total newbie woodworking question

[Mani]

Greetings,

First, please excuse my cluelessness, being a software guy I'm totally inexperienced with working with my hands.

I have a CP that is too thick for my joysticks, as in the sticks come up too short. Now I've seen CP's where a square was perfectly "pushed into" the wood where the joystick mounting base would fit into, so that the sticks come up higher.

I've often heard people call this process "routing", but to me it seems more often than not routing has to do with cutting grooves into wood for things such as t-molding. Are these the same thing? Can a cheap router with a special bit accomplish this task? If so, how is it done, and what kind of bit is needed?


Thanks,
-Mani

[rampy]

You would generally use a router... The reason to use a router (besides its the "right" tool for the job) is that you can controll the depth of what it routes out... (hence the clean/even squares you see --  although i imagine you'd need either a steady hand or guides/clamps to get the square right)

I'm not sure about the bit...

I've heard of at least one person (oscar?) who used a chisel in a pinch...  that would require more craftsmanship on your part though IMHO =)  (and consdieration to the type of wood you are using, too)

If you find a "cheap" router let everyone know (guess it depends on what your definition of cheap is)... I'm sure you'll be fine with a black and decker/craftsman or whatever ...  

good luck (maybe a more router seasoned professional can bop in with more detail)

rampy

[eightbit]

A router can remove wood to a very specific depth very accurately. You also don't need the square that you cut out to be tight to the joystick. Because it won't show, you can oversize it to make sure it will fit. You could chisel it out but then you need to make sure your consistant so that the joystick will sit flat in the portion that you removed.

What type of joystick are you using? If you using one of the ones designed for a metal panel its a little harder since you probably will want to route from the top down and you'd need to be a little more accurate doing it that way. Also check your joystick may have spacers available to extend the shaft just by moving a couple c-clips.

[JustMichael]

In this thread I suggested using a hammer and a chisel.  Oscar tried it on a scrap of MDF just for kicks and got a better result than doing it freehand with a router.  Below is the picture he linked to:

[StingMe]

I've often heard people call this process "routing", but to me it seems more often than not routing has to do with cutting grooves into wood for things such as t-molding. Are these the same thing? Can a cheap router with a special bit accomplish this task? If so, how is it done, and what kind of bit is needed?

Routers are VERY versitile tools and what they can do all depends on the bits you use. You'll want to get a plunge router ($50-100 US) and a plunge cutting straight bit to remove the material for the joysticks. Contact MLCS Woodworking and tell 'em what you want to do - they are very friendly and helpful to woodworking newbies Their bits are also very reasonably priced and of good quality, in my own experience.

Good Luck!

[Dave_K.]

If you find a "cheap" router let everyone know (guess it depends on what your definition of cheap is)... I'm sure you'll be fine with a black and decker/craftsman or whatever ...  

I bought this drill guide from sears ($26) for drilling straight holes in my CP (with adjustable depth).   I imagine it would work fine for routing (although I haven't tried doing that with it yet).  You can also mount it under your workbench (has mounting holes) with the drill coming up through a hole in the bench for a table router/sander/whatever.  Pretty nifty.

http://www.sears.com/sr/product/summary/productsummary.jsp?BV_SessionID=@@@@0044194555.1042830948@@@@&BV_EngineID=ccdjadchfkmfkiecehgcemgdffmdflg.0&vertical=TOOL&bidsite=&pid=00967173000

Mine doesn't look like the one in the picture.  The latest ones have posts which can angle up to 45 degrees.  I was surprised how sturdy it is (compared to the more expesive one at Home Depot which is made of plastic).  This one is all steel/aluminum.

[Mani]

Gentlemen,

Thanks for all the informative posts!

As for the chiseling option: I am extremely intimidated.

I think I will purchase a router tonight. I'll probably be using it more since I'm planning one building a cabinet from scratch one day.

How does the actual routing process work? Do you start from the joystick hole, set a depth, and work your way out? What happens if you don't have a hole to start with?

Cheers,
-Mani

[eightbit]

In this thread I suggested using a hammer and a chisel.  Oscar tried it on a scrap of MDF just for kicks and got a better result than doing it freehand with a router.  

Hmmm, my understanding was that Mani was asking how to make it thinner, not how to make a hole. I'd still do a hole with the router but I would set up a template for the router to ride against. Basically clamp boards down in a square for the base of the router to ride against. Chiseling out 1/4" evenly is going to be challenging.

You'll want to get a plunge router ($50-100 US) and a plunge cutting straight bit to remove the material for the joysticks.

Plunge router is not necessary, though they are very nice. You can plunge with a fixed router. Also make light passes don't try to take a 1/2" off all at once, work up to that depth.

How does the actual routing process work? Do you start from the joystick hole, set a depth, and work your way out? What happens if you don't have a hole to start with?

You can start from the joystick hole or with a plunge router you can plunge down or with a fixed router you can tip it into the cut to start.

MR SAFETY ALERT!!! *PLEASE REMEMBER*
A router is a high speed cutting tool. Always make sure your work is firmly clamped down and you have a good grip on the router. Don't take off to much at a time and always feed into the direction that the bit is cutting. I would recomend either reading a book or finding a web site on the basics of using a  router before using one. They are one of the most versatile tools in the shop as they can perform the task of most any tool with the proper setup.

[StingMe]

How does the actual routing process work? Do you start from the joystick hole, set a depth, and work your way out? What happens if you don't have a hole to start with?

That's where the "plunge" in plunge router comes into play...you do not need a starter hole. You set the depth "stop" on the router first, turn the router on, and then plunge the bit into the wood. You then move the router around to remove the material (making sure to move the right way - see our routeer instructions for details). The "stop" will keep your cutting depth unform do you have a nice even surface to mount the joystick. If you are not comfortable doing this freehand you can always use a straightedge guide clamped to your CP.

One alternative to mounting the joystick this way is to cut a hole all the way through the CP for the joystick and then mount the joystick on a metal plate (OSCAR sells these). If you then want to cover these plates with artwork and/or Lexan/plexi you can use a router to remove about 1/8" or so from the top of the CP so that the pates are flush (this is the way I did it). Make sense?

Again, good luck!

[darkmanx]

..or.. you could just make a thinner CP with stronger wood. I have a CP made up of 3/4" MDF because its what i had, but i have decided to use something thinner and stronger in its place. the original will make a great template however.

[SirPoonga]

First, a router is just a rotory tool.  It's a powerful motor with a spinning bit, like a drill.  Goto www.craftman.com and search for router.

There are different bits.  There are bits to make grooves, like dovetail grooves to interlock sections of wood.  There are carving bits, that do nothing but route wood way, like for the joysticks.   It's a bit, you set the depth of the bit and it will chip out the wood to that depth.

You can use a router to make straight lines if you have a straightedge to guide the router.  My dad has one for his router, made making my cabient much easier.  I also have a dremel which is a low powered handheld router.  Goto www.dremel.com. I just used that to round corners and such.  It's not powerful enough to route out large areas or do alot of cutting.  If you look at my cabinet I no tmolding.  I just rounded the edges of the cabinet.

i like the pic JM posted, but as mentioned that's freehand router.  Because it spinns at some hefty torque it is hard to pull it straight on your own.  I made perfect squares using a straightedge to guide the router.

BTW, MDF is perfect for someone who hasn;t done much woodworking.  It's essentially a board madde from very fine sawdust and glue.  kinda like plywood, but even finer material.  It makes it really easy to cut.    because it is fine material it is more dense than plywood therefore heavier.  It's pretty strong too.  There is jsut some don't, like plywood, that you don't do.  one, don't screw into the ends, it will split the wood.  second, it will soak up water.  So at least two coats of primer are needed to seal it so humidity isn't a large factor.

[BASSOFeeSH]

Is there some sort of guide used to route the edges for T-molding?

[SNAAAKE]

i use hammer and chiset too.
Use ply wood if you are gonna be doin this because then its really easy .

you could take out 2(or 3) layers of plywood from the square(where you mount joystick) and you have everything nice and clean.
but if its mdf or particle board then...err...i am not sure .

Hammer+chiset should work better then a router(guessing because i never tried using router for this kind of problem)

[eightbit]

Is there some sort of guide used to route the edges for T-molding?

A slot cutting bit generally has its own bearing as a guide to set the depth of the slot. You adjust the height of the router to center the groove in the edge of the board.

[Xphile]

you'll want a straight bit like this:



nice straight sides and perfect flat bottom...can't get that with a chisel..:-)

Mark the finished size of the recess you want with a pencil on the back of your panel, then measure the distance from the centre of the router bit to the outer edge of the router base plate (should be about 2 3/4" ). draw another pencil line that distance (the 2 3/4" or so that we just measured:-)  around the first square you drew.

Using a brad nailer (and a size of brads that won't poke through the front of your panel:-), tack 4 pieces of 1.5" or 2"  MDF to the bottom of your control panel lined up to match the bigger sqare you drew..

now you have a perfect guide to start routing..the corners will be rounded (dime sized radius or so) you can chisel it square, or just  make the sqaure a little bigger than the joystick..

 as others have said, don't take it all off in one pass, do 2 or 3 passes, (depending on the amount you want to take out) or the router can get jumpy:-)

good luck..

[BASSOFeeSH]

Is there some sort of guide used to route the edges for T-molding?

A slot cutting bit generally has its own bearing as a guide to set the depth of the slot. You adjust the height of the router to center the groove in the edge of the board.

I meant to keep it centered, not for the depth.

[Xphile]

the below image shows the general idea, although the slot cutter pictured is much larger than we would use..



moving the router base plate up or down adjusts the centering of the slot...when it's centered correctly on your scrap wood, you lock the base plate in place with the locking nut..
(then you just tip the cab onto it's side and wiz the router around the edges)...

or am I totally missing your question?

[Mani]

Xphile,

Those animations are awesome!

Thanks everyone for the posts. Keep the suggestions coming, this is turning out to be a very informative thread.

-Mani

[MrBond]

This thread helped answer some of my questions too  

[Darkstalker]

If you are trying to cut out the space for the joystick, keep in mind you can drill the hole for the shaft of the joystick first, and use that for your starter hole for a fixed router.  That saves you from having to buy a plunging router.

Although a chisel will work, if you set up a jig you'll get a straighter edge, a universal depth cut, and you'll finish a lot faster using a router.  Here's a good starter guide:

http://www.am-wood.com/tools/router.html