MAME - Buttons 7 and 8

[Odonadon]

Okay, I'm building a CP in the street fighter layout, but notice that the i-pac has placed to hook up buttons 7 and 8.  I wasn't going to add these to my panel, but am now thinking I should in case there are games that I'm not aware of that use these.  

Can anyone help me out?  What games take advantage of all 8 buttons?

Thanks,
Odonadon

[SirPoonga]

There are a VERY few.  You have to think of the IPAC as just an input interface.  Those terminal are labeled so YOU know where to wire for the default mame setup of the ipac.  And so you have a reference to the input in the config util.  Otheriwse it's basically extra input for you to use for whatever.

[Jakobud]

Yes very few that use more than 6.  There are actually up to 10 button inputs per player 1 and 2 in Mame.  I think there is only one game that supports that many buttons, probably some crazy mahjong game or something.  

Just stick with 6.

[BASSOFeeSH]

Just stick with 6.

A lot of people use the 7th input for the "thumb" button.  i.e. the "run" button in MK3

Like on the hotrod:

[SirPoonga]

Just stick with 6.

A lot of people use the 7th input for the "thumb" button.  i.e. the "run" button in MK3

Like on the hotrod:

actually that thumb button is for neogeo games, so you have 4 buttons in a row like neogeo.  That button is sometimes wired with another button, say the 6th one, to save inputs.

[MrBond]

Ok guys, is this extra "thumb"/neogeo button actually worth drilling, wiring, and using?  Just need some opinions from experience.  I haven't drilled yet, but if I do, I can always add this button if I think it's worth it...

Thanks,
~Mrbond

[eightbit]

Ok guys, is this extra "thumb"/neogeo button actually worth drilling, wiring, and using?  Just need some opinions from experience.  I haven't drilled yet, but if I do, I can always add this button if I think it's worth it...

This is something only you can really answer. Its far easier to do it now than to redo it later. The most common layout is probably the 6 button 2 row layout. Less people use the 7th button but the ones that do usually do it for the 4 Neo Geo buttons.

[RetroBorg]

The most important use for that so called thumb button would have to be for the reverse button in Defender and Stargate.

[BASSOFeeSH]

actually that thumb button is for neogeo games, so you have 4 buttons in a row like neogeo.  That button is sometimes wired with another button, say the 6th one, to save inputs.

That's true.  I just always figured that more people put it there because I can be used as a "thumb" button.  i.e. Some people just put 4 buttons in the top row for Neo Geo games.

It really is a personal choice I guess.

[MrBond]

Is it best to go with the standard 6 button streetfighter setup with the lined up buttons, OR have an "arch" to the buttons?

Personal preference I guess, but what do you think?

[eightbit]

Is it best to go with the standard 6 button streetfighter setup with the lined up buttons, OR have an "arch" to the buttons?

Personal preference I guess, but what do you think?

Do a search on the archives, this has been debated many times. Its either split or slightly more people do the straight rows. My guess why people do the straight rows is that its easier to lay them out plus it is the classic fighter layout.

[Odonadon]

Is it best to go with the standard 6 button streetfighter setup with the lined up buttons, OR have an "arch" to the buttons?

Personal preference I guess, but what do you think?

I prefer straight, mainly because my middle finger is only maybe 1/3" longer than the finger on either side.  Doesn't make much sense (to me) to arch them.

Odonadon

[BASSOFeeSH]

I chose the "arc" layout for two reasons.

1(and most important to me): It was more ergonomical..i.e. I simply laid my hand on the piece of wood & centered the buttons appropriately.

2: Its really just a side-effect, but I'm a fan of the Mortal Kombat series and having the two rows "arc'd" kinda results in the middle button in the bottom row being closer to where "block" is supposed to be.

[MrBond]

If I go with the arch, is it better to have one like this:


Or



What do you suggest?

[Dr. J]

My layout is exactly like that hotrod, and I use the extra button for run in MK3 and for "A" in all the neo-geo games.  I wouldn't go back, but it's a personal choice.  

I was going to do just six buttons and put an interesting twist to the neo-geo fighters.  I was going to set up the controls in Mame so the top row "A" "B" and "AB" and the bottom row "C" "D" and "CD."  As long as the neo-geo fighter is A=light punch, B=med. punch and A+B=Hard punch then this layout would become identical to Street fighter 2.  You could go the other way if you wanted only a 4 button neo-geo layout.  Set up Mame so your first button is light punch, second button is medium punch and both are hard punch.  Do the same for the kicks and you've converted a Street fighter 2 game to a neo-geo layout.  
   I decided to do it in the hot rod layout, because I wanted both of the Authentic layouts on my panel, but the point of all my blabbering is that you can set Mame to make it the way you like it.  Enjoy.

[SirPoonga]

If I go with the arch, is it better to have one like this:

What do you suggest?

Have you seen mine (Sig)

[Nyrine]

Im using 7 buttons per player - figured better to have them than to not !

My layout is <a href=http://homepage.ntlworld.com/andrew_ross/CPLayout.jpg>here</a> 4 players. The group of 8 buttons in the center is player start / credit, and the group of 4 in the top left is for MAME functions - ESC, Tab, ~, Pause.

Its a big JPG, (4235 x 1627, 338KB) thats what Visio saved it as. The Visio templates on this site were invaluable.

What I read here that influenced me, is to:

put your hands down in fists next to one another
rotate your right hand so its palm down
open fingers
put buttons where fingers are

That explains the irregular arc, but for me the buttons are very comfortable in use.

Just need to get that piece of Lexan on Monday, and I can finally finish it up !

[Howard_Casto]

If I go with the arch, is it better to have one like this:


Or



What do you suggest?

Unless you have some really wacky old-school games in mind witht he layout, only arch the neogeo button and leave the other straight.  Why?  Look at your hand and try to arch each finger so that the middle fingers are higher up on the board.  See how uncomfortable that is?  Now put your fingers straight and your thumb slight below and off-set to it.  Guess what your already doing that while your typing with your fingers and thumbs at home position.  Now do you guys get it?  

Theres not much debate as to which layout is more comfortable unless you have huge or tiny hands.  I would reccomend the 7th button btw.  It comes in handy for odd-ball functions.  (Like the mk layout and ect....)  

Hope that helps.  

HAC  

[SirPoonga]

Unless you have some really wacky old-school games in mind witht he layout, only arch the neogeo button and leave the other straight.  Why?  Look at your hand and try to arch each finger so that the middle fingers are higher up on the board.  See how uncomfortable that is?  Now put your fingers straight and your thumb slight below and off-set to it.  Guess what your already doing that while your typing with your fingers and thumbs at home position.  Now do you guys get it?  

Well, the above arcs are REALLY arched, mine are slightly arced, it is very comfortable.  Bad keyboard analogy, ergonomic keyboards are made...
Your middle finger should be slightly longer than the rest of the fingers.  now look at them on your keyboard, note how it is bent more in order to be ina  straight line.  Plus when I play arcade game sI usually don;t arc my fingers:)

[Howard_Casto]

Bad keyboard analogy, ergonomic keyboards are made...

Actually very good keyboard analogy.  Recent studies have shown that in many cases "ergonomic" keyboards do more harm than good.  Carpal is caused by doing the same motions over and over, regardless of the finger placement.  The idea behind the "ergonomic" keyboard is to put the hands in a more "natural" position, thus changing the normal habits.    What they are finding is that everyone has a different natural resting state and in many cases those keyboards are even more uncomfortable than a traditional one, mainly because they force you to type a certain way, while traditional keyboards give you more slack to change your posture and fingering style.  

(I know this because my mom has carpal and I have mild arthritis in my hands.)

I use the same philosophy for control panels.  Make them comfortable, but don't make a frikkin pattern based on your own particular hand.  This is because as time passes even your own posture and style will change, and that custom layout may become uncomfortable, or worse, keep you in the habit of using a now akward posture and cause joint problems.   Also other players are going to really hate it.  

[SirPoonga]

What they are finding is that everyone has a different natural resting state and in many cases those keyboards are even more uncomfortable than a traditional one, mainly because they force you to type a certain way, while traditional keyboards give you more slack to change your posture and fingering style.  

This logic doesn't hold.  A traditional keyboard forced you to type a certain way too.

[Howard_Casto]

No it doesn't unless you are stupid enough to listen to typing instructors.  You can have your hands arched at a different height and ect... On an ergonomic keyboard you simply cradle the thing making it nearly impossible to change the arch of your hands.  

Hmm, if I arc my fingers differntly they are either not onf the keys or on the wrong keys.  I guess you got one of those morphing keyboards:)

[elfman12]

This logic doesn't hold.  A traditional keyboard forced you to type a certain way too.

Hey, wow, I'll agree with Howard for once! Actually, a traditional KB is a bit easier to work from different angles (and heights) than, say, an MS Natural KB. It's not a HUGE difference, but still can make a difference.

I get around this by having different KBs on the several computers I use, so that keeps me changing all the time. It's the two right mouse fingers that ache from time to time!

[SirPoonga]

Hey, wow, I'll agree with Howard for once! Actually, a traditional KB is a bit easier to work from different angles (and heights) than, say, an MS Natural KB. It's not a HUGE difference, but still can make a difference.

Actually, that depends on the person.  I know someone who types faster on the m$ keyboard.

It's the two right mouse fingers that ache from time to time!

You have two right mouse fingers?  hehe.



At least today's keyboards aren't like the old typewriters:)