TRON control panel

[2slk]

 Hi folks. I'm new to both this forum and arcade controls. I am planning a panel almost for the exclusive purpose of playing TRON. This has led to several questions that I am hopeful someone can help me out with.

 My first concern is with the authenticity and feel of the gameplay. In a best-case scenario, I'll be able to get my hands on an original TRON control panel. Is it possible to interface the original panel with an I-PAC/OPTI-PAC combo?

 If I can't obtain an original panel, what is my next best option? The HAPPS heavy-duty 8-way trigger stick resembles the original TRON stick a lot but I understand that the HAPPS stick gives false diagonals in the game, particularly with the light cycles. Is this because the HAPPS is a micro switch stick and the original is a leaf stick or is this an issue with the way MAME emulates TRON? I suppose I could add a 4-way stick to the panel but I would like to avoid that if possible.

 Well, that's all I can remember for now. Thanks in advance!!!

[SirPoonga]

Tron and/or Discs of Tron?

Yeah, shouldn't be too hard to interface with ipac/optipac.

[Brax]

 If I can't obtain an original panel, what is my next best option? The HAPPS heavy-duty 8-way trigger stick resembles the original TRON stick a lot but I understand that the HAPPS stick gives false diagonals in the game, particularly with the light cycles. Is this because the HAPPS is a micro switch stick and the original is a leaf stick or is this an issue with the way MAME emulates TRON? I suppose I could add a 4-way stick to the panel but I would like to avoid that if possible.

Here's your solution to that.
http://users.adelphia.net/~bsturk/mame/controls.html

It's not terribly hard once you find a donor joytick and it's as good as the original.

If you want an up/down spinner as well that will take a little more ingenuity... Especially for the Pro spinner. (but i have a few ideas already)

[2slk]

I contacted the gentleman who put the above project together. It didn't work in the sense the he still had problems with the diagonals. He had leaf hacked a HAPPS heavy duty triggerstick. Eventually, he replaced it with a Xenophobe joystick but he still has trouble with the diaonals. Can anyone else offer any suggestions (aside from buying a TRON upright. Too $$$ and not enough space)?

Thanks in advance!

[telengard]

I contacted the gentleman who put the above project together. It didn't work in the sense the he still had problems with the diagonals. He had leaf hacked a HAPPS heavy duty triggerstick. Eventually, he replaced it with a Xenophobe joystick but he still has trouble with the diaonals. Can anyone else offer any suggestions (aside from buying a TRON upright. Too $$$ and not enough space)?

Thanks in advance!

That would be me!  

I must have confused you in my email response to you.  The leaf hack made
the Happs trigger *better* but not perfect.  I haven't not tried the Xenophobe
joystick, but I believe it is the same joystick as that used in Tron, so my assumption is that it will be just fine.

[2slk]

OH, I see. I understood that you had replaced the leaf-hacked HAPPS with a xenophobe stick and it still wasn't great with diagonals. My mistake, sorry.

 I guess I'll be searching for an original TRON or XENOPHOBE stick. Are there any other games that used this stick?

[telengard]

OH, I see. I understood that you had replaced the leaf-hacked HAPPS with a xenophobe stick and it still wasn't great with diagonals. My mistake, sorry.

 I guess I'll be searching for an original TRON or XENOPHOBE stick. Are there any other games that used this stick?

Hrm, I imagine any of the Bally/Midway games that used them.  The
only other one I can think of is Satan's Hollow.  It's a cool red one,
although it was a 2-way game, so I'm not 100% on that one.

[Xphile]

i picked up an aqua jack stick on ebay that looks amazingly like a tron (cept it's red and not see thru:-)

cann see the game here:
http://www.klov.com/game_detail.php?letter=A&game_id=174

satans hollow is only a two way (l/r) stick whilst the aqua jack is 8 way like tron...hmmm..two thumb buttons too, so if you can't find a 'discs' spinner, you could just use a thumb button for the up/down signal..<?>

it's analog too, so it's a perfect hack to the logitech wingman warrior extreme...(the one with the spinner on the joystick...)

[telengard]

i picked up an aqua jack stick on ebay that looks amazingly like a tron (cept it's red and not see thru:-)

cann see the game here:
http://www.klov.com/game_detail.php?letter=A&game_id=174

satans hollow is only a two way (l/r) stick whilst the aqua jack is 8 way like tron...hmmm..two thumb buttons too, so if you can't find a 'discs' spinner, you could just use a thumb button for the up/down signal..<?>

it's analog too, so it's a perfect hack to the logitech wingman warrior extreme...(the one with the spinner on the joystick...)

Yeah, I knew the game was a 2-way, wasn't sure about the joy... now I know.

That's too funny about the DOT solution.  That's exactly what I do.  One button
for the spark block thingie, and one for the up/down button.  Works well.

Someday I'd love to get my hands on a DOT environmental cab though.  I
played once back when it was out and remember being completely dumbstruck
by it.

[spidermonkey]

I have a Happ 8-way heavy duty trigger stick and the only way to de-sensitize the horizontals is to get the diamond shaped restrictor insert that the original tron stick had. You remove the the open 8-way insert that comes with the Happ stick and the Tron restrictor insert fits right in. I know this because I bought a complete tron control panel but since I already had my Happ stick mounted in my cp I just used the restrictor insert and the blue plastic shells off the tron stick instead of switching the whole stick. I recently bought another pair of blue tron shells and since I have the original diamond restrictor insert, I'm going to make a copy of it using a piece of nylon from a cutting board. I will then put back together the original tron stick that I robbed the parts off of and use it on my next cabinet. Oh and by the way, if you have a Happ triggerstick don't bother trying to use the original big red round actuator off of the original tron stick because it only works along with the leaf switches the the tron stick used. You only need the original restrictor insert to solve the diagonal problems. The Happ stick uses a square actuator because it uses microswitches.

8-way microswitch joysticks use a square actuator
4-way microswitch joysticks use a round actuator
Leaf switch joysticks both 8-way and 4-way use the same round actuator. The only difference is the joystick body of a 4-way has a diamond shaped hole where the shaft passes through and an 8-way has a round hole.  The Tron stick is an exception. It is an 8-way but did have a 4-way diamond shaped restrictor insert but by using the oversized round red actuator they were able to get the stick to hit the diagonals even with the restrictor. The result was an 8-way joystick with extremely unsensitive diagonal contacts. It was sensitive enough to work as an 8-way for three of the stages on tron but not too sensitive that you lost control on the light cycle stage. Hope this clears things up on the subject of Tron sticks.  

[telengard]

I have a Happ 8-way heavy duty trigger stick and the only way to de-sensitize the horizontals is to get the diamond shaped restrictor insert that the original tron stick had. You remove the the open 8-way insert that comes with the Happ stick and the Tron restrictor insert fits right in. I know this because I bought a complete tron control panel but since I already had my Happ stick mounted in my cp I just used the restrictor insert and the blue plastic shells off the tron stick instead of switching the whole stick. I recently bought another pair of blue tron shells and since I have the original diamond restrictor insert, I'm going to make a copy of it using a piece of nylon from a cutting board. I will then put back together the original tron stick that I robbed the parts off of and use it on my next cabinet. Oh and by the way, if you have a Happ triggerstick don't bother trying to use the original big red round actuator off of the original tron stick because it only works along with the leaf switches the the tron stick used. You only need the original restrictor insert to solve the diagonal problems. The Happ stick uses a square actuator because it uses microswitches.

8-way microswitch joysticks use a square actuator
4-way microswitch joysticks use a round actuator
Leaf switch joysticks both 8-way and 4-way use the same round actuator. The only difference is the joystick body of a 4-way has a diamond shaped hole where the shaft passes through and an 8-way has a round hole.  The Tron stick is an exception. It is an 8-way but did have a 4-way diamond shaped restrictor insert but by using the oversized round red actuator they were able to get the stick to hit the diagonals even with the restrictor. The result was an 8-way joystick with extremely unsensitive diagonal contacts. It was sensitive enough to work as an 8-way for three of the stages on tron but not too sensitive that you lost control on the light cycle stage. Hope this clears things up on the subject of Tron sticks.  

Very interesting!  Although it sounds like I will probably not get much
better control using a Xenophobe joystick in lieu of a Tron one.  I can't
remember if it has the diamond restrictor you speak of.  It definetly has the red
round actuator.

[spidermonkey]

List of games that used the Tron style trigger stick

Tron:  8-way/4-way hybrid  color blue

Discs of Tron:  8-way  color  blue

Satans Hallow:  2-way left/right  color red

Astron Belt: (laserdisc game) 8-way or analog?  color black but a couple machines were released with translucent GREEN ! (cool as hell) but VERY RARE.

Gorf:  8-way color black but joystick insert was red and lit up when fire trigger was pulled. (very cool)

Crater Raider:  8-way color black

Earth Friend  8-way color black  game was a prototype. Not sure if any were ever released.

Xenophobe: 8-way color black with colored inserts

Mad Planets:  8-way color black

Solar Fox:  2-way vertical up/down color blue

M.A.C.H. 3:  8-way or analog (not sure) color black

Galaxy Ranger (laserdisc game) 8-way color black

Two Tigers:   Triggersticks were mounted flight yokes (two per yoke) but handle shells can be used for regular tron sticks.

Kosmik Krooz'r:  8-way Almost positive the color was black

Some of these sticks had thumb buttons and some didn't depending on the game but ALL the handle shells are swappable.

I know there's a couple of games I missed but this is most of them.
Can anybody add to this list?

[spidermonkey]

Sorry Telengard but I'm pretty sure that the Xenophobe stick used a round insert ( no restrictor) like Gorf did.

[spidermonkey]

Oh yeh,
Add "Aqua Jack" to the list.
analog color solid red
Again even though it looks like the tron stick the fact that its analog probably doesn't make it the best candidate for playing tron. This is actually very similar to the Happ stick part#95-0701-00

[2slk]

Spidermonkey, What about the Discs of TRON joystick/control panel? Do you know what insert the joystick has? If it's a typical 8-way, is it possible to swap it with a diamond shaped one from TRON to de-sensitize it?  

[spidermonkey]

2slk
I'm almost positive that the Disc's of Tron stick is a regular 8-way with the standard open insert but yes the diamond shaped one from Tron will fit right in. The restrictor also helps in the tank stage of Tron since that stage also calls for a 4-way but at least you can get by with using an 8-way on that stage but forget about the light cycle stage. I never took apart a Discs of Tron stick but from playing the game I don't see where there would have been a need do dampen the diagonals for that game. I wish I had a damn digital camera so I could post a pic of the restrictor insert and its dimentions If I have to I'll take my stick apart and post the dimentions so you guys can just make your own. It can be made out of a piece of plastic. (very simple design) If anybody already has a Tron stick in pieces then maybe they can post the dimentions but if not I'll take mine apart.
S.M.

[spidermonkey]

2slk
I'm almost positive that the Disc's of Tron stick is a regular 8-way with the standard open insert but yes the diamond shaped one from Tron will fit right in. The restrictor also helps in the tank stage of Tron since that stage also calls for a 4-way but at least you can get by with using an 8-way on that stage but forget about the light cycle stage. I never took apart a Discs of Tron stick but from playing the game I don't see where there would have been a need do dampen the diagonals for that game. I wish I had a damn digital camera so I could post a pic of the restrictor insert but if I have to I'll take my stick apart and post the dimentions so you guys can just make your own. It can be made out of a piece of plastic. (very simple design) If anybody already has a Tron stick in pieces then maybe they can post the dimentions but if not I'll take mine apart.
S.M.

[spidermonkey]

I don't quite know what just happened but I only posted that message once. I think    Oh well carry on...

[OSCAR]

2slk
I'm almost positive that the Disc's of Tron stick is a regular 8-way with the standard open insert but yes the diamond shaped one from Tron will fit right in. The restrictor also helps in the tank stage of Tron since that stage also calls for a 4-way but at least you can get by with using an 8-way on that stage but forget about the light cycle stage. I never took apart a Discs of Tron stick but from playing the game I don't see where there would have been a need do dampen the diagonals for that game. I wish I had a damn digital camera so I could post a pic of the restrictor insert and its dimentions If I have to I'll take my stick apart and post the dimentions so you guys can just make your own. It can be made out of a piece of plastic. (very simple design) If anybody already has a Tron stick in pieces then maybe they can post the dimentions but if not I'll take mine apart.
S.M.

Sorry I got in on this one late, but this topic came up last summer while I had a Tron control that I was working on.  I took a bunch of pics & dimensions of the restrictor, actuator, base, etc...
I don't have the control panel anymore so I can't any more pics/measurements, but hopefully the ones below will help out.  

http://www.oscarcontrols.com/tron

[spidermonkey]

Oscar,
I just realized something. The Tron style joystick has two restrictors. I can't remember how to patch a picture to this post but check out the exploded view on the Happ heavy duty 8-way triggerstick. Look at part #96-4535-00  This is the restrictor insert that I'm talking about. You'll notice that the hole inside that insert is square because its just a plain 8-way but that same insert on the original Tron stick has the restrictive diamond shaped hole. I just popped the nylon insert out of that metal setting (part# 96-4100-00) and replaced it with the Tron nylon insert and wala my control problems were over. I never considered changing that little red one that sits just above the round actuator. I would try putting that one onto my Happ stick too but the Happ stick doesn't seem to need it + I am going to make another upper insert and put that original tron stick back together for my next cabinet. My Happ stick does work perfect now using just the upper restrictor but I'll bet the original Tron stick will feel even more authentic since it has the old school leaf switches unlike my Happ stick (micro switches ) I'm glad you found those old pictures again cuz I didn't even realize that the little red plate acts as a restrictor as well   Now I totally understand this oddball 8-way/ 4-way wannabe Tron joystick !
S.M.

[OSCAR]

Hmm, I wondered what the upper one did!  On the stick I had, the lower red restrictor seemed to be doing all the work and keeping the diagonal contact down to a minimum.  The shaft would contact that red restrictor before coming into contact with the upper one.  Then again, perhaps the stick I had was just so beat up that the upper restrictor was worn out.  Judging by the pics of this Tron stick, that could certainly be the case!  

[2slk]

Spidermonkey, Oscar, I found a thread from earlier this summer where there was some discussion on this very subject. There was talk of communicating with HAPP controls (spidermonkey I think) to see if they could supply a TRON style restrictor with the stick. I never saw talk of any definite answer form HAPP so I decided to drop them an email. This is the answer that I got:

"Well..........actually we are not planning to make a 4-way plate. We have practically no call for them, and it would add a LOT to the JS cost if we have to do a small run. There are tooling and other expenses to consider. The urethane bumper has to be molded in a custom tool. We would have to change that and the plate at the bottom. The JS is designed such that the bottom and top of the shaft both hit a bumper at the same time to spread the force. People like to drag the games around by the JS, so we have to make them strong."

 I guess that is what the upper one was for. More for protecting the actual hardware than for game control.

[spidermonkey]

I just looked at the bottom of my Happ trigger stick and I think I have enough room to mount that little red restrictor plate but I'm not sure that its really worth it for me. The stick works absolutely perfect on the light cycle stage with just the upper bumper/restrictor installed.  Don't think I'll be dragging my cabinet around by the joystick so there's probably no need to try to attatch the lower plate. Happs should already have the mold for the upper 4-way restrictor/bumper laying around since they bought out Midway a couple of years ago. However they are right in saying that they would have to change the bottom of the stick since it was redesigned when they switched from leaf switches to microswitches. I know I could rig up the bottom to accept the lower restrictor plate but I'm sure that they would redesign the bottom again to make it fullproof. I don't think they want to be bothered with the idea. I e-mailed them quite a few months ago and they never even replied.

[The Man]

Anyone know where I can get the bottom restrictor plate?

And while I'm askin, anyone know where I can get a straight shaft?  I'm not sure what my joystick was originally for, but it's bent forward about a 1/2 inch to 1 inch from the base.

Thanks in advance!
TM

[1UP]

Anyone know where I can get the bottom restrictor plate?

And while I'm askin, anyone know where I can get a straight shaft?  I'm not sure what my joystick was originally for, but it's bent forward about a 1/2 inch to 1 inch from the base.

Thanks in advance!
TM

The sticks are made to be mounted on an angled CP (about 15 degrees is common, most CPs are angled to some degree) so once mounted, they should be pretty much straight up.

[The Man]

Anyone know where I can get the bottom restrictor plate?

And while I'm askin, anyone know where I can get a straight shaft?  I'm not sure what my joystick was originally for, but it's bent forward about a 1/2 inch to 1 inch from the base.

Thanks in advance!
TM

The sticks are made to be mounted on an angled CP (about 15 degrees is common, most CPs are angled to some degree) so once mounted, they should be pretty much straight up.

True, but not this much... I've downloaded the scematics for Tron and the shaft is straight.   Would be interesting to find what game this joystick was from.

[spidermonkey]

I doubt you'll find that part by itself (maybe ebay) I ended up buying a whole tron control panel and just transferred the needed parts onto my Happ trigger stick. Obviously you don't need a whole cp but you might find a beat up tron joystick for cheap if you're just looking for the restrictors and not the costly blue handles. If you see a stick on ebay MAKE SURE its a stick from a Tron machine. Its the only one that has the parts you need. The sticks for games like Xenophobe or Gorf look identical but they do not have any restrictors in them. If you see the upper restrictor then buy that. Believe me it will solve your problem. The small one may work by itself as well.
    If its a Tron style stick you're talking about then the shaft is supposed to be bent forward. Thats the way its made. Once you attatch the handle shells it will no longer look bent but the whole stick IS supposed to tilt forward. This is normal.  Good luck on your search for parts. May want to check with Bob Roberts. He has lots of oddball stuff laying around.

[2slk]

I have to thank all you guys for your help. It's much appreciated.

 After considering all the angles, I've decided that in order for me to be satisfied with this project, I'll definitely have to get my hands on an original panel. My search is on.

  The question still remains is how do I interface the original panel with an I-PAC/OPTI-PAC. Would it be just like hooking up say, a HAPP stick and an OSCAR spinner (which from what I have read seems very straight-foreword) or is there more to it?

 Looking at pics of the original panel, I can see that it has connectors (they kind of look like PC power supply connectors). Assuming that I'll have to disconnect these, are the wires there ready to connect to an encoder as is or will I have to do some sort of hack? May seem like a dumb-dumb question but hey, I'm a newbie! Thanks in advance!!

[eightbit]

You'll either have to cut the plugs off or purchase the corresponding plugs. It should be just as easy to wire to an Ipac/Optipac as it would be if you built it from peices.

[OSCAR]

The question still remains is how do I interface the original panel with an I-PAC/OPTI-PAC. Would it be just like hooking up say, a HAPP stick and an OSCAR spinner (which from what I have read seems very straight-foreword) or is there more to it?

 Looking at pics of the original panel, I can see that it has connectors (they kind of look like PC power supply connectors). Assuming that I'll have to disconnect these, are the wires there ready to connect to an encoder as is or will I have to do some sort of hack? May seem like a dumb-dumb question but hey, I'm a newbie! Thanks in advance!!

The joystick is pretty straightforward, just connect the leaf switches to an I-PAC.

The optic board on the spinner may be a little tricky if you aren't familiar with how they work.  And for some reason, Midway made the Tron encoder incredibly complex!  Check it out (note this isn't my spinner, it's the one that's on eBay right now.)




I actually am in the process of refurb'ing a Tron spinner and I put my own optic board on it.  Not trying to sound like a cheap plug, but it works just as well as the original.  Well, aside from it won't connect to the Tron PCB now, but since you are using a PC & Opti-PAC, thats no big deal.  This way you also avoid hacking up the original board, which is nice in case you ever intend to connect the spinner back to the Tron boards.

Here is a pic of the spinner right now.  The bottom plate isn't installed because I am waiting on the nylon snap-in bushing for it, but other than that it's complete.  If you have any questions about it, just let me know.

[dag2000]

Cool!

I bought some stuff from you Oscar, including an optic board for just that purpose.  Were you able to use the original bolts on the spinner or did you have to drill anew hole to hold the optics in the correct location?

-Dave

[OSCAR]

I had to drill new holes in the bracket for the optic board.  Use 1/4" nylon spacers between the optic board and the bracket, and the "eyes" in the phototransistors line up perfect with the encoder wheel.  If you would like me to take pics of anything, just let me know.

[2slk]

OSCAR, Using your optical board, is it necessary to replace the encoder wheel as well or is the stock one OK?

[OSCAR]

My optic board works just fine with the original encoder wheel.  The only modifications I made to the spinner itself was to drill two new holes in the bracket to hold the optic board in place.

[Karman]

I have an original Tron spinner that I'm trying to hook up to an opti-pac.  I have no idea where to begin.  This sucker has 12 pins!  One group of two and one group of ten.  Does anyone know what the pinouts are?

[SirPoonga]

my guess is the group of two is power.  just a guess though.

[2slk]

Karman,

 Save yourself a bunch of trouble and order an optical board from OSCAR controls. It's 7$ well spent.