Not sure if I WANT a career.

[ChadTower]

Sounds like you speak from experience!  Pretty subjective, tho.  How much is enough?

That sounds like a lotta work.  How about a dollar and a dream, baby!

I do speak from experience.  Though there are others in my workgroup who find the job very challenging, or who are at the limits of their skills, I find it absolute cake because I have a stronger technical background and experience base than they do.  And that takes into account being the technical resource of our group.

As for money, obviously not posting a number, but I make enough that I was able to buy a house in Eastern MA, we have two reliable cars, and we don't hurt for money.  My wife has always been home with the two kids so we can raise them properly.  This is NOT a cheap cost of living area... but with some basic lifestyle sacrifices, we do quite well.

It CAN be done, but Paige has put himself so far behind and disqualified a few options, that he's going to have a hard time with it.  Then again, if it were easy, he'd have already done it.

[Santoro]

Paige, two things.

Business is becoming more competetive every year, and therefore companies are becoming more and more efficient..

[ChadTower]

Yeah, but some people would look back and say that you spent your life managing machines that make rich people richer.  I feel like that in some ways about my career.  That is why I stepped back from it and put the focus on my family.  When I interviewed here my primary requirement was that I was coming here so that my career could support my family from now on, rather than having my family support my career.

I think that was the day I changed back from a career to a job.

[paigeoliver]

read the book "rich dad poor dad"

getting a career and working within the "rat race" is not a way to become wealthy. working harder is not the only way to make a living.

http://www.richdad.com/
 

I am on another forum based on finances, and they tore that book completely to shreds, it is a total fabrication. The "rich dad" did not exist, and his actions were completely illogical to those in the know.

[paigeoliver]

Well, they HAVE to have someone minding the counter, they can't ship that overseas. There is simply no way around staffing the counter overnight at a full service hotel.

Also.

I come from a lower class background. I am single. I cannot get student loans. I have a brief criminal record. I make no impression at interviews. I am 28.

I would have to focus my life COMPLETELY on "the rat race" for a decade just to get my foot in the door, and then I would be facing age discrimination for the entry level positions.

[ChadTower]

I come from a lower class background. I am single. I cannot get student loans. I have a brief criminal record. I make no impression at interviews. I am 28.

Every one of those is an excuse.  Even the sum of their detractions is not enough to prevent advancement.  What is preventing your advancement is the fact that you don't seem to want it very much.

I would have to focus my life COMPLETELY on "the rat race" for a decade just to get my foot in the door, and then I would be facing age discrimination for the entry level positions.

And your point is...?  That is the cost, you either want it or you do not want it.  You would not be facing age discrimination at 34, which would be the latest time at which you hit the entry level.  If you did it well you could hit them at 31 or 32.

[paigeoliver]

I come from a lower class background. I am single. I cannot get student loans. I have a brief criminal record. I make no impression at interviews. I am 28.

Every one of those is an excuse.  Even the sum of their detractions is not enough to prevent advancement.  What is preventing your advancement is the fact that you don't seem to want it very much.

I would have to focus my life COMPLETELY on "the rat race" for a decade just to get my foot in the door, and then I would be facing age discrimination for the entry level positions.

And your point is...?  That is the cost, you either want it or you do not want it.  You would not be facing age discrimination at 34, which would be the latest time at which you hit the entry level.  If you did it well you could hit them at 31 or 32.

34?

How in the world can a single person, who makes $11.35 an hour (too much to qualify for any student aid, unable to receive student loans due to past problems), ever get a degree in 5 years?  I couldn't even come up with the money for it in that period of time, much less complete the classes.

I would LIKE to have a better situation, but I sort of feel like it is just something doomed to failure.

[ChadTower]

34?

How in the world can a single person, who makes $11.35 an hour (too much to qualify for any student aid, unable to receive student loans due to past problems), ever get a degree in 5 years?

[Santoro]

Paige, I don't mean to say that your job will be shipped overseas, they will just look at the productivity an adjust the job so that you have to work harder for your money.

I have seen a lot of hotels that have the gift shop right next to the check-in counter.

[paigeoliver]

I went to a tech school briefly. It took me years to pay those 6 months off. I never learned a single thing, and I was miserable from the 30 hours of classes per week (combined with 40 hours of work, and then church on sunday). I knew every single thing they were teaching, and I was more knowledgable than my teacher was in one of the subjects).

I am legally required to work full time, otherwise I go to prison (still have a year and a half of that left).

I filled out the FAFSE last year under the pretense of going to community college, I didn't qualify for anything.

And from what I understand from reading the student loan stuff is that I am no longer eligible because of my previous ones.

I could pay for part time community college, after 4 years of that I would be 33 and have 2 years done. Then what? All nontraditional education costs an arm and a leg, it would take me 3 years of work to pay for each part time year afterwards.

[ChadTower]

Right... well, you're convinced.

You need to stop thinking about the things you cannot do and start searching for things you can do.  Until you do that you will never move forward.

[ChadTower]

I have an idea.  Most of your problems stem from your past problems with the law.  You're not sure what your options are, but you (at least say you) have a sincere wish to improve yourself and your career options.  Who could you ask for advice on this?  Who would know your exact situation and what your best options are?

Your PO would be that person.  I bet your PO would know exactly what you could do and may be able to guide you to specific places or connections his office has.  I would be surprised, as well, if he doesn't have some discretion about that full time or prison concept.  That is meant to keep you from being idle or supporting yourself illegally.  It is not meant to be a limiting factor in advancing your personal situation.  Maybe he can skew it a bit if you have proof that you are in school and succeeding.

[paigeoliver]

I don't have an officer anymore, I have an 800 number that I call and punch some buttons, and every once in a while it tells me I have to send a paycheck stub in. I can leave a message when I call in, my last message garnered a response 18 months later.

But, I only have 1 year and some odd months left of that, so that part of it isn't so limiting.

The limiting part is the fact that if I am disqualified OFFICIALLY from many many companies, fields and positions, and I am disqualified unofficially from many more. Remember, I make no impression in interviews, never have. I have gotten all my jobs from nepotism, or from employers who simply hire everyone they interview. I have never gotten a job from a "real" interview. So I am not going to be the guy who they "have to have" so much that it overcomes my record.

That means I can either lie about it, and hope no one checks (I really don't want to do that), or I can pursue something like being a diesel mechanic or something else skilled, but blue collar, in which case it won't matter.

I could probably get myself one of those worthless 2 year degrees fairly easily, but the one that counts would be a massive challenge.


One other issue, I also sort of feel that if I throw myself completely into chasing a degree for the next decade that I will sabotage any chance I ever had at marrying a nice youngish girl. Not that I seem to have much chance now. 

[ChadTower]

Erm, where do you think is more likely you're going to find that youngish girl?  Sitting in a trailer or in college classes? 

A 2 year degree is not worthless if you use it as a stepping stone to a 4 year degree.  The 2 year degree is only worthless if you stop there.

Your answers are so damn obvious and you have no desire to see them.  You are a crappy interview.  So change that.

[paigeoliver]

Erm, where do you think is more likely you're going to find that youngish girl?  Sitting in a trailer or in college classes? 

A 2 year degree is not worthless if you use it as a stepping stone to a 4 year degree.  The 2 year degree is only worthless if you stop there.

Your answers are so damn obvious and you have no desire to see them.  You are a crappy interview.  So change that.

Actually I wouldn't expect to meet anyone doing either one. I HAVE gone to college in the past (only have a few credits, but I have gone). Went to Community College for most of a semester without ever even having the occasion to speak to a single person. Tech school at night was slightly better in that aspect, I did talk to people, BUT EVERYONE was a strung out full-time worker/full time student, and there wasn't an unattached girl in any of my classes.

Almost all my friends met their wives in college, but they all met them in the socializing of dorm life, and not during lectures. That is one thing I can say FOR CERTAIN that is closed off to me now.

This hasn't been entirely fruitless, it has persuaded me to at least give the old "disco with books" another shot.

[ChadTower]

Most of a semester of Community College?  Been to Tech School, apparently didn't finish?

Sounds to me like you have a larger root cause problem to address, bro.  You need to figure out why you never start the things you finish.  That will always haunt you and be a huge obstacle.

[Stingray]

Almost all my friends met their wives in college, but they all met them in the socializing of dorm life, and not during lectures. That is one thing I can say FOR CERTAIN that is closed off to me now.

Why do you say that? I never lived on campus, but I went to plenty of dorm parties and met (and dated) a lot of hotties as a result. All you have to do is make  some friends who do live in the dorm. 28 is not[/i] that much older than the typical college student, despite the fact that you seem to have convinced yourself that you're a fossil. I'm 35, and I'm certain that if I started college classes today, I could be at a dorm party this weekend.

-S

[ChadTower]

I went to some parties at my brother's college when I was in my late 20s... I felt really out of place.  I agree with Paige on that one.  The 35 year old in the room may be accepted by the guys, but unless you're hot, the girls want little to do with you.

[Scott84]

Its never too late to go to school. Life sucks sometimes and you gotta suck it up and make change. Go to school all day and work all night. Thats what my life is like currently. Thankfully they gave us laptops at school and i can surf all day while learning stuff.

The only way to be sucessful in life is view your life as successful. If Paige is having the time of his life doing what he is doing then leave him be. Paige is more then knowedlgable that he can go out and do things and get a degree, get a better job. Make a difference.

All we need to do is motivate!

[Stingray]

I went to some parties at my brother's college when I was in my late 20s... I felt really out of place.  I agree with Paige on that one.  The 35 year old in the room may be accepted by the guys, but unless you're hot, the girls want little to do with you.

Phew. It's a damn good thing I'm so frackin' hot then.

-S

[ChadTower]

. If Paige is having the time of his life doing what he is doing then leave him be. Paige is more then knowedlgable that he can go out and do things and get a degree, get a better job. Make a difference. 

Did you even read this thread?  He came to us.

[Santoro]

Yeah, but some people would look back and say that you spent your life managing machines that make rich people richer.

Everything is relative, my friend.

[ChadTower]

You could also say that if you were not doing that, someone else would be... therefore, you could be doing something more personally rewarding without impacting what you currently do in the least.

IMO, way too many people spend their lives fighting to get up the corporate ladder without realizing at some point to step back and live for a while along the way.  I was going that direction myself when I pulled the plug and decided to spend max time with my kids.

[Santoro]

Don't get me wrong, I agree with you.  I have climbed the ladder rapidly and am concerned about the fact that my quality of life seems to get worse with each rung I climb. 

I live live in a similar circumstance to you... Nice suburb of a major US city, three kids, two cars, stay-at-home-wife.  My problem is that I am getting paid a career rate, stepping back to a 'job' would mean I have to pick up and move to a cheaper area.  We are torn as to whether that is worth the disruption to the kids.

[ChadTower]

What would happen if you moved down the ladder a rung to a job for which you are overqualified, yet still paid a livable wage?

[Santoro]

'Livable' is the key word there.  Livable where? It woud be tough to take any cut and stay where I am. 

[ChadTower]

That does make it more challenging. 

[paigeoliver]

Most of a semester of Community College?  Been to Tech School, apparently didn't finish?

Sounds to me like you have a larger root cause problem to address, bro.  You need to figure out why you never start the things you finish.  That will always haunt you and be a huge obstacle.

Community College. I was working a full time job AND a part time job in an attempt to actually pay for myy classes. Did 40 hours at one job, 30 at another, and had a few classes in my few off hours. I burned out quickly.

Tech School. Sanford Brown does "quarters" not semesters, and you literally sit through 4 hours of class 6 days a week. I did a "half quarter" (an intro deal, 2 days a week for a rather short period), and then a full quarter. I got my schedule for my next "quarter", and I promptly left the school. I was $8000 in the hole for those classes, I had not learned a thing, and I was presented with another schedule of 24 hours per week of classes that would not teach me anything, had nothing to do with my supposed program of study, and would cost me another $6000. I simply refused to take on that kind of debt and stress in a program that had not taught me anything, and might never.


I am way too old, calmed down, and conservative to hang out in dorm rooms smoking pot and trying to chat up drunk girls fresh out of high school. Last year I went to my denomination's college age retreat, I was among the older people who went (there were perhaps a half dozen of us in the 24-27 age range). I found I simply could not relate to guys that age at all. Did fine with the girls though, I could talk to them just fine, and I spent most of the weekend with a couple of college freshman girls. But they seemed too young for me to actually get interested in.

[Scott84]

. If Paige is having the time of his life doing what he is doing then leave him be. Paige is more then knowedlgable that he can go out and do things and get a degree, get a better job. Make a difference.

[Stingray]

I am way too old, calmed down, and conservative to hang out in dorm rooms smoking pot and trying to chat up drunk girls fresh out of high school. Last year I went to my denomination's college age retreat, I was among the older people who went (there were perhaps a half dozen of us in the 24-27 age range). I found I simply could not relate to guys that age at all. Did fine with the girls though, I could talk to them just fine, and I spent most of the weekend with a couple of college freshman girls. But they seemed too young for me to actually get interested in.

Damn that whole "time difference" thing. Where's Bones when you really need him? I'm on pins and needles waiting for his response to this statement.

-S

[shmokes]

I never learned a single thing, and I was miserable from the 30 hours of classes per week (combined with 40 hours of work, and then church on sunday).

I love how you quit school because you never learned anything that you didn't already know, but continue going to sunday school.  Church is so dumb.  Believing in god or some kind of higher power, while there is little logical reason to do so, is fine if it gives you a sense of security.  But why waste one of the few days you get to yourself sitting there having someone tell you stuff that you've known your entire life?  At least with each new semester at the school you would finish with a subject and move on to another one.  Do you really think that god is so insecure that she sits up in heaven, omnipotent, omnicient, and yet fawns over our gushings and compliments about her?  Do you think that her confidence is so feeble that she will be sent into a rage if you don't sit for hours every week listening to someone tell you the same things that they told you last week (and every week for as long as you can remember)?  Rubbish.  We aren't made in god's image.  She's made in ours.  By that, I mean flawed.  She's a crazy, jealous ---smurfette---. 

Anyway, if you could stick with any given plan for more than a couple months maybe you'd actually have finished your introduction courses and moved on to the specialized, advanced courses where you could have started gaining some useful knowledge/skills.

[ChadTower]

IIRC, he said he teaches sunday school for kids, not sits in church and listens to mass all day.

[paigeoliver]

IIRC, he said he teaches sunday school for kids, not sits in church and listens to mass all day.

What I teach is children's church, which is where the kids go rather than being bored to death by adult sermons that they can't understand.

I teach the 3-5 age group, which is REALLY frustrating, it is near impossible to target a lesson at that wide of an age range (and it doesn't help that all the pre-done lessons they give me are aimed at second graders). If either the 3 or 5 year olds were gone it would really help me, but engaging both ages is tough.



I actually don't attend sunday school, my church doesn't currently seem to offer a class suited for me. The only adult class that isn't "couples", "seniors", "women", etc is taught by a very nice guy who gives an hour long monologue that would go over the head of most ministers. 

I would actually prefer to teach sunday school to that same age group, but someone else has done that class for years.

And schmokes, thank you so much for your well thought out and insightful critique of Christianity.

Truthfully I am not very involved in my church anymore. Not like I used to be. I used to go to church 3 times a week (plus sunday school), and I hosted a bible study (that makes 4), and there was the church softball team (that makes 5), plus there were frequent other events.

Now I just go on sunday morning, and teach my class once a month (also on sunday morning). My beliefs aren't any different, but before a lot of it was social, and that part is mostly gone (the whole 20s scene sort of vanished at my church in the last couple years, all the single people got married or moved, we stopped having activities, etc).

[Bones]

Damn that whole "time difference" thing. Where's Bones when you really need him? I'm on pins and needles waiting for his response to this statement.
-S

I missed my chance. The moment has now passed.

[hyiu]

Paige... after reading your msgs, I think you have a motivation problem..
before things even start, you already claimed the outcome... FAIL...
that's no good...

I have a master degree, however, I still have not break the 6 figure yet.... (which is bad for me...)
among my friend... there's one.. who doesn't even have a college degree, he's well into 6 figures... what does he do ?? car salesman, chinese kitchen.

EDUCATION is always good. not just technical stuff... I mean in general.. even history, physics, .... all knowledge is good...

but if you have problem with financial aid... don't need to break your back to go for a 4 yr college...

how about sales ?? a lot of sales positions doesn't require a degree...

also... how about something like real estate broker license ?? those doesn't take much $$, and you can get it in about 2 months of courses...

you said you never make an impression at interview...
let me tell you this...
AT WORK, EVERY NIGHT, YOU HAVE 7 HOURS TO PRACTICE TO THE MIRROR !!!!!
How about that ?? go surf web...
learn the posture, learn what to say, learn what to ask, learn how to dress, learn what to bring, learn what to prepare...
give yourself A MONTH !!!

go to 1 of your friend and practice afterwards...
yes, it sounded dumb and stupid, but it works...
keep working on it until you make an impression at interview...

what I'm saying here is...
you see a problem and you stopped there saying because of your past, it won't work....
that's not good...
you need to apply BYOAC mind to the problem... OK !?!?!

you want to play ikari warrior, find a way to mount the mouse to the joystick to rotate !!!!
 

if you're already very happy about yourself now, and feel comfortable about your future, then by all means do nothing...
but if you want a better life (not corporate ladder stuffs... not millionare...) just have more $$ in your pocket in general...
just more steady life in general....
then instead of wasting 7 hrs each night playing video game, watching movie, surfing web..... spend 1/2 the time to improve yourself !!!!!

read some reviews, buy a few books on sales technique....
(ULTIMATELY, EVERYTHING IS SALES.... either you sell a service, or you sell good, or you sell yourself...)

in your case, with your past, office work might not be the best for you... (hey... I really donno here...)
but if white collar is no good.. try blue collar !!! fixing car is always good... fixing house is always good.... plumbing / electric ... all those are decent jobs !!....

you can wire a cab, how about a house ?? you said you have a past... then work cheap for 6 months.. give them some advantage so that they let you step into the industry... let you prove yourself...

and FORGET about getting girls for now... even if you meet one, do you think you can afford her ?? treat her to decent places, movies, and all that ?? Come on... not that all girls are materialistic... but if you simply cannot provide, its a turn off...

when your life is settled... on track... then girls will come....
although I don't know you in person, my guess is.. girl should be low in your priority list for now... even if you put it up there, you won't score much anyway....  (by that, I don't mean to diss you.... ok ??  )

ok.... I guess I speak too much.....

[GameOver]

Holy crap!  You guys were busy on this one today...let's see we got

Chad    14 posts
Santoro  5 posts
Singray   3 posts
Paige      8 posts

All between 7:30am ET thru 2:25 ET

from our distinguished group of senior (software?) engineer, global desktop support lead, and propane gas rep (taste the meat, not the heat!) telling a hotel night auditor how to get it together.  Sounds like you guys need to practice whatcha preach!  I'm gonna report the whole lot of ya to each of your respective HR depts (where the hot chicks are). 

I expected better from you, Stingray.  You're the official slacker yet only managed 3 posts.  This will reflect badly in your review.   

Paige, don't listen to these guys.  They're trouble.  'Go read Rich Dad, Poor Dad'!

[Kremmit]

There's going to be a huge constriction boom a couple hours downriver from you.  You're pretty handy, I imagine you could handle framing or plumbing.  Oh, and electricians make bank.  Know anything about 'lectricity? 

Smart construction laborers often transition into their own small construction companies, once they've learned the ins & outs of the biz.  And nobody will care about your record.  My mother in law just built a house, the general contractor is a convicted felon- and for something worse than fraud, too.  He did time in Pelican Bay for whatever it was.  He's living high on the hog, got a hot wife, two kids, a nice new two-story home on 5 acres, a nice truck (contractors all have nice homes & trucks), horses, dirtbikes, a boat, etc.

Of course, they won't have internet on the job site.  No Sugar Corn Pops, either.

[Scott84]

There's going to be a huge constriction boom a couple hours downriver from you.

[paigeoliver]

I briefly left my hotel job to be involved in a small construction company owned by friends.
The boom is slowing, and they are now losing money on contracts they made 3 and 4 years ago when gas was $1.25 a gallon.

[Bones]

Maybe you could join Amway.