How to configure two separate CP into one computer?

[unix4hire]

I suck at woodworking.  I can't build squat.

So rather than try buiding a kick-ass 4P panel I've thought about building two completely independent portable 2P panels.  They could work independently on two separate computers.

But what about taking the two and making them work on one computer for 4P games?  How would this be done?  Since each would have its own encoder would I then be somehow hooking one panel into the encoder of the other?  Perhaps in some sort of master/slave configuration?  Anyone thought about doing this?  Chances are someone already has..

--E

[markrvp]

1 way to do this would be to use a keyboard encoder for 1 panel (Ipac, KeyWiz) and a gamepad encoder (GP-Wiz 32  GP-Wiz 49) for the other.

[unix4hire]

So would I then connect the gamepad-controlled CP into the ipac or into the computer?  I haven't investigated how a GP-wiz 49 connects to a machine; is it via USB or something?

[pmc]

Can a PC have two keyboards? Or maybe use one USB encoder and one PS/2 encoder?

Or use one encoder and just build a harness with a plug to extend the 2P wires to the 2nd CP whenever you want. I think you can hot-swap with the IPAC PS/2.

-pmc

[unix4hire]

somehow I'm picturing using (for example) a KE72 on the master CP and pre-wiring a harness to allow the 2nd CP to connect via one cable, such as a 50pin SCSI or soemthing.  But then I wouldn't be able to use the 2nd CP by itself without having its own encoder?  eh

[markrvp]

So would I then connect the gamepad-controlled CP into the ipac or into the computer?

[markrvp]

somehow I'm picturing using (for example) a KE72 on the master CP and pre-wiring a harness to allow the 2nd CP to connect via one cable, such as a 50pin SCSI or soemthing.

[markrvp]

Can a PC have two keyboards? Or maybe use one USB encoder and one PS/2 encoder?

Or use one encoder and just build a harness with a plug to extend the 2P wires to the 2nd CP whenever you want. I think you can hot-swap with the IPAC PS/2.

-pmc

Yes, a computer can have multiple keyboards connected at the same time.  You can have ps2 & USB or simply multiple USB.  The issue you have is that each keyboard is still sending the same keystrokes to the computer.  Quite simply, pressing A on keyboard 1 is the same thing as pressing A on keyboard 2.  Obviously 2 players could not both use the directional arrows on separate keyboards, because the keystrokes appear the same to the computer.  In MAME, you cannot map controls to keyboard 1, keyboard 2, etc. whereas you can map controls to Joystick 1, Joystick 2, etc.  What this means when using multiple keyboard encoders is that you would have to reprogram one of the encoders to send different keyboard strokes than the factory defaults and then map the controls in MAME accordingly.

For reference, an Ipac 4 actually appears to the computer as 2 separate keyboards, but every one of the 56 inputs represents a different key on a keyboard.  You could get the same effect with two Ipac2s where you remap the keyboard commands for the second encoder. 

[SirPoonga]

I'd go the cheap route and hack some usb game pads.

[pmc]

Yes, a computer can have multiple keyboards connected at the same time.  You can have ps2 & USB or simply multiple USB.  The issue you have is that each keyboard is still sending the same keystrokes to the computer.  Quite simply, pressing A on keyboard 1 is the same thing as pressing A on keyboard 2.  Obviously 2 players could not both use the directional arrows on separate keyboards, because the keystrokes appear the same to the computer.  In MAME, you cannot map controls to keyboard 1, keyboard 2, etc. whereas you can map controls to Joystick 1, Joystick 2, etc.  What this means when using multiple keyboard encoders is that you would have to reprogram one of the encoders to send different keyboard strokes than the factory defaults and then map the controls in MAME accordingly.

Ah. I was asking more because I wasn't certain if Windows would be able to handle something like 2 simultaneous USB keyboards. Since it can, then you could simply use one keyboard encoder for P1/P2 and another for P3/P4. It does indeed sound like the keymapping would be a ---smurfette--- because you'd want P3/P4 to look like P1/P2 when used independently but P3/P4 when used with the other CP.

I'm not sure I'd want to get into this.

-pmc

[Crazy Cooter]

The more I think about what you are doing, the more I think you would be better off using two GP-Wiz 32 gamepad encoders.

[markrvp]

The USB addressing 1 2 3 4 will guarantee that the #1 board will always appear as Joystick 1 no matter what order it is plugged in.  If you had two #2 boards, they would both work, but the computer will randomly assign them as joystick #1 & #2.

[Crazy Cooter]

Ahhh.

So the #1 board is always #1.  The other numbers can be anything.  Wouldn't there only be a need for two board types then?  A dedicated #1 and a "floating" #?

[markrvp]

That should be right.  If I were ordering 2 at the same time I would just get them addressed as #1 & #2.

I've got a GP-Wiz 32 #1 and a GP-Wiz 49 #1 and that is an issue.  At the time, I thought I would never use them simultaneously, but I do use them both in some configurations.  I wish I had ordered the GP-Wiz 49 as a #2.

[Crazy Cooter]

I mean even on Randy's end.  If a #2, a #3 and a #4 function identically, why even offer the #3 and #4?

[SteveJ34]

I mean even on Randy's end.  If a #2, a #3 and a #4 function identically, why even offer the #3 and #4?

Likely based on the reasoning this thread was started....so you could have 4 single player control panels that could be combined/all hooked up at the same time to play simultaneously.

[unix4hire]

Thanks for the ideas.  I guess i'll have to lay it out and see if/how it will work.

what I was thinking would be the best is a simple 2P panel using 49ways with the rotary+other hardware (can't remember the item!) for the best overall use of the 49 ways; plus a trackball, spinner, topfire joystick.  This all on one CP.  The 2nd CP would just have basic 8ways with 7 buttons each +trackball and be able to run by itself on a machine.  But the ultimate goal is to be able to hook both separate panels up to one machine and function as a 4P panel.  I'm sure you know what I mean.

So since I don't see the Gpwiz-32 for sale anymore I assume you mean using keywiz max v1.5?  and on the panel with the 49ways this encoder wouldn't suffice would it?  I need to go re-read that post about using the 49ways.
---E

[markrvp]

Thanks for the ideas.

[Tiger-Heli]

Sounds like MarkRVP has you covered. . .

There is also an issue where you will have to map controls for player two to use two inputs.

[Tiger-Heli]

For reference, an Ipac 4 actually appears to the computer as 2 separate keyboards, but every one of the 56 inputs represents a different key on a keyboard.

[markrvp]

For reference, an Ipac 4 actually appears to the computer as 2 separate keyboards, but every one of the 56 inputs represents a different key on a keyboard.

[Tiger-Heli]

I think I'm right in saying that it appears as two keyboards.

[NoOne=NBA=]

You HAVE to put two GP-49's into the main CP, if you're going to use two 49-ways in it, so that part is kind of dictated by the design.
Where I would differ with some of the previous suggestions is that I would build an interface BOX for the second controller, using either a KeyWiz, an I-pac, or a GP-Wiz.

What I'm thinking here is to have the actual wires from the 2nd CP terminate in a 25/36/50-pin connector that could plug directly into a corresponding jack on the first CP, and use the interface inside that CP for 4-p operation.
The two GP-49's give you more than enough extra inputs to piggy-back the second controller onto the first without having any of the reconfiguration issues inherent in the multiple interface scenarios above.

When you want to use the 2nd CP as a standalone, you would just plug the cord into a box that has a Key-Wiz, I-pac, or GP-Wiz inside, and then connect the PS/2 or USB cable coming out of that interface box to whatever computer you like.

This is basically the configuration I am currently using on a bunch of my "test" CPs, although I am using an AKI, SJC, and an Oscar Mouse Hack while doing it.
If you are swapping interfaces around, you will probably have reconfiguration issues.
If the interfaces stay connected, and just the controllers swap in/out, you will not have those problems.

[Tiger-Heli]

Where I would differ with some of the previous suggestions is that I would build an interface BOX for the second controller, using either a KeyWiz, an I-pac, or a GP-Wiz.

I disagree for what he wants to do, but it depends -

If it were an arcade cab and he wanted to plug in an occasional panel for 4P games, then okay.

He wants to be able to use both panels on separate computers and combine them for 4P games.

Your suggestion would be simpler (software wise), if he wants to have the 49-Ways and play 4Player games on PC1 only and use the GP-Wiz Panel on PC2 only.

Mark and my suggestions are cleaner (people are used to seeing a USB hub that the CP plugs into, not a D-sub 36 connector) and better if he wants to use the 49-Way Panel on any computer (anywhere) and the GP-Wiz panel on either of his machines (once he sets the software up.

Mark's solution of two GP-Wiz49's and two GPWiz32's would basically allow either or both panels to be used alone or together on any PC, basically "out of the box".

[Crazy Cooter]

So with Marks solution, it would be seen as multiple HID's in the system panel and there would be no interference between the panels?  I didn't know you could use multiple encoders like that.

I understand the joypad stuff because it's joy1, joy2 depending on FIFO (or hardcoded as in #1).

The rest is soooo above my head  .

[Tiger-Heli]

So with Marks solution, it would be seen as multiple HID's in the system panel and there would be no interference between the panels?

[NoOne=NBA=]

He wants to be able to use both panels on separate computers and combine them for 4P games.

I don't think you understood what I was saying.

The only functional difference between our solutions is that mine has the one GP-Wiz contained in a box that is external to BOTH CPs.
The GP-49s are in the 1st CP, just like your plan.

That allows both CPs to do stand-alone, just like your plan.
It also allows piggy-backing, and will allow for future expansion should it be desired down the road.
If the 2nd CP can piggy-back into the 1st, the GP interface box could be used on a 3rd CP to drive a 4-way classic CP, a Space Duel CP, etc...

[Tiger-Heli]

I don't think you understood what I was saying.

I understood . . .

That allows both CPs to do stand-alone, just like your plan.
It also allows piggy-backing, and will allow for future expansion should it be desired down the road.
If the 2nd CP can piggy-back into the 1st, the GP interface box could be used on a 3rd CP to drive a 4-way classic CP, a Space Duel CP, etc...

I hadn't considered the future expansion possibilities.  You're idea is more cost-effective, but when it comes right down to it, I'd probably buy additional GP-Wiz's for the 4-way classic CP, Space Duel CP, etc., for basically no other reason than I prefer a cord from the CP into a USB port, rather than a HD cable into an Interface box.  This would then allow all 4 panels to be used separately or together for true Frankenpaneldom!

[NoOne=NBA=]

This would then allow all 4 panels to be used separately or together for true Frankenpaneldom!

That is an absolute nightmare from a software reconfiguration standpoint.

As it stands, if I plug in my analog pedals (Logitech hack), and then my Star Wars Yoke (AKI), the Pedals register as Joy1, and the yoke as Joy2.
If I plug in the yoke 1st, it registers as Joy1, and the pedals end up as Joy3, due to the AKI containing two joystick connections.
This can be overcome to some extent by connecting things in a set order, but still shows up from time to time on me.
Throwing the SJC into the mix just complicates matters.

[Crazy Cooter]

It's pretty tough to explain, I took a stab at it here:

[Kremmit]

It does indeed sound like the keymapping would be a ---smurf--- because you'd want P3/P4 to look like P1/P2 when used independently but P3/P4 when used with the other CP.

Does the Auto-Censor really turn ---smurfette--- into smurf?  Because that's offensive to Smurfs.

[Tiger-Heli]

This would then allow all 4 panels to be used separately or together for true Frankenpaneldom!

That is an absolute nightmare from a software reconfiguration standpoint.

As it stands, if I plug in my analog pedals (Logitech hack), and then my Star Wars Yoke (AKI), the Pedals register as Joy1, and the yoke as Joy2.
If I plug in the yoke 1st, it registers as Joy1, and the pedals end up as Joy3, due to the AKI containing two joystick connections.
This can be overcome to some extent by connecting things in a set order, but still shows up from time to time on me.
Throwing the SJC into the mix just complicates matters.

Odd - that's not how it was explained to me:

Assuming the AKI and Logitech hack use different devices ID's (and I would think they must) - then if you INSTALL the AKI first, it becomes Joysticks 1 and 2.  If you INSTALL the Mouse Hack second, it becomes Joystick 3 (with the AKI still plugged in).

If you don't UNINSTALL anything, but just remove both devices and plug in the mouse hack it should be joystick 1, but if you plug the AKI back in, it the AKI should again be 1 and 2 and the mouse hack should drop down to joystick 3.

At least that's how it was explained to me.

Hopefully - urebelscum will comment on this. . .

BTW, I'm really not trying to argue with you about how your actual hardware works, but if your information is accurate, then I need to revise ALL of my webpages about this.

[NoOne=NBA=]

It may work that way, and I'm just not investigating in well enough
I'll have to study it a little more closely, and see.

As it stands, my biggest problems are:
1) The pedals swap ID numbers when used with a 270 wheel, and a 360 wheel.
2) The inputs reset P-1/B-1 to "Left CTRL or Mouse 1" if no Joystick is connected.

[markrvp]

That's the problem I'm having with interchangeable panels.  I may just replace the keyboard encoders with GP-Wizes and then I would always have a "joystick" plugged in.

[Tiger-Heli]

That's the problem I'm having with interchangeable panels.

[markrvp]

Actually, my problem is a little different.  As long as the game has joystick enabled then the defaults will always come back up.  However, when I have admin buttons mapped to Joystick 1 buttons 17-26 for example, that mapping is trashed when close MAME, unplug the GP-Wiz 49 and then plug in an Ipac and relaunch MAME.  When I plug back in the GP-Wiz 49, those maps are gone.

For example, I have mapped P1 insert coin to:

Coin 1 = 5 OR Joystick 1 Button 16


When swap panels to Ipac and then back to GP-Wiz 49 I would see this in MAME:

Coin 1 = 5 OR

Notice that the map to the GP-Wiz controls is simply missing.

[NoOne=NBA=]

I'll have to see if I can pin down exactly what's happening, when/where/how, when I get a chance.

I haven't had time/inclination to properly research it all because it's my test rig.