, P2 and a Via motherboard).  The P2 mobo held a PII 300, the P2B held a PII 400, and the Via motherboard (can't remember model) ran a K6-2 350.

I suppose it could just be these motherboards, but as I said ealier, I've never heard of them running side by side.  Anyone have any solid proof?

And yes, the PC133 RAM will work just fine in a 100MHz bus.  The RAM will just run at 100MHz.

Hey, if your motherboard has 4 slots (assuming you're only using 2 DIMMs), try arranging the PC133 and PC100 so there's a free slot between them.  That might work.

Also, you can't successfully mix unbuffered and buffered RAM.  Sames goes for ECC and non-ECC.

Thanks,
Odonadon

[SNAAAKE]

Anyone have any solid proof?

LOL !
most ram chips are both pc100/pc133(it clearly says on the package) and i run all mixed up stuff and NOTHING ever happend.I seriouslly..bought some pc100's and some pc133's(because i didnt know what the difference was) and everything ran SMOOTH..
I bet its that motherboard Rampy has thats causing this weirdness,either old board that dont accept pc133 at all or needs bios update.He says the system dont start even with just the pc133 chip alone so common sense says its either the ram itself or the motherboard dont accept pc133(unless bios updated but i still doubt it will work)
AND thats another reason you never buy any computer from companies like dell,gateway,etc,etc.
Because they dont give you $hit with the computer .like manual for your board maybe .

[OSCAR]

Anyone have any solid proof?

The PC I'm typing this reply on currently has a stick of each installed, if that counts.....  

[Odonadon]

Anyone have any solid proof?

The PC I'm typing this reply on currently has a stick of each installed, if that counts.....  

Yup, I'd count that as solid proof

Odonadon

[Wade]

I know we are probably beating this to death but I'll throw on my $0.02.  I have mixed pc133 with pc100 on older boards before, in fact I thought it always worked (as long as you don't exceed the size limits of the board, which should be highly unlikely with a 128M chip).  My money is on a bad new chip.

Wade

[Brax]

That board likely has a ram limit of 384meg. (3-128 meg dimms)

Also some boards are picky about the value of ram and their order in the slots. Typically it's largest to smallest. Try the 128 meg DIMM in slot one.
It's worth a try anyways. It sounded like you already tried many options but I just wanted to be sure.

[Silverwind]

That board likely has a ram limit of 384meg. (3-128 meg dimms)

Also some boards are picky about the value of ram and their order in the slots. Typically it's largest to smallest. Try the 128 meg DIMM in slot one.
It's worth a try anyways. It sounded like you already tried many options but I just wanted to be sure.

good point.. it may not be a motherboard limit, but rather a dimm limit..

If your motherboard supports 512mb memory.. doesn't neccesarily mean you can use 2 x 256mb to obtain it..

Do you know what the max memory on that motherboard is?  I think it has been mentioned.. but basically just take max memory and divide by number of slots.. that will give you maximum module size...

I've had mixed experience when putting a module in a motherboard that is larger than it supports...  sometimes it shows up as half.. sometimes not at all..  

[JLR2000]

I guess I'll throw in my 2 cents....

I've upgraded a lot of family/friends PCs with more memory, and I've also done the same for the older machines I have.  I usually use the cheap rebate memory from Office Max.  Although I've read that pc133 and pc100 are interchangeable, I have NEVER been able to get pc133 to run on systems that had pc100 in it.  It never fails, I buy the rebate ram...which pc133 is what is always on sale, try it...it doesn't work.  Buy pc100 for a little more $$ and it works like a charm.  Believe me it's frustrating as all hell.  Now this has been with all types of machines, DELL...IBM, plus some others I can't remember now.  If I'm doing something wrong please someone tell me, because it always seems like I HAVE to get pc100 ram for the older machines.  My newer AMD machines like the pc133 just fine....

[wee beastie]

Just my 2 cents, I think it's the cheap PNY RAM.  It was doing the same thing to my mame system just 2 nights ago.  Same thing too!  PNY RAM on sale at Staples.  As soon as I take the ram out, everything's cool again.  It used to work, but it died (I assume) about 2 months after getting it.  Now I can't get the cheap PNY RAM to work in any system (tried on a celeron, an athalon, and an athalonxp).

[rampy]

Ok... thanks again everyone... I'm all set now really...

I just wanted to make sure i wasn't crazy.  

summation: you can mix pc 100 and pc 133 ram, but ymmv vary with an ancient system coping with the 133.  PNY suxors...

*shrug*

rampy