do i neeeeeeeeeeed to screw?

[Ldsfunaz]

the consensus i have been getting from you experts is that:

the glue (gorilla in this case) is what holds the studs/panels together, and the screws are just there to keep the panels tight while the glue is drying...

If I'm using 32 inch quick clamps, do i even need to screw. 

I also have a air compressor/finishing nail gun(2 1/2" max), If i don't need to screw, maybe i could just pop each stud a few times, although i don't see this being any support...



background information
2x3 studding in all the corners
3/4" MDF
UAII

thanks alot
mike

[Xiaou2]

 depends on how strong you want it to be.

 Nails work..  but if you ever decide to take it appart,  you will most likly destroy
the wood in the process.   

 Glue alone.. can work good..  but very strong forces may tear it appart.  (a few moves may cause problems)

 Coarse thread wood Screws - are easy to remove.. and form a Very strong and tight bond.   I prefer these to any other method period.

  (Fine thread will not work well with mdf.  strips, and no tight grip)

 If its a small project like a speaker  box...  or a mini control panel.. hot glue will be fine.  Ive made boxes you can litterally jump on with it.  But again, screws are much better Imop.

 
 

[MajorHavoc]

Ditto.  I'd go with screws.  Consider it cheap insurance. 
Good Luck
Mike

[Mr. Bubblehead]

Screws are necessary unless you want the cabinet to eventually fall apart.  Game cabs take a lot of abuse.

[M3talhead]

......get screwed

[Lilwolf]

I also believe they are a requirement to get the wood glue to hold well.

[AmericanDemon]

Dude, I am gonna be that guy.   

Yeah we all need to screw.  Its natures way.  Its the adhesive that holds us together, but the screws hold us to its ready.   

Ok now onto my actual opinions.  If you have the clamps needed to ensure a good bond between pieces of wood and you have enough of them to allow time to cure properly, then you shouldn't HAVE to screw them together.  Personally I dont have large enough clamps so I have been planning to screw from the inside.

[nostrebor]

MonitorGuru has it right. I have built 3 cabinets so far, all with dado glue joints, and I would put them up to the test against screwed cabinets any day of the week.

 The woodworking community goes out of it's way to avoid fasteners by using good joining techniques. We cabinet builders can do the same, and have no holes to patch as a nice bonus.

[Crazy Cooter]

PacMan has no screws?  Never noticed, but it's funny because a Jungle King has no glue.  It uses a few stove bolts and some metal brackets.

Both types of cabinet are still around, so I guess it just depends on how well you think you can build it.  Will you be comfortble without using both screws & glue?

Personally, I have quite a bit of experience building stuff with wood, and I like to use both glue and a screw/nail/etc whenever possible.  Besides, how much are you going to spend on the wood, artwork & controls?  May as well spend another $2 to make sure it stays together while you move it in the house  .

[Mr. Bubblehead]

And studding up the inside is WAYYY overkill.

No kidding!!!! I never understood why people did that, other than lack of building experience.  All that does is add unnecessary weight.  I use wood blocks in a few places on my cabs, and if there is a shelf that will support any weight (like a monitor) I will install one stud under it, just to keep it from eventually sagging.

[MameJunkie]

Use it to be safe.

[Stingray]

I always take the "belt and suspenders" approach.

-S

[Ldsfunaz]

thanks guys for all your help.

[Xiaou2]

 Yes, but galaga and pacman type cabs are actualy very light.  They use plywood. 
Mdf is 10 times as heavy...   It also is not as strong to resist extreme abuses.. as it will chip and crack.   Not sure if the person is using mdf or not.

 Ohh,  actaully you can sometimes crack MDF  when screwing it,  unless you drill pilot holes first.   

 

[Mark70]

Glueing and Screwing goes together like concrete and rebar. 

You can build a crappy little 3" thick slab for your lawn building with just concrete, but if you're putting a foundation under your house you'll be using rebar.  If you want to build a parking garage you'll be using a lot of rebar.

I actually look at the glue as a supplement to the screws.  The screws address any shear forces across the joint and the glue will assist the screw threads in resisting pullout force.

[Silverwind]

I used a nailgun with wood glue.  Also internally I used some L brackets with screws for additional support.  So far so good.

[Crazy Cooter]

but from what you guys are saying, is it totally useless to screw where the glue has already dried?

Mostly.  If you srew it after the glue is dry, it will crack the glue and then only be held by the screws.

[nostrebor]

Glueing and Screwing goes together like concrete and rebar. 

You can build a crappy little 3" thick slab for your lawn building with just concrete, but if you're putting a foundation under your house you'll be using rebar.  If you want to build a parking garage you'll be using a lot of rebar.

I actually look at the glue as a supplement to the screws.  The screws address any shear forces across the joint and the glue will assist the screw threads in resisting pullout force.

Speaking from experience in professional design you have this backwards. The screws supplement the glue. Years of testing have proven that glue has superior holding and shear strengths, when applied correctly, over mechanical fasteners. This is especially true in MDF, which has a proven history of poor performance in pullout/pullthrough of mechanical fasteners. I STRONGLY urge builders to always use glue with MDF as it was designed to specifically be attached with adhesive. If you want to supplement these connecting points with mechanical fasteners in MDF, always drill pilot holes first, and use the correct type of fasteners. This would be fasteners that do not have tapered shanks, and have coarse threads. DO NOT over tighten mechanical fasteners in MDF or you will fracture the MDF and cause real losses in holding strength.

My professional advice to the OP is use both. If you choose to use only one use adhesives.

On the parking garage comment... design will not only require a considerable amount of rebar, it will require either prestressing strands (Prestressed concrete construction) or post-tension reinforcing (Cast-in-place concrete construction) as well. Effective span is greatly increased in this way, and designers love to push these spans. This subject is close to me right now. My firm is on It's fourth garage this year.

[Mark70]

Speaking from experience in professional design you have this backwards. The screws supplement the glue. Years of testing have proven that glue has superior holding and shear strengths, when applied correctly, over mechanical fasteners. This is especially true in MDF, which has a proven history of poor performance in pullout/pullthrough of mechanical fasteners.

On the parking garage comment... design will not only require a considerable amount of rebar, it will require either prestressing strands (Prestressed concrete construction) or post-tension reinforcing (Cast-in-place concrete construction) as well. Effective span is greatly increased in this way, and designers love to push these spans. This subject is close to me right now. My firm is on It's fourth garage this year.

You're building SOME parking garages if you're prestessing.  Antyhow, lets not derail this fine gentleman's thread with our architectural jibber jabber.

Regardless of the semantics, we agree that you should be using both screws and glue.  I was using my "common sense" muscle in stating that the screws are addressing the shear forces, specifically because of their poor pullout strength in mdf.  I wouldn't be counting on a screw for pullout in MDF.  Glue may also be superior in shear to the screws as well simply due to the sheer (not shear) area of the connection.  Again, regardless, we agree that you should be using both screws and glue.

[prOk]

Use a good glue (wood or poly) and 1x1 blocking with air nails or staples..    Don't forget, glue only forms a surface bond.  MDF is like cardboard.. even though the first layer sticks well to the blocking, the first layer will easily peel away from the second.  You need some kind of physical bond to pull the two together tightly and hold.  Screws work too, but it's cheaper and easier to shoot nails/staples in if you have a compressor.

Even pac/mspac cabs did have blocking and small staples, but one more thing to remember is that they had the added reinforcement of the steel wings mounted to the monitor that helped hold the cab together all these years.   It wasn't all glue that did thejob

I've built at this point probably 50 arcade cabinets by  hand all following original models.  I always see people overdoing some things and under others..  2x4 frames are way too much, while some of the 1/4 inch thick cabs i've seen are way under..  Simple well cut pieces with a decent glue, small blocking and some staples will hold extremely well and not become heavy as a tank to deal with!

/brian

http://www.rgvac.com

[Ldsfunaz]

Well i have decided to glue and screw from the inside where i can.
but where i have joints that are just glued, and dried, im goign to leave them as is...

heres what i got so far..






thanks all

mike