Trackball speed

[Homebrew]

Does anyone know how i can go about increasing the trackball speed  other than trackball sensitivity in the analog controls and in mouse speed in windows?  The problem i'm having is with centipede.  My brother pointed out that the trackball doesn't move your player as fast as it did in the arcade.  I tried maxing out the x and y axis sensitivity but that didn't seem to make any difference.  I also increased the speed in windows but to no avail.  Has anyone else had this problem.  I'm not a complete mame newbie, but i'm still discovering the common stuff so if this is a common question, my apologies.  Anyway, what are the all the ways i can increase my trackball speed?  Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.  By the way, i'm using a happ 3" trackball.  

[Homebrew]

Here's another problem i just discovered.  On World Class Bowling i repeatedly get fouls for no reason.   Normally when it occurs, the next ball is fouled as well.  It doesn't happen every time, but very frequent.  Its quite annoying, again any help is appreciated.

-Kevin

[Xiaou2]

 Did you also increase the
 " Key/Joy speed "
 
 'I think'  The sensatvity is the amount of times per second to check the trackball for movment... while the Keyspeed is how much it will move the character...  or bascially - each sensed movment will be equal to a greated number of movments via mames programming.

[Smack]

Here's a reply regarding the world class bowling thing. (Someone asked the same question there too. Here's my thread.)

http://www.mame.net/cgi-bin/wwwthreads/showpost.pl?Board=mamegeneral&Number=97802&page=0&view=expanded&mode=threaded&sb=7#Post97802

[Homebrew]

I've tried that too, but games still don't seem quite right.  In Golden tee it takes 3 swings minimum just to get within putting range.  I'm sure theres some setting i'm missing but just not sure what it is.  If someone could walk me through the steps they used to hook up there trackball i'd greatly appreciate it.  I'm running a happ 3" trackball with hagstrom ME4 encoder.  Thanx in advance,

-Kevin

[Homebrew]

Ok, in golden tee i figured out the problem but have no clue how to fix it.  The problem is theres a delay between spinning the trackball forward and having the character hit the ball.  This causes the trackball to lose momentum during the pause thus resulting in a shorter drive.  This problem is non-existant when using the joystick to play.  The problem seems to be somewhere in the trackball interface or setup.  I really wish i knew where the problem was.  All trackball games will be affected and this makes the trackball zero fun to use.  I really hope i didn't waste $120+ to have a trackball that doesn't work worth a darn.  

-Kevin

[OSCAR]

You wouldn't happen to be using WinXP with the ME4, would you?

I've found that under XP, the ME4 has a slight hesitation and jerkiness when used with controls  that have a low tooth count (i.e, 24 teeth for trackballs).  I've contacted Hagstrom about this, but they said it was an XP issue on how XP handles PS/2 mice....

Here's how to improve the performance of the ME4 under XP (may also help with PS/2 mouse hacks, too!):

Go into the Device Manager and click on the PS/2 compatible mouse (ME4).  Go into the properties menu and select the Advanced Settings tab.  Change the Sample Rate from the default 100 reports/sec to 200 reports/sec.  After you reboot, your trackball should be smoother and more responsive.

Hope that helps.  

[u_rebelscum]

Did you also increase the
 " Key/Joy speed "
 
 'I think'  The sensitivity is the amount of times per second to check the trackball for movment...

Not quite.  Sensitivity is used a couple different ways, but it is basically used in the form "value * sensitivity / 100", value being somehow related to an input value (mouse, joystick, ect).

while the Keyspeed is how much it will move the character...  or bascially - each sensed movment will be equal to a greated number of movments via mames programming.

This is much closer.  The way you discribe is how keyspeed is designed to modify digital inputs to analog values, but keyspeed also effects mouse inputs, but not as drasitically.

I agree you should try increasing the "key/joy speed" and see if this helps.  It might not be enough though.

If it's not, you can try replacing the happ encoder wheels with the oscar model 3 encode wheel.  I've never tried it, but some others have.  He's not open until the 6th of Jan, though.  ( http://oscarcontrols.com/ )

[Homebrew]

Oscar, yes i am using it under windows xp.   I'm definetly gonna try what you suggested.  If that doesn't do it then an encoder wheel swap may be in my future.  I may even switch to windows 2000.  Worst comes to worst i may buy an optipac.  While spending extra money is a concern, i'm just as concerned with having a properly working setup.  I'll play around with mentioned suggestions and see what happens.  Thanx to all for the suggestions, your insight is much appreciated.  

-Kevin

[eightbit]

I don't think switching the interface to an Opti-pac is going to fix your problem. I'm not trying to talk you out of purchasing a product that supports a great vendor of arcade parts but you already have an interface. I don't think changing that will fix your problem.

Now if you can swap your encoder wheels for some wheels with more slots you might get the performance your looking for. I know my imperial trackball needs some better encoder wheels. I've played with making some and I've seen improvement but can't make the wheels perfect enough to get a complete rotation of the encoder wheel without issues.

[Homebrew]

Thanx for the info eightit.  Switching to an optipac would have been a last resort, but i believe i'll pass on that now. I tried what Oscar suggested, but it only helped slightly.  I think next i'll try switching to windows 2000 and see if that helps.  If not i'll try *gasp* windows 98.  I'm gonna go ahead and order the encoder wheels from oscar controls when they open back up, hopefully that will help.  If anyone who has done the swap would chime in, i'd greatly appreciate some info on the difficulty of swapping the encoder wheels.  I assume some modificatoin to the case will be required to accomodate the larger wheels.  Also does anyone know what size the encoder wheels are in the happ high-ball trackball.  I see they have a different part number from the regular 3" trackball so i assume they are probably a different size.  Lastly what about the centipede problem?  Is this a common problem in mame or does the problem lye elsewhere?  I really appreciate all the info so far, i'm just trying to absorb as much knowledge on the subject as possible.  Thanx all.

-Kevin

[1UP]

I don't think that an Optipac or Win 2000 will help things any.  I have the exact same problem with Centipede.  I am using the Optipac as my interface, and a hacked Kidsball under Win 2000 Pro.  Seems the problem may be related to the tooth count on the encoder after all--my Kidsball encoder wheels had to be modified so they have about 18 teeth, in order for the optics to read them.  

Funny thing is, other games work fine.  Missile Command works just like the arcade, with good response and accuracy.  But no matter how fast you crank the ball in Centipede, it not only fails to help, but seems to make no difference at all!  Maybe there's something specifically in the Centipede driver that limits the trackball speed?  

[Homebrew]

Well i'll try the oscar wheel swap and see if that makes any difference.  If it does i may look into having custom wheels made somewhere based on the difference it makes and what i'm looking for.  Thanx for the insight 1up.  Just hearing what performance others are getting from their trackballs helps me to determine what i should be expecting.  I don't have much experience with mame and arcade controls so i'm trying to take in what i can.  If anyone else wants to share their experience with trackballs and their performance i'd appreciate it.  Thanx

-Kevin

[eightbit]

I'm gonna go ahead and order the encoder wheels from oscar controls when they open back up, hopefully that will help.  If anyone who has done the swap would chime in, i'd greatly appreciate some info on the difficulty of swapping the encoder wheels.

Hmmm, I thought I was told with a couple of washers I could swap the wheels right into my 3" imperial. Its not that they are bigger its that the slots or smaller and closer together. Maybe someone else could confirm that. I was also told that while it will make a difference it might not be enough. I think my wheels have 24 teeth and Oscar's have 36 teeth.

The encoder wheels I was trying to make had 60 slots. I could definately see the improvement but couldn't make the wheel consistant enough. There is software out there that can make the encoder wheels with the diameter that you specify with the number of slots you specify. You then print them on transparency paper.

[OSCAR]

Hmmm, I thought I was told with a couple of washers I could swap the wheels right into my 3" imperial. Its not that they are bigger its that the slots or smaller and closer together. Maybe someone else could confirm that. I was also told that while it will make a difference it might not be enough. I think my wheels have 24 teeth and Oscar's have 36 teeth.

The encoder wheels I was trying to make had 60 slots. I could definately see the improvement but couldn't make the wheel consistant enough. There is software out there that can make the encoder wheels with the diameter that you specify with the number of slots you specify. You then print them on transparency paper.

The washers are only necessary on the Imperial trackballs.  See this thread for more info, http://www.arcadecontrols.org/yabbse/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=3760

[Homebrew]

anyone know how many teeth or slots are on an atari trackball encoder wheel?  I see on bob roberts's site that he has atari encoder wheels, just wondering if they have more teeth/slots than the model 3's.  I'm looking to get the best performance i can.  Is there possibly a better trackball out there to look into?  One that comes with better sized encoder wheels?  Any suggestions are appreciated.

-kevin

[eightbit]

The washers are only necessary on the Imperial trackballs.  See this thread for more info, http://www.arcadecontrols.org/yabbse/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=3760

Oscar thanks for replying. I don't understand why it reverses the axis's. If it wasn't for that I would have given it a try I can't turn my trackball 180 without remaking the control panel. When I put the 60 tooth wheels on it that I made they didn't reverse the axis.

[Homebrew]

Anyone have any idea where i could possilbly get custom made encoder wheels.  My first thought would be a machine shop, but thats pretty expensive when your just getting a couple pieces made.  I've tried googling encoder wheels to see what i could find, but haven't found much.  Anyone ever priced something of this size at a machine shop?

-Kevin