Author Topic: Double Dragon - my first restoration (Read 16826 times)

TravistyOJ · « **on:** October 30, 2005, 09:17:01 pm »

I picked up a Double Dragon cab that was converted to a Neo Geo 1 slot for free! Thanks James.

Heres a link to the original thread: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=31467.0

And heres a link to the free thread:
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=44828.0

All right, now I got this cab, what should I do with it? Well, at first I was just gunna convert it to something else. I don't think anyone would mind either, since a DD really isn't all that rare. But I've never done a restoration project, and I really love DD, even though I played the NES version more as a kid, but the arcade version is just uncompareably better.

So, now where to start. Heres some pics of the cab:

TravistyOJ · « **Reply #1 on:** October 30, 2005, 09:19:39 pm »

First, I ripped off that Neo Geo CPO to see what I could get underneath. Check out the control underneath. I can see the arcade operator who converted this: "Quick disconnect terminals? No way! Im just gunna twist the wires up"

I was able to boot this cab up, but the monitor has power isseus, needs a cap kit, and has burn-in, so I think I might just get a new one. I see the Happ Pro Vision 19" on eBay all the time, they go for like $150.

The wiring job was just so amazingly awful and confusing, I have an extra JAMMA harness, so I think Im gunna rewire the JAMMA portion, and just keep the power as-is, b/c the power is fine, but the JAMMA harness is the most horrible mess, and no quick disconnect terminals, everythings just twisted together.

TravistyOJ · « **Reply #2 on:** October 30, 2005, 09:21:06 pm »

OK, now I tried out what the guy who gave me this cab said to try. Goof Off 2! I was really excited and had illusions of restoring perfect sideart, instead it seems the cabinet had an oil based paint, and I tried several different ways to strip the paint, but it was either all or nothing. No way to save the sideart.

Oh well, I guess I'll peel the big sticker, fill some cracks with putty, sand, prime, and repaint it. Maybe I can turn up some Taito sideart stencils.

Did most of one side, it is really slow work, Im gunna try this with a hairdryer later. Ive done enough today.

SuperGunGuru · « **Reply #3 on:** October 30, 2005, 09:44:56 pm »

Good luck with the resto. I remember playing Double Dragon at a local roller rink when I was a kid. Seems like I always see them at auctions but I never win them. I'd still like to get a dedicated one someday.

Infinity_Yak · « **Reply #4 on:** October 30, 2005, 10:08:09 pm »

Looks like a good project! And I thought I was the only one who played DD at the rollercade

All you need are some bullying teenagers pushing you away from the machine, stealing your game because they think they know how to play better than you... And you can't kick them because you're on roller skates- but you CAN get vengeance by roller-dancing better than them... whoops, my sad, tragic past is coming back

I know what you're talking about with the sideart- I just picked up a Two Tigers cab (a tron conversion), and have been trying to restore it. I spent about 7 hours taking the two layers of vinyl off without destroying the cab underneath. Hair dryer + Patience is the key- the 24 year old vinyl was no match for that!

TravistyOJ · « **Reply #5 on:** October 31, 2005, 10:59:19 pm »

In the search for artwork, I found this pic. Think I can use it? Once I vectorize it what's next? I'd really like to have adhesives printed rather than painting, I really don't think my first attempt at painting will be all that pretty. Where can I have this printed? What kind of price we talkin? Is applying a full size side art decal pretty tough to do right? lol, so many questions

RetroJames · « **Reply #6 on:** November 01, 2005, 09:58:39 am »

Quote from: TravistyOJ on October 31, 2005, 10:59:19 pm

In the search for artwork, I found this pic. Think I can use it?

SirPoonga · « **Reply #7 on:** November 01, 2005, 11:43:30 am »

Quote from: TravistyOJ on October 30, 2005, 09:19:39 pm

First, I ripped off that Neo Geo CPO to see what I could get underneath. Check out the control underneath. I can see the arcade operator who converted this: "Quick disconnect terminals? No way! Im just gunna twist the wires up"

heh
FYI the pics in the other threads with dd having blue and red scheme (balltops and buttons) is correct. Plus DD and DD2 used leafswitches.

TravistyOJ · « **Reply #8 on:** November 06, 2005, 01:31:43 am »

Finally some updates! First of I was able to get a high-res pic of the taito sideart from a big fan of Double Dragon, check out his homage to it:

http://www.arcadefever.net/DOUBLEDRAGONCABINET/DOUBLEDRAGCAB.html

Once I got the image, I took my first stab at vectorizing it, The Taito sideart was perfect for me as a beginer, mostly just straight lines, but I did learn a lot of cool vector tracing techniques.

Also, I found out a friend of mine's dad runs a small printshop, so maybe he can cut me a deal on printing this out! I plan on just getting a small peice of printed vinyl from him, then testing it with a couple different adhesives, then trying the clear coat/sanding method James told me about. When all is said and done I think it will look sweet. Then once I am pleased with it, I will upload it to Arcade Art Library for all to use!

TravistyOJ · « **Reply #9 on:** November 06, 2005, 01:42:33 am »

I finally finished removing all that @%$#! vinyl adhesive.

Quote

Hair dryer + Patience is the key

Never have truer words been spoken.

OK, so now that I got it removed, before I get my sideart on there, Im gunna fill some of those corners where it looks like beavers had a nice snack, and some of those holes where some arcade operator went nuts with a drill. I found some Minwax Wood filler, the stuff is great, easy to work with, and hard as a rock after a half an hour.

If you use this stuff make sure of a couple things. 1. Don't take your time, put it on quickly, too much is no problem, since the next step is sanding anyway. 2. Make sure you have the opposite of whatever the stuff is. You dont want to get all over your hands, only to look at the label that says "remove with acetone" and say "Feck! I dont have any acetone!"

Well, I have filled some holes and built up some edges, tomorrow is sanding and the other side!

arcadefever · « **Reply #10 on:** November 06, 2005, 10:46:57 am »

wowwwwwwwwwwwwwww nice job !!!! i got your email about taking a picture of the all cab , but i didnt have time, i've been a bit busy at work ... i can see that you manage to do it well !!! i cant wait to see that cab finish !!!!
keep the good job.

Infinity_Yak · « **Reply #11 on:** November 06, 2005, 12:16:38 pm »

Your project is looking scarily like mine at this point - it's good to know someone doing a restoration is doing exaclty the same things as I am.

I used that Minwax "binary-mixture" filler on mine last week as well to build up corners and fill where necessary. It is really good stuff, dries really quickly, and is surprisingly good to mold. After about 10 minutes the stuff is solid enough that you can shape it without it dripping all over the place, but soft enough to add more to whatever you're building up.

Looks like you're ready for some sanding and priming!

Here's a quick test to determine what kinds of primer to use (and it does make a difference):

-Take some nailpolish remover on a cloth, and rub it on the different surfaces of the cabinet. Paint should rub off on the sides that have water-based paint, but not on surfaces that have oil-based paint. Be sure to use a hard foam roller to apply.

TravistyOJ · « **Reply #12 on:** November 06, 2005, 05:20:49 pm »

Thanks for the primer tip, but I dont think I will need to prime as I am going to apply the complete sideart as printed vinyl. Should I prime anyway?

So far done today, filled and sanded both sides, and cleaned and repainted coin door, next im gunna fill and repaint the front.

RetroJames · « **Reply #13 on:** November 06, 2005, 06:04:03 pm »

Quote from: TravistyOJ on November 06, 2005, 01:31:43 am

Once I got the image, I took my first stab at vectorizing it, The Taito sideart was perfect for me as a beginer, mostly just straight lines, but I did learn a lot of cool vector tracing techniques.

Infinity_Yak · « **Reply #14 on:** November 06, 2005, 07:30:43 pm »

Whoops, skipped over the part with the printed sideart

In that case I probably wouldn't bother with priming, as long as you can get the surface clean.

You said you repainted your coin door- what did you use, and how did you prep it?

TravistyOJ · « **Reply #15 on:** November 06, 2005, 08:00:55 pm »

As for the coin door, I just lightly sanded it and spray painted it with Semi-gloss black. Dont know if it will turn out very good, I just did it, and it says its not completely dry until 24 hours. Is there a better method than this?

TravistyOJ · « **Reply #16 on:** November 06, 2005, 08:27:16 pm »

Got a sideart question, look at how different these two DD cabs are. Which one do you think is closer to the real side art color, and what do you think happened to the art to make it like this?

JoyMonkey · « **Reply #17 on:** November 06, 2005, 08:54:52 pm »

They look the same to me. There's some lighting differences, thats all; notice how all colors in the first pic are brighter and more vivid, as if the camera has a powerful flash and is standing too close to the cabinets. The second photo is in shadow as if the camera is far away or the flash is delayed.
That or just two very different camera apertures.

TravistyOJ · « **Reply #18 on:** November 06, 2005, 10:37:45 pm »

Yeah, I think the first pic was from a camera with a really bright flash. Just wanted a second opinion. My Tatio sideart is further up, anybody let me know if any of the colors seem off at all.

Ok now on to another stupid question. Below is the drawer which holds the DD PCB. What is that stuff that looks like tin foil lined cardboard? Im guessing it was an FCC reuglations thing added to the cab to cut down on RF emission. I took it all out since it was torn up and rotting. Should I try to hunt down something exactly like this, or leave my drawer as it is now?

RetroJames · « **Reply #19 on:** November 06, 2005, 10:59:37 pm »

I think I would remove the old (rot, yuck) and see if I could locate similar material. I would bet you could find something very similar at an art supply store or something. If you could not find anything and you have to have it you might try poster board + contact cement + tin foil and try making something that is similar and looks as it should. For looks alone I bet silver spray paint and poster board would do the trick.

RetroJames · « **Reply #20 on:** November 06, 2005, 11:05:01 pm »

Fast Google Results

===================================

Yasutomo Metallic Silver Paper

http://www.dickblick.com/zz112/45e/

====================================

Nature Saver Metallic/White Poster Board

http://www.officedepot.com/products/Nature-Saver-Poster-Boards-x-Box/517944/

====================================

RIV04031: Poster Board, 4 Ply, 22"x28", Silver

Link

TravistyOJ · « **Reply #21 on:** November 06, 2005, 11:40:42 pm »

Cool thanks man, but I'm wondering, do I actually need it? I mean does it technically help anything? Does anyone know the function of it?

Also, when can i come by and pick up that free Ladybug stuff for my friend. Thanks James

RetroJames · « **Reply #22 on:** November 07, 2005, 12:38:54 am »

I'm not sure about the fucntion etc. You will want to post that to rgvac, raster list, or sci.electronics.repair

re: the parts - check your mail!

Infinity_Yak · « **Reply #23 on:** November 07, 2005, 01:07:51 pm »

I can't think of a good reason why you'd need to have a metal-lined box, unless the DD pcbs either:

1) emit way too much RF power, and instead of fixing the problem they took the poor engineering approach to fixing the problem.
2) is susceptable to interference from other sources, ie.. fluorescents, power supplies, etc. Once again, if it were necessary, that would be a sign of poor engineering.

From my experience, (usually) arcade hardware is engineered for durability, so it might just be there to make absolutely sure that nothing could possibly interfere with the cabinets operation. So I doubt it's truly necessary, but if you're going to all the trouble to remanufacture your machine, you might as well make a replacement.

ssc arcade · « **Reply #24 on:** November 07, 2005, 02:25:24 pm »

As for the Foil lined paper, I am 99% sure that it was EMI related. I used to work for a computer manuf. (located in south dakota, hint .. cow spots) and designed cases. A large part of case design was not only heat related but had to pass FCC EMI testing, I didn't think that arcade games had to pass any testing, but who knows?

Anyway short answer, it should not effect anything by not replacing the foil paper, with the number of MB's not in cases in MAME cabs it doesn't seem to matter (unless you are selling them to hospitals or airports I suppose).

Curious, was the foil paper completely around the board or just under it. It would not do any good unless it encased the electronics. If it was just under it maybe it was just to make a better ground plane for the boards to be mounted to.

TravistyOJ · « **Reply #25 on:** November 07, 2005, 02:36:25 pm »

It lined the bottom of the drawer and the bottom of a cover over the drawer, so when you slid it in, it was completely housed by the stuff. Thanks for all the input, I think Im just gunna leave it without unless I have problems.

RetroJames · « **Reply #26 on:** November 07, 2005, 02:47:17 pm »

There ya go - here is a little thread from RGP that may bolster you in your decision -

Link

RetroJames · « **Reply #27 on:** November 07, 2005, 03:23:21 pm »

Quote from: ssc arcade on November 07, 2005, 02:25:24 pm

As for the Foil lined paper, I am 99% sure that it was EMI related.

TravistyOJ · « **Reply #28 on:** November 09, 2005, 09:01:28 pm »

I didnt have to go to work today, you know what that means? Updates!! I did a lot today, i finished filling the front of the cab. The cab had 10 big holes drilled in the front for big industrial bars and other things that arent really necessary for home use. So I filled em with that wood filler stuff, sanded, then I primed, sanded, painted, sanded, and painted again! Yeah it was a lot of work, but Im pleased with it.

Now I know the top and back arent really things that matter how they look, but Im gunna do this to the top and back as well, why not, I still got lots of paint and primer left over.

TravistyOJ · « **Reply #29 on:** November 09, 2005, 09:05:50 pm »

Man, I want to finish this cab so I can play Double Dragon, but in the mean time, I found an alternative.

RetroJames · « **Reply #30 on:** November 09, 2005, 11:09:52 pm »

DUDE! You are like a boxer in training! No *** before the fight. Put ways the handheld, abstain until the REAL game is done...

;o)

TravistyOJ · « **Reply #31 on:** November 10, 2005, 10:21:53 pm »

One small update. I was a bit disappointed today when I received what someone told me was an "Original Double Dragon bezel, not a repro". Well, not only was it a repro, it was a bad one.

Take a look. I have my original monitor bezel (the one with the 2 neo geo led board gouges) underneath the repro. In the first pic you can see, the dragons dont even have eyes! And they're claws are like lime green. And in the second pic, you'll see the convenient leaving out of the copyright information. I have emailed the guy, maybe he will work with me, but I have a feeling I have been ripped off.

RetroJames · « **Reply #32 on:** November 10, 2005, 10:28:17 pm »

Um yeah, that does not look right.

But, press ahead even if you get stuck with the repro, it would do in a pinch, but do press the guy to see WTF?

Harumph.

edit: why would someone go THAT far to make a repro and then blow easy deatils like that? Don't get it. The colors you could explain away but no copyrite?

TravistyOJ · « **Reply #33 on:** November 10, 2005, 10:48:31 pm »

Hey, just got a response from that guy, He sent me an email saying something like, "Well you can get a refund if u want but it is original" implying that I dont know what im talking about, so I sent him the pics and he's like "Oh, heres the address to ship it to"

LOL. So I will be getting my refund, but the bezel hunt remains.

In the mean time, I am just awestruck how bad this repro is. I mean someone's actual thought process was "Ehh, skip the eyes, no one will notice if a dragon doesnt have eyes" The guy also said that he has sold 30 of these and hasnt had a single complaint. Either he is lying, or i am too picky.

RetroJames · « **Reply #34 on:** November 10, 2005, 11:42:06 pm »

Its the misrepresentation that gets me. I can exchange some quality for some savings, but to say it was NOS is suspect at best.

RayB · « **Reply #35 on:** November 10, 2005, 11:49:14 pm »

If it were NOS, chances are he wouldn't have over 30 of them!

RetroJames · « **Reply #36 on:** November 10, 2005, 11:55:17 pm »

Quote from: RayB on November 10, 2005, 11:49:14 pm

If it were NOS, chances are he wouldn't have over 30 of them!

possible but no probable ... great point

OntarioGamer · « **Reply #37 on:** November 12, 2005, 05:55:15 pm »

Wow this restoration job looks rough...

Has it been more work than you expected so far?

TravistyOJ · « **Reply #38 on:** November 13, 2005, 01:58:17 am »

Quote

Wow this restoration job looks rough...

Has it been more work than you expected so far?

Well, its kinda hard to say. I am definitely doing more than I thought I would. But at the same time, its been pretty fun for me, I think I am really past the hard parts. I think this is a good time to set out my final battle plan

Comments and suggestions are welcome. All that's really left to do is:

1.) Paint the back and top, just for the sake of completeness

I plan on doing that tomorrow

2.) Purchase and apply sideart. I am starting to have second thoughts about this. I mean I'm looking at around $150 for the sideart, when I can just paint it black for free (I still have lots of paint leftover), and I am fairly confident it would look nice. But it might nag me in the future, since its not original. But then again, I mean its not exactly amazing artwork, its just the Taito logo. What do you guys think? I mean i Know its my wallet and ultimately my decision, but sideart or paint?

3.) Rewire JAMMA portion of cab

4.) Repair and recap monitor, I found a local guy who will do this for like $40

Ill be doing this sometime next week prolly. Unfortunately my Neo Geo monitor is about to bite the dust so I gotta get that repaired too.

5.) Tie up odds and ends, like bezel, control panel, t-molding, etc. BTW, anyone have any suggestions on a good place to get t-molding?

6.) Get a Double Dragon PCB, lol. Funny how I dont even have the game yet. Anyone want one they are sick of?

So I know that is a lot of steps, but it really involves more money than work. So for all you ppl out there who are thinking of doing a resto, keep in mind it will prolly take up more time and money than just buying a decent cab. Especially if you are picky about things like me, (see bezel posts above), but you will end up with pretty much a mint cab, that is all your own, and that you will be proud of. Oh yeah final step:

7.) Beat the crap out of Abobo again and again and again:)

TravistyOJ · « **Reply #39 on:** November 13, 2005, 02:10:30 am »

Hmmm, I need opinions for my sideart dilemma. What do you guys think about this dragon sideart from classic arcade grafix?

Pros: 1/3 of the cost, IMO looks cooler
Cons: Not original, doesnt cover the entire side

I think I am reaching a turning point in my arcade collecting. Do I go the path of what is better or what is orignal? Opinions please


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