Help needed for MONTROUS sound!

[Brax]

I'd like to add a really nice sound system to my cabinet. Much more than computer speakers.

I suspect that you would use car amps and speakers. How do you interface them to the sound card? How do you power them?

Is there any write ups on this already? I haven't been able to find any yet.

[Silverwind]

doesn't neccesarily have to be car amps... you can buy home audio amplifiers also..

i don't have a wealth of information on home audio.. but why not buy a reciever?  You can probably pick up a decent one for a few hundred bucks.. maybe 5.1 or 6.1 with 100 watts per channel?

then just hook up some speakers.. have the line out on your sound card (or SPDIF output) go to the receiver and your all set..

how much are you looking to spend.. this will probably determine the likely setup

[Spectrum]

Thats one way to go about it.  As far as wiring it in you'd just need good amps that take RCA inputs.  Get a 2.5mm to RCA converter and hook it up.  For power, get an AC/DC inverter and wire that to the amp and your all set.  Check out the examples page.

Another option would be to use the 2.5mm to RCA converter and run it through an old stereo system wired into your cab.  Get some good speakers and you're all set.  Might be cheaper this way if you have to buy all the components.  If you have car audio stuff lying around however....

Robert

[OSCAR]

To interface to a sound card to a car amp,  you will need a stereo mini-plug to RCA adapter like this.



Car amps typically require a fair amount of current, and I would recommend a dedicated power supply for the amp.  I wouldn

[eightbit]

You can do the car amp thing but they make some killer speaker sets for PC's that sound great, have surround sound, with a decent subwoofer and can crank loud enough for your neighbors to get annoyed.

But if your looking for raw foundation rattling neighbors calling the cops kind of power then the car amp is probably the way to go. To me that much power is a waste. How often are you really going to turn it up that loud?

[OSCAR]

How often are you really going to turn it up that loud?

Probably never...  

But the speakers and amp I had laying around and didn't cost me a dime to put in my cabinet.  Decent car amps and speakers can easily be found for cheap, so it makes for a decent solution for anyone not wanting to shell out extra $$.

Either works just as well, depends on the particular situation I guess.

[JoeB]

Yes.. I got a couple of questions..

I actually am working on my arcade machine now, and I went out and purchased a 2nd hand Sony Amplifier.  It's a 2 channel car amp rated at 30W RMS / Channel (~60W Max per channel) and draws continously 12A at 12V.

My question(s) are as follows:

- Most power supplies today (for PC) are switching ATX power supplies. How do you trigger the PSU to turn on?
- The values rated below are probably max values.. (since PSU's are switching and not continuous) so I assume 15A ~= 10AMP continuous. no?
- Isn't the "safer" thing to do is to get a real AC/DC 12V power supply? (The type car stereo stores use to show off amps/head units) ?? The reason I say this is because a PC PSU gives 12V.. but a car doesn't give 12V.. it really gives more along the lines of 13.5V (and as much as 14+ volts when the car is running)

Now, if I recall,    POWER = CURRENT * VOLTAGE

Assuming Power is constant (e.g. 100W RMS) if voltage drops, current must go up to maintain the same power.  So if you use only 12V, an amp rated at ~10Amps will require more, and will be running that PSU much hotter..

Yes, a car amp will give you the effect you want, and give you a huge array of great speakers to select from.. but I think it's also the most expensive way.  Heck, after looking around, I've basically noticed that a dedicated Power supply (a 12V one) costs as much, if not more, than what I paid for the amp! SHEESH..

Maybe another alternative is to buy a really old home amp/stereo, hook it up to speakers, make sure it's in AUX mode, and just use the AMP part..

ARGGG.. can't decide..

[Silverwind]

Interesting Idea...

I have some 6.5 component speakers... (6.5" woofer and 3/4" silk twees)

i was going to put them into my car... but not sure if I'm going to or not.. They wouldn't be too hard to mount in the cab.. and probably would have some decent sound with an amplifier..

[BobA]

An older home receiver/amp is much cheaper then the car/amp/power supply combination.  I was just in the local hock shop and they were selling very nice home receiver/amp units for alot less then a car amp.  Since you are not worried about the tuner you can get a real deal if you don't go digital FM and go for an older unit.  $20 dollars would be a realistic price.  This compares with 45 for a lower power car amp and at least 45 for a PS to run it.

BobA

[OSCAR]

Yes.. I got a couple of questions..

- Most power supplies today (for PC) are switching ATX power supplies. How do you trigger the PSU to turn on?

Short Pin 14 to  15.

http://www.arcadecontrols.org/yabbse/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=4347

- The values rated below are probably max values.. (since PSU's are switching and not continuous) so I assume 15A ~= 10AMP continuous. no?

Yes.  I've set up a number of cabs like this without problems.  I've yet to see an amp blow a fuse for any other reason other than a short.

- Isn't the "safer" thing to do is to get a real AC/DC 12V power supply? (The type car stereo stores use to show off amps/head units) ?? The reason I say this is because a PC PSU gives 12V.. but a car doesn't give 12V.. it really gives more along the lines of 13.5V (and as much as 14+ volts when the car is running)

Possibly.  However a AC/DC 15A power supply is typically more expensive than a PC power supply, but it varies depending on your source.  Again, I've had very good results with this.  I wouldn't post it if I hadn't.

Now, if I recall,    POWER = CURRENT * VOLTAGE

yes.

Assuming Power is constant (e.g. 100W RMS) if voltage drops, current must go up to maintain the same power.  So if you use only 12V, an amp rated at ~10Amps will require more, and will be running that PSU much hotter..

Yes, a car amp will give you the effect you want, and give you a huge array of great speakers to select from.. but I think it's also the most expensive way.  Heck, after looking around, I've basically noticed that a dedicated Power supply (a 12V one) costs as much, if not more, than what I paid for the amp! SHEESH..

Maybe another alternative is to buy a really old home amp/stereo, hook it up to speakers, make sure it's in AUX mode, and just use the AMP part..

Certainly a home amp is another alternative.  Many car amps overrate their draw requirements.  I've yet to have one blow a fuse due to overdraw.  The only time I've ever had to replace a fuse is because of a short.

But as I mentioned before, car amps & speakers can easily be found for very little $$.  I chose this method for my cab because I had all the necessary components laying around and it didn't cost a dime to add it.

[Warborg]

I just put a Cambridge Soundworks 4.1 system in my Showcase, got it from a friend for $20, works good enough for me...  

[kalkin]

Tried with a couple of car speakers but they interfered with my tv. Didn't want to go through the hassle with shielding them so I also went with the Cambridge soundworks computer speakers. Not too expensive and good enough sound, plus a separate volume control on some models.

[Silverwind]

How about mixing the two?

Could you power a set of car speakers using a home reciever? I don't see why not.. as long as the impedence is correct for the specified receiver.. (don't want to overload it)

most car speakers are are 4ohm.... i'm not sure but are home speakers usually rigged for 8ohm?

[Warborg]

Tried with a couple of car speakers but they interfered with my tv. Didn't want to go through the hassle with shielding them so I also went with the Cambridge soundworks computer speakers. Not too expensive and good enough sound, plus a separate volume control on some models.

Yeah, I have the volume control for my Soundworks speakers mounted in my coindoor for easy access...  

[RandyT]

Tried with a couple of car speakers but they interfered with my tv.

This is definitely something to take into consideration, especially if you want speakers over the CRT like in most cabinets.  Typically, high power speakers have huge magnets and will take quite a bit of effort and expense to keep them from turning your CRT all sorts of undesireable colors.  To give you an idea, some car 6x9's I have seen have magnets the size of a coffee can, whereas the original crappy speaker in my Defender cab had one the size of a quarter .

CRT's also don't like a lot of vibration, so you might want to re-think putting a 15" sub in the bottom of the cab if that's what you had in mind .  Inside the CRT there is something called a shadow mask which is essentially a very fine screen mesh suspended or held in place with equally fine wires.  If this mask moves, so does your picture, and if it moves too often, the wires holding it in place can loosen or break.  I have about a half dozen 20" computer monitors like this, and they aren't a pretty sight.  

RandyT

[Silverwind]

Yes that's very true.... car audio speakers typically are not shielded....

some home speakers are.. and i haven't seen many PC speakers that aren't.

I do have two sets of cambridge soundworks speakers on my current PC, both with the volume knob.  I may just transfer both of those to my cab and use those.  Two sets gets plenty loud even on low levels.. hhehe.

OR I could have one set inside the cab.. and one set outside (maybe mounted on the wall behind the cab) for some 4.2 surround sound.. (like I use for PC games)

[rampy]

How about mixing the two?

Could you power a set of car speakers using a home reciever? I don't see why not.. as long as the impedence is correct for the specified receiver.. (don't want to overload it)

most car speakers are are 4ohm.... i'm not sure but are home speakers usually rigged for 8ohm?

Most are 8ohm (from what I remember) you could run two 4ohm car speakers in series (or use a load resistor) but I can't remember clearly the effect on volume/wattage/output.  It's been a while since I mucked around with audio electronics...

*shrug* YMMV

rampy

[Brax]

I think I'm considering to go with a high end 3 pc computer sound system now. It will be a whole lot easier to implement. I also don't have the room to keep unshielded speakers away from my monitor. I have a cocktail table. It sounds like I can get plenty of power out of a good set of computer speakers. I may have to put an input on the outside of the cabinet for the subwoofer if it causes interferance. (I have room to fit a sub in there now and it may or may not cause problems) Its an option anyways. Thanks for all the advice. I think I'll keep this info handy though. When I do a stand up cabinet, I'd love to have a ground shaking sound system.

[MinerAl]

I'm using my cocktail cabinet as a juke box as well, so I have a little A/B/C audio switch (1 input pair of RCAs, 3 possible outputs) that switches the audio-out from the sound card between the nice PC speakers inside the cabinet, and a 1/8" stereo headphone plug on the outside of the cabinet (some people sleep at 3 AM instead of playing Galaga... weird).  

When I get my arcade room all set up I'll be able to hook up my receiver/amplifier to the "C" channel, but for now The "C" button makes a great mute button.

[Brax]

I have one more question....

If I wanted to shield an unshielded speaker how would I do it? Just a piece of metal over it, or is there more to it?

I'm thinking about the sub now...... even in computer speaker systems they're generally not shielded. The Cambridge isn't shielded right?

[ashardin]

www.partsexpress.com has what you need.  Basically, it is a magnet that goes on the back of the speaker, effectively cancelling the magnetic force that the speaker has.  In effect, shielding it.

I do believe that there is some efficiency loss to the driver when you do this, but don't quote me on that.  Your best bet, though, is to just get some shielded drivers.

Sorry I got on this thread late, but if you want to still go with the car audio idea, I can help you out.  I have three 170 watt amps, hooked up to 2 5 1/4's on the upper part of the cabinet, 2 6 1/2's by the kick plate, and two 10" subs on the outside of the cabinet.  This is all powered by a 50 amp rack mount Power Supply and helped by a 1 farad capacitor.  The sound is controlled by a flush mount EQ under my control panel with all sound controls and master volume.

The question was asked why would you need all of this sound.  No really for games I admit, but my cab doubles as a mp3 jukebox, THAT is when you use the sound.  Many games do sound good with the extra power though (Shock Troopers comes to mind).

I've built 3 cabinets now, 2 with car audio and one with amplified speakers and subs, and I tell you, I really missed the depth of sound on the one with the amplified speakers.

[JoeB]

ashardin:

Have you noticed any interference from your 5.25 speakers on the monitors??

I got a 60WRMS 2 channel amp (30W RMS per speaker) and not sure what speakers I want to put into the cabinet above the 25" arcade video monitor...  (I guess 6x9's might interfere too much).

[elfman12]

Tried with a couple of car speakers but they interfered with my tv. Didn't want to go through the hassle with shielding them so I also went with the Cambridge soundworks computer speakers. Not too expensive and good enough sound, plus a separate volume control on some models.

I had the same problem... if they are going anywhere near the display, they'll probably cause problems unless they are shielded. If mounted elsewhere, they may not, but then they are away from the desired listening area while playing games.

[Silverwind]

I have one more question....

If I wanted to shield an unshielded speaker how would I do it? Just a piece of metal over it, or is there more to it?

I'm thinking about the sub now...... even in computer speaker systems they're generally not shielded. The Cambridge isn't shielded right?

The cambridge soundworks being computer speakers.. are shielded..  they are expected to be placed by computer equipment/monitors by nature and are sheilded as such

[BASSOFeeSH]

Even the sub?

[Silverwind]

No I don't think the sub is... but you can put that on the bottom of the cab... it won't be up there with the rest..  

[Dr. J]

    I used the Car amp/speaker setup that's been pretty much explained above.  I'm using an AC to DC power converter for power.  I haven't had any problems with the magnets interferring with the computer at all.  (They're about 1 foot away).  I'll post a quick pic, and you can check out more details at my website here:  Dr. J's Arcade

[ashardin]

Zero problems with magnetic interference on mine.  That may be because my monitor is in an old Taito cab, and is at about a 45 degree angle pointed down, and the speakers are mounted above, right behind the marquee.

BTW I'm using a 21" SVGA monitor with the case removed, but there still is a metal case around the tube that may help to shield.

[Brax]

I have one more question....

If I wanted to shield an unshielded speaker how would I do it? Just a piece of metal over it, or is there more to it?

I'm thinking about the sub now...... even in computer speaker systems they're generally not shielded. The Cambridge isn't shielded right?

The cambridge soundworks being computer speakers.. are shielded..  they are expected to be placed by computer equipment/monitors by nature and are sheilded as such

I was asking about the SUB. They generally are NOT shielded. Whether they are intended for use as computer speakers or not. But I was asking if anyone was familiar with those particular speakers in the off chance they were.

[Brax]

No I don't think the sub is... but you can put that on the bottom of the cab... it won't be up there with the rest..  

As I've said... I have a cocktail cabinet. The bottom of the cabinet IS beside the monitor.

I'll look into magnets to shield or I'll place a sub input on the outside of the cabinet if it causes problems.

[Silverwind]

No I don't think the sub is... but you can put that on the bottom of the cab... it won't be up there with the rest..  

As I've said... I have a cocktail cabinet. The bottom of the cabinet IS beside the monitor.

I'll look into magnets to shield or I'll place a sub input on the outside of the cabinet if it causes problems.

The sub on the cambridge is 6.5" I believe.. not too large..  you may not have any problems at all in a cocktail cab if you put it in one of the corners...  but unless you already have a set it might be an expensive experiement eheh..

If you want I can try to put one of the subs right on top of my monitor.. and see what happens

[OSCAR]

No I don't think the sub is... but you can put that on the bottom of the cab... it won't be up there with the rest..  

As I've said... I have a cocktail cabinet. The bottom of the cabinet IS beside the monitor.

I'll look into magnets to shield or I'll place a sub input on the outside of the cabinet if it causes problems.

I posted links to bucking magnets in this thread:  http://www.arcadecontrols.org/yabbse/index.php?board=18;action=display;threadid=3150.