Newbie wondering about a do it all joystick

[agfisher]

Heya everyone,

     Is there a joystick out there that will do 4-way/8-way but also do 4-way in the diagonals for Q-bert type games? I'm trying to get it all in there but don't want a Frankenpanel. Any help would be great! Thanks for the time.

Adam
Boston, MA

[GGKoul]

no

[Kremmit]

Yes.

You've got 3 options:

A 49-way joystick controlled by a GP-Wiz49 can be electronically restricted to 4 & 8-way, plus 4-way diagonal.  Also 2-way vertical, 2-way horizontal, and 2 49-way modes.  Electronic restriction means that the joystick will only send (in the case of 4-way mode) up, down, right, and left- but will not send a diagonal.  Electronic restriction will NOT physically keep the joystick from being pushed in those directions, it just won't send that data to the computer.

Options 2 and 3 are the T-Stick+ or the OmniStik Prodigy.  Both can be switched from 4-way to 8-way operation, and these are physically restricted- eg, the stick CAN'T be moved into the diagonals when in 4-way mode.  For Q-Bert and Congo Bongo, use these sticks in 8-way mode, and map the MAME inputs to read the diagonals and to IGNORE the cardinal directions, and the game plays and feels like it ought.

[Timoe]

I got beat.

Visit www.groovygamegear.com

Look into the Happ 49-way joystick with the GPWiz49 encoder.

The whole deal will run you like $75 for just one joystick.

[RayB]

I'm trying to get it all in there but don't want a Frankenpanel.

Do what I'm doing... plan for more than one cabinet!

[TurboC--]

No but that's a good idea.  Although Q-bert is pretty much a niche thing to design a whole joystick around.  How about a 4/8 way switchable, and design the mounting system to be able to rotate 45 degrees?  Sounds like a project!

[elvis]

Do what I'm doing... plan for more than one cabinet!

What he said.  I'm looking at a dedicated 4-way cabinet as well as a dedicated dual-sticks (crazy climber, smash-tv, etc) cabinet later down the track.

(a) It looks great having more than one machine in your games room

(b) Beats having an *UGLY* franken-panel and

(c) It means more than one person can play something at a time.  Bit of a godsend if you have kids.

[Level42]

There may be yet another option, Suzo Inductives   Just got them in yesterday.
Like the 49's, these are electronicaly "switchable":
There's a potentiometer  and this also apparantly switches it between 4 and 8 ways (!?!?!?) This invites for a nice "hack": put the potentiometer under your CP and put a nice knob on it   Will report in full in seperate thread...

[agfisher]

Thanks for your replies. I'll start figuring out what I can do. Thanks again

Adam
Boston, MA

[RandyT]

A 49-way joystick controlled by a GP-Wiz49 can be electronically restricted to 4 & 8-way, plus 4-way diagonal.  Also 2-way vertical, 2-way horizontal, and 2 49-way modes.  Electronic restriction means that the joystick will only send (in the case of 4-way mode) up, down, right, and left- but will not send a diagonal.  Electronic restriction will NOT physically keep the joystick from being pushed in those directions, it just won't send that data to the computer.

Just want to clarify something for the uninitiated.  In 4-way DRS mode, the electronic restriction of the GP-Wiz49 does more than just limit output to the primary 4 directions.  It doesn't ignore diagonal movements of the stick, rather makes intelligent decisions about which of the 16 possible directions to output based on the joystick position and a number of other criterion.  It does this for all of the other DRS modes as well.

It's a small distinction, but an important one as limiting output to the primary directions is possible using NOT logic on a standard 8-way.  Of course this approach to electronic restriction does not give the desired effect, rather makes the problem worse.  IE. functionally just the opposite of what the GP-Wiz-49 does.

I know Kremmit knows all of this, I'm just adding to the posted info on one of my products.

RandyT

[Tiger-Heli]

It doesn't ignore diagonal movements of the stick, rather makes intelligent decisions about which of the 16 possible directions to output based on the joystick position and a number of other criterion.

Don't you mean 8 possible directions?  (Up, Up-Right, Right, Right-Down, Down, Down-Left, Left, Left-Up) (and in 4-way mode only the 4 primary ones, except the extreme diagonals), and Centered.

It's a small distinction, but an important one as limiting output to the primary directions is possible using NOT logic on a standard 8-way.  Of course this approach to electronic restriction does not give the desired effect, rather makes the problem worse.

In other words, MAME's 4-way predictor code, correct?

[RandyT]

It doesn't ignore diagonal movements of the stick, rather makes intelligent decisions about which of the 16 possible directions to output based on the joystick position and a number of other criterion.

Don't you mean 8 possible directions?  (Up, Up-Right, Right, Right-Down, Down, Down-Left, Left, Left-Up) (and in 4-way mode only the 4 primary ones, except the extreme diagonals), and Centered.

Actually, the DRS code carves the space into up to 16 possible areas.  This 16-way DRS mode may or may not be useful for much, but it is there. 

But yes, 99.9% of the time the normal 8-positions you described are the pool of possibilities that will be drawn from.

It's a small distinction, but an important one as limiting output to the primary directions is possible using NOT logic on a standard 8-way.  Of course this approach to electronic restriction does not give the desired effect, rather makes the problem worse.

In other words, MAME's 4-way predictor code, correct?

More like the logic circuit attempted by  someone a while back.  They discussed using actual logic chips that would only allow a "clean" primary direction to ever be passed on to the interface.  This had the effect of inhibiting any action that actuated more than one switch simultaneously.  Unfortunately, this only exacerbates the problem, instead of making it better.

MAME may be able to simulate this setup in software, but I wouldn't expect that anyone would want to.

RandyT

[Tiger-Heli]

Actually, the DRS code carves the space into up to 16 possible areas.  This 16-way DRS mode may or may not be useful for much, but it is there. 

Gotcha!

More like the logic circuit attempted by  someone a while back.  They discussed using actual logic chips that would only allow a "clean" primary direction to ever be passed on to the interface.  This had the effect of inhibiting any action that actuated more than one switch simultaneously.  Unfortunately, this only exacerbates the problem, instead of making it better.

Ah. . . IMS, that was Derrick Renaud (sp?), and that was what started the whole 4-way code, sticky-mode debate in MAME.

I always thought it odd that he went on to be responsible for most of the analog sound fixes in MAME, but looking back on it this way it doesn't seem so strange.

[Kremmit]

No but that's a good idea.  Although Q-bert is pretty much a niche thing to design a whole joystick around.  How about a 4/8 way switchable, and design the mounting system to be able to rotate 45 degrees?  Sounds like a project!

Not necessary.  A 4/8 way switchable like the Omnistick Prodigy or the T-Stick+ plays Qbert perfectly well when switched to 8-way mode, as long as you map the inputs in MAME correctly. 

Here's a link to the last time this discussion came up.

[rescue161]

I'm with Kremmit on this one.  I did the same thing and it works like a champ.

Just map Mame to do what you want to do.

Also on the stick I have when it's in 8-way mode stays in the corners. and when in 4-way stays on the sides.  Hard to explain, but the first stick I had did not do this.

I don't think with the 49 way stick that you'll get the Diag/corner "feel" that you'll get with Kremmit's and my setup.

[Tiger-Heli]

I'm with Kremmit on this one.  I did the same thing and it works like a champ.

Just map Mame to do what you want to do.

Also on the stick I have when it's in 8-way mode stays in the corners. and when in 4-way stays on the sides.  Hard to explain, but the first stick I had did not do this.

I don't think with the 49 way stick that you'll get the Diag/corner "feel" that you'll get with Kremmit's and my setup.

I agree with all comments.  The sides/corners thing is due to the physical restrictor.  See Oscars  images:
http://www.oscarcontrols.com/suzo500/4-8way.jpg
http://www.oscarcontrols.com/suzo500/suzo500_4way.jpg
http://www.oscarcontrols.com/suzo500/suzo500_8way.jpg
and comments and draft review in this thread:
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=3733.0

[CheffoJeffo]

no

Hey GGK ... that's what happens when you take time off the boards ... you miss the big developments.

Going to SB on Saturday ?

Cheers.

[Avery]

I'm trying to get it all in there but don't want a Frankenpanel.

You can always build a modular.