Reality check....

[Chris]

My DOS-based cabinet currently has an Athlon Thunderbird 800 MHz CPU with 256 MB of RAM.  This is more than enough for the classics that I play (although I miss Stun Runner); however, my daughter loves to play NBA Maximum Hangtime, King of Fighters, World Class Bowling, and other more recent games.  NBA Maximum Hangtime runs, but not at a great frame rate; the more recent King of Fighters games won't run at all.

So I'm ready to upgrade.  I just bought a new motherboard and an Athlon XP 2000+ CPU.  Even my regular PC only has an Athlon Thunderbird 1.2 GHz in it!  So I'm feeling a bit silly putting the more powerful processor in the game machine, although I have to admit that my regular PC is currently fast enough for everything I actually do with it....

So my question is: are there many games that run great with a 2 GHz processor that are unplayable at 1.2 GHz, or am I just putting too much power in this cabinet?

--Chris

[SirPoonga]

You might want to ask yourself another question, is DOS the right OS for such a modern machine?  DOS wasn't designed to handle what we now think of as alot of memory.

What are the frame rates you are getting at 800?  Are they close to full then a 1.2 will be fine.

[naomi+]

ye may want to upgrade the os...direct x support and such helps alot on the new KOF games your 800 should actually be fine...

[eightbit]

Mames being developed in Windows now. I've even seen claims where it actually runs better under Windows than in Dos. The big thing is Dos can't take advantage of more memory.

[Chris]

If I could solve the "power off issue, I'd consider moving to Windows... but the "graceful shutdown" issue is likely to be a problem with kids, plus I'd have to redesign the power system with relays and such to deal with Windows' soft power system.  I may put Windows in it eventually, but for now DOS is a better fit for my particular set-up.  However, when I eventually redesign my control panel, I'll probably do it in such a way that the trackball can be used as a mouse....

--Chris

 

[Tiger-Heli]

I heard Linux works well for MAME, although I couldn't tell you any more than that about it.

[eightbit]

If I could solve the "power off issue, I'd consider moving to Windows... but the "graceful shutdown" issue is likely to be a problem with kids, plus I'd have to redesign the power system with rbb elays and such to deal with Windows' soft power system.  I may put Windows in it eventually, but for now DOS is a better fit for my particular set-up.  However, when I eventually redesign my control panel, I'll probably do it in such a way that the trackball can be used as a mouse....

In my cab the t-ball is the mouse in Windows. I have the pc power button wired to a arcade button. If you press the button the pc powers up, because its XP if you press the button again it causes the PC to close open programs, shut down Windows, and turn the PC off. I have a seperate switch that controls the Marquee, speakers, and monitor. I do that so that I can leave the PC on with everything else off. The PC is connected to my network and I can update it from my other computers without being at it. I wired the coin door lights to the 12 volt on the PC so I can tell when the PC is on or off.

[Chris]

Well, the new motherboard is capable of powering up from the keyboard... as far as the trackball, though, none of the buttons on the CP are mapped as trackball buttons, and the trackball is mounted upside-dow, so I have to reverse the axes in MAME... i can't reverse the aces in Windows....

 A big part of the reason my cabinet was originally DOS was that I was using a discarded motherboard that wasn't stable in Windows but ran DOS fine...

[rampy]

Well, the new motherboard is capable of powering up from the keyboard... as far as the trackball, though, none of the buttons on the CP are mapped as trackball buttons, and the trackball is mounted upside-dow, so I have to reverse the axes in MAME... i can't reverse the aces in Windows....

 A big part of the reason my cabinet was originally DOS was that I was using a discarded motherboard that wasn't stable in Windows but ran DOS fine...

Chris,
I'm not a winblows advodate, and you can use whatever OS you want (I use DOS with my sad 366@550)... but you can change the the orientation of the trackball either physically, or electronically (although I'm not sure if the degree of difficulty goes up with the type of t-ball hack you got going there... if it were an arcade trackball you could just re-orient the football =P)  maybe change one of your keyboard hack buttons to a mouse button (but then in MAME you'd need to change whatever that button did to accept the mjouse click as "fire" or button "C" or  whatever instead of whatever key that button was previously tied to.)

HEre's what I'd do (what OS are you using on your main desktop, btw)  I'd load mame and some higher requirements games on your regular desktop and give it a whilr...  (you could even try it in DOS and windows upstairs if you were really ambituos to compare)

If the 1.2 ghz plays the games you mentioned and some other tests cases... use that one in your cabinet and treat yourself to 2ghz  on the "main" pc.

If it dogs too much on the games you mentioned, then I guess the 2ghz goes in the cabinet...  

Eventually as newer/more powerful games get emulated  in MAME that you or your family wants to play you'll have to put the 4ghz machine in there ... as it stands now you could shlop the 2ghz in there and play 99% (broad assumption on my part - i don't have .62 rom set or a 2 ghz AMD)  of the roms... *Shrug*

Not much of an answer, but ... I'd just do some playtesting on the desktop every day pc with  the previously mentioned games... although there's something to be said for putting in a little bit more muscle now, so you won't have to re-upgrade again sooner when the next big game. comes out... hopefully the kids don't like cruisin' series in your household...

good luck!

rampy

[Howard_Casto]

The guys are right... dos is your issue.  You see the KOF games use a lot of system memory but next to no processor resources.  The only way you would be getting bad performance on those kof games is if mame was having trouble handing your memory.  I have an extrememly similar system running xp and it plays those games fine.  

Whoever started the rumor that dos saves you resources for a mame cab was right.... 4 years ago.  You see dos is only helpful if you have an arcade montior (not for long, but that's another story)  or your machine is a pos.  Good machines actually perform better in windoze due to directx and better resorce managment.  Yes windows does take an overhead, but compared to the better utilizaiton of resources you won't miss this overhead.  

If the machine you are working on is faster than 300-500mhz and doesn't have an arcade monitor, it has no business running dos.  I don't care what the situation is, a version of widnows will work better, period, end of story.  

Why am I getting upset about this?  Because people ask this very same question about once a week (have you guys ever heard of searching the archives???)  and the poster is always reluctant to switch from dos for one lame excuse or another.  I usually hear from the very same poster about 2-3 months later after they have finally gave up dos because they were forced to for some reason or another.  100% of the time their response is "WOW! Windows does such a better job.  I should have switched sooner."

So the moral of this story is don't ask questions that have alredy been asked an expect a different answer.  And if the answer that has been given in the past isn't one you are willing to accept then there's no point in asking.  2+2 always equals 4 ya know.

Remember, I'm not flaming anyone in particular, just the concept of posting the same questions over and over and over and over and over........ It makes much more sense to simply add to an existing thread on the topic.  

Who said that?  I said that.  

This is Howard A. Casto signing off.  

[Chris]

Why am I getting upset about this?  Because people ask this very same question about once a week (have you guys ever heard of searching the archives???)  and the poster is always reluctant to switch from dos for one lame excuse or another.  

Ah, but DOS vs. Windows wasn't the question I asked.  The question I asked is if there are games I'm missing out on that perform much better at 2 GHz than at 1.2 GHz.  Everyone else saw the word DOS in the message and decided to make that the subject.

--Chris

[eightbit]

Going from 800 to 1.2ghz wouldn't be huge. Going from 1.2-2.0ghz would be significant.

If it were me I'd put the faster box in the game. Wait a minute that is what I already did. My fastest PC is my mame cab. Its a 950mhz AMD thunderbird. I have all the parts for another PC to upgrade the mame cab again to P3 1.4ghz, the 950 PC is going in another mame cab that I'm building.

[Chris]

I think that's what I'm going to do, and wait to upgrade my main PC until I start feeling the pinch there.  I'll also start reconfiguring the control panel for an eventual transition to Windows.  Now that there's a non-expiring Visual Pinball, Windows just got a lot more attractive...

--Chris

[Jakobud]

As much as I hate running my cabinet in Windows, you will get a SUBSTANCIAL boost in speed by choosing Windows over DOS.

[Howard_Casto]

Why am I getting upset about this?  Because people ask this very same question about once a week (have you guys ever heard of searching the archives???)  and the poster is always reluctant to switch from dos for one lame excuse or another.  

Ah, but DOS vs. Windows wasn't the question I asked.  The question I asked is if there are games I'm missing out on that perform much better at 2 GHz than at 1.2 GHz.  Everyone else saw the word DOS in the message and decided to make that the subject.

--Chris

No you asked another question that's been asked about a million times... "what are the system requirements to play (insert game here)"  Not to be saying anything personal towards you but there are already about 4 threads TODAY that have this topic. As a matter of fact your question is asked roughly once a day at least and the answer hasn't changed in the past year or so save the recent additions of the crusin games.   As I said before I really wish people would try to consolidate these repeat questions.  I think it's good to ask questions, but I think it's a waste of time to ask questions that have already been asked and answered.  You see by nature we are a nice lot (including me contrary to popular belief)  and we'll reluctantly answer the same questions for different people over and over and over.    I would just like to see that time spent towards new and more exciting topics.    

[rampy]

I would just like to see that time spent towards new and more exciting topics.    

good idea Howard! I'll be shift-refreshing and CTRL-F5ing the front page waiting for your new and exciting post/thread =P

rampy

[eightbit]

I would just like to see that time spent towards new and more exciting topics.    

Howard must you dump on every thread every time you post? I just checked and out of your last 50 posts only 1 of them wasn't a reply. If you'd like some new topics than why don't you post some instead of picking other threads apart.

I thought this thread had some new information in it even if most of it was a re-hash. At least the origanel poster asked a very specific question about performance at certain speeds. Haven't you ever found yourself discussing the same problem with different people repeatedly? Maybe even with the same people if your information gets updated.

[Ix3]

I heard Linux works well for MAME, although I couldn't tell you any more than that about it.

Yes it does, load the package called XMAME and run it.  The rest is just like any other MAME port.  Though, linux may be a little frightening to learn just to run mame on, but it is free, and does have built in drivers for many controllers (see joystick-parport.txt in the kernel doc or check out a semi-recent version here http://www.charmed.com/support/kernel/docs/joystick-parport.txt but that doesn't even cover the Xbox support...)  

Now, the 'soft power-down' you spoke of, why not just use a front end that has  a "Shutdown" button on the bottom which would then send the shutdown signal to the operating system and power itself down?  Or do you have a power switch sticking out the front that you must use?

Your 800Mhz should be fine for mame/snes -- I run all sorts of emulation on my 750Mhz Athlon w/ absolutely no prob, the only times I start dropping frames is when I turn on the graphical enhancements in snes9x such as bilinear filtering, but that's just because my graphics card isn't up to snuff.

If you ever need linux related help, send me an email ixe [a][t] quant [d]

• [t] us I love doing that kind of stuff.

[Chris]

Now, the 'soft power-down' you spoke of, why not just use a front end that has  a "Shutdown" button on the bottom which would then send the shutdown signal to the operating system and power itself down?  Or do you have a power switch sticking out the front that you must use?

Actually, I think I've hit on an even better idea.  This new motherboard supports both "power on from keyboard" and "Suspend to RAM".  I'll rearrange my power so one outlet is always hot, do the relay trick for the rest of the outlets, then replace the switch at the top of the cab with a button wired to the Suspend header.  Pressing any control on the panel powers up the cab, and pressing the Suspend button on top kills the power instantly and safely, with the benefit that when I power up again, the cabinet doesn't have to boot; it just picks up where it left off, be it in a front end or the middle of a paused game!

--Chris