Author Topic: Modding a Vectrex (Read 5981 times)

RayB · « **on:** November 08, 2005, 04:33:47 pm »

I have this idea, discussed in a highjacked BST thread, to build a small cab using a Vectrex, and "enhancing the experience" using techniques such as an "underlay" via reflection techniques.

Basically what that is is reflecting the image of the Vectrex on a semi-reflective mirror, while in the background there is a blacklit image. (The inspiration comes from Asteroids Deluxe. You really have to see it in person to appreciate the effect).

Problem 1: is that I would need a way to easily flip the screen image along the X axis. I am guessing this can be done easily with a small hardware hack. Possibly similar to "yoke flipping"?

Problem 2: Since each game is different, it would require different artwork. For overlays, that can be easily solved by having a small slot where the original Vectrex overlays can be slid in. For the backgrounds it could be a similar set up, or maybe even something on a roll that can be scrolled into place with a hand-crank or motorized solution.

This project will probably never leave the drawing board, but let's hear some ideas!!

Zero_Hour · « **Reply #1 on:** November 08, 2005, 05:04:33 pm »

It's an interesting idea, but If I had a Vectex system, I'd have a hard time hiding it inside a cabinet. I'd be more likely to build a nice display case for it.

RayB · « **Reply #2 on:** November 08, 2005, 09:24:54 pm »

Quote from: Zero_Hour on November 08, 2005, 05:04:33 pm

It's an interesting idea, but If I had a Vectex system, I'd have a hard time hiding it inside a cabinet. I'd be more likely to build a nice display case for it.

But what if you had... TWO?

XtraSmiley · « **Reply #3 on:** November 08, 2005, 10:19:23 pm »

Great idea. VT are cheap on ebay and using a ZVG card you can play actual arcade games on it. Do it man, then I can buy one off of you!

arcadefever · « **Reply #4 on:** November 08, 2005, 10:21:19 pm »

i just got a vectrex and i think this is a good idea !!!
+ i found this guy, i got a cart with 5 games one of them is a clone of asteroids !!!!
http://www.classicgamecreations.com/

Lilwolf · « **Reply #5 on:** November 09, 2005, 08:51:36 am »

Might make a GREAT bartop cab..

wait...

never mind

ChadTower · « **Reply #6 on:** November 09, 2005, 09:16:42 am »

Ray, I'd take this a step further, possibly, and consider using a translucent LCD instead of the physical overlay film. They do exist affordably in the size you'd use for a Vectrex. You'd have not only the ability to have many overlays without swapping anything but you'd also have the ability for LIVE overlays.

I don't know the voltage ranges on the Vec for X and Y, but IIRC it's +12 to -12 for the WG vectors. Since you're working on an XY grid, presumably, in order to flip that X image you'd have to mathematically negate that value (multiply by -1).

I'm not sure how I would try that electrically as I'm not yet at the design capable stage of knowledge. I do know, though, that it would be simple if you were doing it in software. If you're going to use the straight Vec, you'd have to do it in hardware unless you wanted to produce an altered cart for each game. If you're going to emulate the Vec, and had the source code for the emulator, you could do it right there in a couple lines of code, or alternately in the ZVG itself if you had or could get the necessary source.

It could be a very simple thing to do, though, since either electrically or logically it is a simple operation. The next step here would be to make some design decisions and from there the best method will probably become clear.

I like the concept quite a bit. Keep going!

MinerAl · « **Reply #7 on:** November 09, 2005, 10:31:49 am »

rather than worrying about showing the video backwards, use two mirrors to re-reflect the pic back to the correct orientation. Alternatively, if you didn't mind the words and scores being backwards, you could just reverse the left and right (or up and down, or whichever is reversed) axes on the joy and play normally.

I like this idea.

I've been gonna do something similar forever...

ChadTower · « **Reply #8 on:** November 09, 2005, 10:43:43 am »

Using two mirrors would be probably more of a PIA than figuring out how to mirror the image. Now you have two dirt drawing, fragile, need to be perfectly aligned pieces of glass in the cabinet, and you've got your monitor pointed forward for the light to go backwards and then forward again...

Matthew Fisher · « **Reply #9 on:** November 09, 2005, 11:58:11 am »

With the ZVG, you can easily flip the x or y axis in the set ZVGPORT command line. As described on page 2-11 of the manual:

http://www.zektor.com/zvg/downloads/UserGuide_v0_3.pdf

On the other hand, if you just wanted to run the Vectrex "as is", couldn't you desolder the two wires that go to the yoke for X deflection and switch them? Easy enough to do and also undo, which is important. That way, +voltage is left instead of right (assuming it's set up that way) and visa versa.

ChadTower · « **Reply #10 on:** November 09, 2005, 12:21:36 pm »

Quote from: Matthew Fisher on November 09, 2005, 11:58:11 am

With the ZVG, you can easily flip the x or y axis in the set ZVGPORT command line.

Matthew Fisher · « **Reply #11 on:** November 09, 2005, 12:49:50 pm »

Awesome on the ZVG, but does that support a Vec emulator?

ChadTower · « **Reply #12 on:** November 09, 2005, 12:52:25 pm »

I have always planned on buying a ZVG. I didn't have the cash, and then when I did, it was out of stock... by the time more were fabricated, I was out the cash again.

MameMaster! · « **Reply #13 on:** November 09, 2005, 01:12:27 pm »

....I hate you guys....now you have me thinking about buying a Vectrex.

$:-\$

AC. · « **Reply #14 on:** November 09, 2005, 01:13:36 pm »

I have a Vectrex with about 7 carts and that is an interesting idea. I have heard pure rumor-and-opinion-only strange tales of a certain multi-cart that has several vec titles on it - no links, no mention of any improper purpose....

Ive got a vex EMU that does emulate the carts I already have. I don't know and maybe this is an easy (and/or dumb) question, but, what does it take for a PC based EMU to get hooked up to a vector monitor?

ChadTower · « **Reply #15 on:** November 09, 2005, 01:16:39 pm »

Original back in the day released titles for the Vectrex are all freely distributable (nonprofit), released by the owners, I believe. Talking about them on a multicart is not verboten.

For an emulator to run on a vector monitor, you would want the ZVG mentioned above.

Matthew Fisher · « **Reply #16 on:** November 09, 2005, 01:29:05 pm »

The ZVG is the only solution I know of to hook an emulator to a vector monitor.

ChadTower · « **Reply #17 on:** November 09, 2005, 01:31:19 pm »

Hey, do you have a URL for Debris?

RayB · « **Reply #18 on:** November 09, 2005, 01:34:13 pm »

I don't want to touch emulators. IMO that would negate the whole cool factor of this idea.

I have an early version Sean Kelly multi-cart. Unfortunately it runs off dipswitches. I'd sure like to upgrade it to the menu-driven version.

ChadTower · « **Reply #19 on:** November 09, 2005, 01:39:25 pm »

If you ebay the dip switched version, it sells for big bucks now.

Matthew Fisher · « **Reply #20 on:** November 09, 2005, 01:40:55 pm »

Debris info at

www.vectrexnews.com

(I'm having a hard time getting to it at the moment.)

VecFlash info at

www.vectrex.biz

If you sold your multicart on ebay you could probably buy at least two VecFlashes, which, IMO, seem a lot more useful.

Zero_Hour · « **Reply #21 on:** November 09, 2005, 01:46:46 pm »

Quote from: RayB on November 08, 2005, 09:24:54 pm

Quote from: Zero_Hour on November 08, 2005, 05:04:33 pm
It's an interesting idea, but If I had a Vectex system, I'd have a hard time hiding it inside a cabinet. I'd be more likely to build a nice display case for it.

But what if you had... TWO?

I should have seen that coming.

ChadTower · « **Reply #22 on:** November 09, 2005, 01:59:15 pm »

So, found some info on RGV... but it just points you to vectrexnews, which is of course down, and it looks like Debris may be sold out already. Dammit.

RandyT · « **Reply #23 on:** November 09, 2005, 02:31:26 pm »

It would be nice if there were another way than modding the poor old Vectrex's. There are so few of them left out there.

What someone needs to do is find a source for nice, hi-res monochrome monitors to crank the brightness up on and use an emulator with.

At 1024x768, the resolution is very "vector-like" and the fact that there is no aperture grill helps to complete the illusion. I had a chance to get a ton of 9" mono monitors a few years back and turned them down (stupid...stupid...stupid...)

RandyT

ChadTower · « **Reply #24 on:** November 09, 2005, 02:32:34 pm »

Rape all your old VTs!

Maybe some old oscilloscopes, though those cost a LOT more than Vectrexes.

AC. · « **Reply #25 on:** November 09, 2005, 03:55:34 pm »

Quote from: ChadTower on November 09, 2005, 01:16:39 pm

For an emulator to run on a vector monitor, you would want the ZVG mentioned above.

Cooooool. My life now has meaning again! Im gonna look into building a vector cab.

I own a starwars, used to own an Asteroids Deluxe, and a Ripoff (cocktail) model. sold asteroids and ripoff since student loans were more important at the time. I'll be buried with my starwars cab. But I always loved vector games.

Samstag · « **Reply #26 on:** November 09, 2005, 07:50:38 pm »

Somebody has a use for 9" (or thereabouts) monochrome vector monitors?

We've got several huge piles of red, green and blue tubes at work that we haven't thrown away yet. I'm guessing we have a minimum of 100-150 tubes. Most were pulled because they dropped below our brightness spec but even at that level they get so bright you can't safely look directly into them. If they were turned down to a comfortable direct-view brightness they probably still have many years left in them.

The downside is that none of the electronics would be included and I'm not sure you'd be able to find coils and amps that can drive these for a reasonable price.

ChadTower · « **Reply #27 on:** November 10, 2005, 09:58:07 am »

Hrm... could be useful if local, but if all you have are the raw tubes and no drivers, not sure how useful they could be.

Samstag · « **Reply #28 on:** November 10, 2005, 11:09:56 am »

Yeah the more I think about it the less likely it seems these would be very useable. These systems are pretty specialized as far as I know so there's not much chance of finding off-the-shelf coils and electronics. Although if you want to buy a whole 3-color projector they're only $40,000. That's actually pretty cheap considering we just spent about $35,000 per projector just in tubes for a competitor's system.

It's a shame. Most of the tubes we reject are for small changes in color shading, or they can't produce a bright enough raster. But the vector brightness is still strong enough to burn the phosphor right off in under 30 seconds at max intensity.

ChadTower · « **Reply #29 on:** November 10, 2005, 11:22:10 am »

How do they compare to the tube size for a Vectrex?

Samstag · « **Reply #30 on:** November 10, 2005, 01:11:40 pm »

I'll try to get a measurement tonight but I'm thinking it's a slightly smaller screen area. I've never actually seen a live Vectrex so I'm going by pics and specs. One major size difference is the tube neck. It looks like the Vectrex has a pretty short neck. The tubes I've got are something like 22" from face to neckboard.

I'll get some pictures. You've probably never seen anything like these.

ChadTower · « **Reply #31 on:** November 10, 2005, 01:13:46 pm »

Well, I'm picturing long tubes like those in oscilloscopes.

What I'm thinking, is that if someone had a Vectrex with a dead tube, maybe we could see how well the Vectrex chassis can drive one of these things.

tetsujin · « **Reply #32 on:** November 10, 2005, 05:58:16 pm »

Quote from: RandyT on November 09, 2005, 02:31:26 pm

What someone needs to do is find a source for nice, hi-res monochrome monitors to crank the brightness up on and use an emulator with.

This is about the only thing I can think of that makes me wish I hadn't given away the 19" black-and-white NCD X-Terminal I got from my school...

danny_galaga · « **Reply #33 on:** November 13, 2005, 02:25:46 am »

Quote from: XtraSmiley on November 08, 2005, 10:19:23 pm

Great idea.

RayB · « **Reply #34 on:** November 13, 2005, 02:14:43 pm »

Quote from: danny_galaga on November 13, 2005, 02:25:46 am

i thought the game was asteroids, but from what i can tell reading about vectrex its similar but not asteroids...

Minestomr is the game that comes built-in with the system. Asteroids clone.

ChadTower · « **Reply #35 on:** November 14, 2005, 09:19:53 am »

And Minestorm 3D is the standard by which all 3D games should be measured.


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