Act Labs -- Star Wars flight yoke

[desmatic]

I recently sent an email to product development at Act Labs pleading for the production of a Star Wars type flight yoke. As MAMEer's, I'm sure you know exacty what I'm talking about, a two-axis joystick controller used on the classic Star Wars arcade game, a one axis type was also used for Spy Hunter. Such a controller could pretty much be used for any driving / flight game. Act labs quickly replied (as usual) with a fairly straight forward answer. It is posted below. They, naturally, need to make sure that there is solid demand for such a product and they need a prototype model. As for the model prototype, why not just copy the original starwars yoke. As for demand, well that's what this post is all about. Is anyone interested in such a controller? If you are, how much would you be willing to pay for one?

Since this product doesn't exist, I suppose designs could also be submitted. Grip designs, number of buttons, button placement, analog vs digital design (maybe even both so that it works with both mame and consoles).

Anyways, maybe if we make enough noise, they'll make it.






Hello,

Thanks for your comments on a potential flight yoke product.
We haven't had much demand or software game support for such a product even
though it sounds like a good idea. However, if we do get enough voices
regarding a flight yoke we will consider it. If you have examples of
existing flight yoke chassis moldings or game support please let us know and
this will aid in our research on a flight yoke device.

Best Regards,
Grant Louie, Electronic Engineering Technologist
ACT Labs Ltd. - Product Development
Richmond, BC
www.act-labs.com



Easy MameCab

http://easymamecab.mameworld.net

[menace]

Sadly, unless it was real cheap (like myself) I would just build it from scratch--this is BYOAC after all

[desmatic]

It would cost more to make one.  Besides which, it's not a trivial undertaking.  It would be like trying to build your own joystick or steering wheel.

I've seen plenty of  home made  models.  Aside from the fact that they were expensive and technically difficult to make, they don't look at all the same.  I'd rather use a hacked up stearing wheel.   But steering wheels have only one axis,  and flight games need two.

[Xiaou2]

While I think its a great idea... I strongly advise that some Really good guidlines are sent. Probably should have been sent before the email.

First off... they think its a flight yoke... which isnt true. Flight yokes push and pull - in and out. Starwars pivots on a single axis.

They seem to be notorious for messing up what we Emu fans want. Took a ton of emails to get them to make a gun... but they made it for pc and not tv. Then we rallied for them to make a tv gun... but they wernt going to make it use svideo... Finally, with lots more emails... they say they will make the svideo tv guns if they get the preorders. However... no kickback coil, or modifications to the shell... (which it really needs)

Maybe they will mess up the handles...or make the triggers to hard to push... or with low quality switches that break within a months use. Again... if we decide to ask for it... then we all should be very specific on the design.

  Ohh... and another thing... It would have to be mountable on a control panel somehow (for most of us).

If anyone has the original blueprints... measurments..ect,  maybe they could upload them for people here to grab and modify.   Best re-design gets voted to be sent to actlabs for production ? : )   heh

[Tiger-Heli]

I would like to see a commercially available Star Wars Yoke.

For design, personally, I would like something close to the original in a USB port connection (i.e. the original with 1-Up's Dual strike Hack.  Would be nice is somewhere (maybe in the center if they're scratch building it), there were PROGRAMMABLE buttons for coin input, 1 or 2 player start, and Pause.

I would want it either desktop mountable (like a PC steering wheel) or panel mountable (and I could make a console for it.)

Price - they go for around $75-125 on E-bay without the interface.  I would think you could mass produce one for $50-$75 and I would be interested in one for this price.  However, I would not be interested in purchasing one until I first had a X-arcade controller, Rotary joystick panel, spinner, and trackball, so it's rather low on the priority list (although I do plan to get one eventually).

[1UP]

Just one problem-- if by some incredible stroke of fate the yokes actually get made, they will almost assuredly be made of plastic (the originals were metal...)  If I knew anything about molding, I'd make a cast of my handles or something...

Hey, maybe if they get the yoke made, can we hit 'em up for Tron joysticks next?  

[Howard_Casto]

I think this is a bad idea at least if it's going to be made from act labs.  Let us remember what kind of comany they are. They make consumer home-grade controllers, NOT arcade quality devices.  For a lightgun that's fine, but for a huge controller like a yoke it wouldn't be.  As 1up said it would almost definately be made out of plastic.  Also they would undoubtedly design the shell in such a way that you could use it without mounting it to anything, so that the casual consumer could use it.  What this means to us is we would have to hack it anyway, so we might as well find an original yoke or build one from scratch.

Happs might be a better place to submit ideas to for this particular product.  Of course then it would probably cost $500, but hey at least it would be arcade-grade.  

 

[ripzone]

I also emailed Act-Labs and their response was:

Sorry, but we don't have any plans on making this product.

Happ Controls already have a Flight Yoke but its very expensive.  

It costs + 1000$. Ouch!

Its more expensive than  my cab.  

Here is the link: (http://www.happcontrols.com/driving/50810500.htm)  

[Chris]

Several people have promised detailed measurements and photos of their disassembled yokes, but none have ever done it.

A Star Wars yoke would be good for Start Wars, ROTK, StunRunner, RoadBlasters, Spy Hunter, and 270 degree driving game, and any gun games.  (Operation Wolf would probably be loads of fun with a SW yoke!)  For driving games, one could even use the tilting handles in place of pedals if you have a pedalless cabinet; this should work well for Spy Hunter.  If I ever build a yoke, I'm even going to put an illuminated button in the center for the Spy Hunter weapons van and hack the driver to send the Van signal to one of the LED's so the button can flash properly...

We've seen an example of a yoke made of wood (see the thread at http://www.arcadecontrols.org/yabbse/index.php?action=search2); although it's not metal, it should be more solid than plastic.  Aluminum project boxes could be used for the center....

The old argument was that by the time you home-build a yoke of quality parts, it becomes as expensive as a real yoke.  However, real yokes are not coming onto the market as often as they used to, and when they do, it's usually people in this forum fighting with each other over it driving the price up...

[Xiaou2]

 
 I dissagree.   I tried my starwars controller on gun games and even for throttle in spy hunter... and it wasnt a good thing.   Its too awkward and clumbsy... due to the mechanics behind it all.

  Its all about using the correct controller for the correct job.  Theres a reason why you dont drive you car with a dpad... or even an analog stick.    Loss of control, and response time.

  As for plastic not being sturdy... thats ludicrus.   I can break a wooden box appart with enough force... but ripping a plastic shell off a joystick is nearly impossible.  

 And ripzone... starwars controller is not a flight yoke.  It pivots on a single axis rather than moves 'in and out' like the 1000$ happs controller.

  And finally...  yeah... my yoke probably cost a little less than getting one off ebay.  But... after the several failed versions... and parts that didnt work right... it got up there.   What the main issue is... is how well its made... and will it last for a long time.  Im not really certain about it... as its certainly not made with superior precision.

[wee beastie]

I promised I'd get some pics of my yoke up when I get my computer put back together.  It currently doesn't have a Mobo or a Processor yet, so hooking up my digicam or even running it is impossible.  I should be getting the mobo + processor this weekend (late xmas).  When I get it worked out, I have a few shots of the thing (taken apart) with a measuring tape in the pics to give an idea of how big the parts are.

I don't have any webspace to put these on, so I'll probably have to email the pics to someone and let them post the images.  I also don't know how to optimize pics for web viewing, so you might want to do that to, because the original pics are pretty big (max resolution on a 3+ megapixel camera)

[Chris]

 I dissagree.   I tried my starwars controller on gun games and even for throttle in spy hunter... and it wasnt a good thing.   Its too awkward and clumbsy... due to the mechanics behind it all.

Hmm... I'm suprised, as when it comes right down to it, the main TIE fighter fight is essentially a gun game.  How does your controller feel in Star Wars compared to a real yoke?

 Its all about using the correct controller for the correct job.  Theres a reason why you dont drive you car with a dpad... or even an analog stick.    Loss of control, and response time.

This is true... however, many gun games actually use analog sticks rather than lightguns, so for those games response time should be okay with a yoke...

 As for plastic not being sturdy... thats ludicrus.   I can break a wooden box appart with enough force... but ripping a plastic shell off a joystick is nearly impossible.

It's the axes that I'd be worried about, not the shell.  All that twisting could really put a strain on plastic shafts... a plastic shell over a metal structure would be fine, though...

 And finally...  yeah... my yoke probably cost a little less than getting one off ebay.  But... after the several failed versions... and parts that didnt work right... it got up there.   What the main issue is... is how well its made... and will it last for a long time.  Im not really certain about it... as its certainly not made with superior precision.

All the more reason for you to write it up so we don't make the same mistakes....

[Howard_Casto]

I also emailed Act-Labs and their response was:

Sorry, but we don't have any plans on making this product.

Happ Controls already have a Flight Yoke but its very expensive.  

It costs + 1000$. Ouch!

Its more expensive than  my cab.  

Here is the link: (http://www.happcontrols.com/driving/50810500.htm)  

Yes it's very expensive, but that's a fight sim yoke that uses real aircraft grade parts.  A star-wars yoke would be constructed very diferently.  

[Tiger-Heli]

Hmm... I'm suprised, as when it comes right down to it, the main TIE fighter fight is essentially a gun game.  How does your controller feel in Star Wars compared to a real yoke?

I was going to agree with you on the yoke for driving games, and then I remembered some of the E-mails that I'd sent back and forth and I don't think it will do the job.  A star wars yoke was limited to about 90 degrees of travel in the X-axis (side to side) and less than that (maybe about 45-degrees, maybe less) in the Y-axis (up and down).  Either the yoke will work for 270 degree games, but you'll have to make it super sensitive in star wars (and still not hit the stops like a real controller would) or you will have to have the yoke limited to 90 degrees and have your driving games so limited that controlling the car would be an issue.

It's the axes that I'd be worried about, not the shell.  All that twisting could really put a strain on plastic shafts... a plastic shell over a metal structure would be fine, though...

Agreed, just talking from personal experience.  I haven't started my cab yet, so I still use a PC joystick for MAME.  They cost about $2 on sale and I break one about every three months.  I expect the Happ joysticks to last longer, but I would be Pi**ed if I spent $150 on an Act-Labs SW yoke and it broke in three months.  The original yoke was all steel except for the buttons and internal gears.

All the more reason for you to write it up so we don't make the same mistakes....

Chris, I typed a reply to your earlier post.  Be glad my computer locked up before I sent it.  Have you ever been to Xiaou2's site?  He DID write it up!  (or at least he posted pictures of what he did and I think if you read his Super Hang-On controller write-up, you will see most of the guts of his Star Wars yoke control.  I know he didn't say "the handles are 2-inches by 5-inches with a .2-inch radius corner", but that's probably b/c they are hand-made and he just quit sanding when he was happy with the feel.

I was amused by your statement "Several people have promised detailed measurements and photos of their disassembled yokes, but none have ever done it."  I personally started a thread on trying to make a Twisty-Grip look more like a Star Wars yoke.  In my research I got detailed measurements for all the components I needed from either Jude (Star Wars yoke conversion on the main BYOAC site) or 1-Up.  I posted the dimensions I was working to (I think), but Real Life got in the way of my pursuing the project.

Let's face it though.  Most of us have jobs apart from building arcade controls.  And if my job WERE building arcade controls, I don't think I'd be posting "And this is what the internal dimensions are and this is who I buy my supplies from and this is how I machine the raw stock I purchase, etc."  Bottom line is most of us are trying to get OUR personal controls working, and along the way if we can help someone else out, so much the better, but that's really a secondary concern.

Just out of curiosity, which detailed measurement do you want and why?  I doubt Act-Labs would make a reproduction to the point of making an internally faithful reproduction of a SW yoke, (b/c there are cheaper ways of making one aside from the fact that someone else still holds the Atari Copyrights on the design.)  And  I doubt you wanted to machine and sell reproductions yourself.

I mean personally, I wanted to know the below panel depth required, b/c if I bought one off E-bay I wanted to know that the desktop console I designed to house it would have enough clearance, but if I were designing it from scratch, I certainly wouldn't worry about "It better have XX.X inches of below panel depth and have a YY.Y inch diameter gear wheel b/c that's what the original one had!!!"

Anyway, I didn't mean to jump on your case, but it bugs me when people act like someone else owes them something when they don't (like when people complain about OutRun not working in the current MAME even though MAME is a free download and even open source.  (although 1-Up might accuse me of the same thing, so I think I'll shut up now ;-) )

[Xiaou2]

 Thanks Tiger-Heli.


   I pay like 60$ a year to have my site up... and its for eveytone to see.  For me, thats a lot of money... as I dont make much.  Im still paying for the stuff I spent on all the controls, parts, and tools needed on my credit card.

  It wasnt easy to make that yoke... and it wasnt really planned.  Sort of made it on the fly... thus if I wanted to measure it all... would require a lot of work to dissasemble it all.  But thats only the beggining.

  The handles were routed to an unknown depth... the gears that i used may not be available everywhere... the pots i used were from a joystick thats probably not made anymore - this the holder is also partially made from the joy parts.  

  Getting the wood angles is dangerous... and I have no clue as how to measure them.   Im also not really versed on normal measurements... as I havnt done that since highschool woodshop.  

  The metal back parts are described... but most probably wont attempt it... as it requires a tablesaw with a special wheel.

  I should have used bearings for better accuracy, smoothness and reliability... and also maybe bearings on the vertical axis as well.

  If I had the extra cash... I might try again for a version that I could documnet and others could successfully re-produce... however... I dont.   Which is one reason that my cab is still unfinished.

  If you want to donate - Id be happy to use it for good.. but hey,  I cant promise anything cause prototypes are just that.   I could get it on the first try... but it may take 5 versions and 300$ in parts.

  Ive put a lot of effort up for all to see on my site, because I want to share the joy.   I also was the one who worked his way into getting a guy to let me scan his discs of tron artwork - and then spending a week retouching the scan by hand.... ohh and then baddger the mame team to add artwork functionality... and finally to scan and send 30 pages of schematics to a dev in germany for discs of trons lighting circuitry.

  Ohh and finally... I actually Tried to make a spinner out of homemade plastics to sell.  I spent arround 500$... and found that I couldnt make the final part because the plastic was too brittle at thin depths.  : (    


 Anyway,   I think Ive paid my dues   ;- )


 ---

  As for the plans... I just wanted to know what the specs were to make it as close as possible to the original.  IE - like the angles of the handles going inward... and what degees the push in or out... ect.   Obviously... the shell shape would need to be cosmetically different... and also, maybe make the handles slightly different?

   

 

[1UP]

I promised I'd get some pics of my yoke up when I get my computer put back together.  It currently doesn't have a Mobo or a Processor yet, so hooking up my digicam or even running it is impossible.  I should be getting the mobo + processor this weekend (late xmas).  When I get it worked out, I have a few shots of the thing (taken apart) with a measuring tape in the pics to give an idea of how big the parts are.

I don't have any webspace to put these on, so I'll probably have to email the pics to someone and let them post the images.  I also don't know how to optimize pics for web viewing, so you might want to do that to, because the original pics are pretty big (max resolution on a 3+ megapixel camera)

Send the pics to me.  I'll post them on my site next time I update.  (I have a yoke, a digi cam, and a working PC, but don't want to bust open my yoke again...   )

[Chris]

Have you ever been to Xiaou2's site?  He DID write it up!  (or at least he posted pictures of what he did and I think if you read his Super Hang-On controller write-up, you will see most of the guts of his Star Wars yoke control.

Yes, his pictures are excellent!  Good point about the Hang On controller writeup; a lot of that same information would apply to a Star Wars yoke...

I personally started a thread on trying to make a Twisty-Grip look more like a Star Wars yoke.  In my research I got detailed measurements for all the components I needed from either Jude (Star Wars yoke conversion on the main BYOAC site) or 1-Up.  I posted the dimensions I was working to (I think), but Real Life got in the way of my pursuing the project.

I remeber the thread, but I mssed the measurements. I don't see them now, but I'm probably looking in the wrong place... I'll keep digging.  Thanks!

Just out of curiosity, which detailed measurement do you want and why?

Right now I'd just be happy to know the width, height and depth of the handles and how far apart the handles are.  I can probably figure out the rest from the photographs.

 I doubt Act-Labs would make a reproduction to the point of making an internally faithful reproduction of a SW yoke, (b/c there are cheaper ways of making one aside from the fact that someone else still holds the Atari Copyrights on the design.)  And  I doubt you wanted to machine and sell reproductions yourself.

Well, at one time I did ask for a picture of the buttons and triggers next to a ruler because I wanted to cast a bunch of replacement triggers and thumb buttons for people, since these always seemed to be missing from the yokes on EBay.  However, since then, Classicade has started to offer replacement buttons and triggers.

--Chris

[Tiger-Heli]

I remeber the thread, but I mssed the measurements. I don't see them now, but I'm probably looking in the wrong place... I'll keep digging.  Thanks!

Actually, you're probably right, I don't remember if I posted the measurements or not.  What I did do is take 1-Up's and Jude's info and model the original yoke full scale in Word.  (Get the free viewer from Microsoft if you need it (someone put the link in one of the threads last week).  Get the Word files here:

http://www.fraggersxtreme.com/museum/Temp/yokeplans.zip

Right now I'd just be happy to know the width, height and depth of the handles and how far apart the handles are.  I can probably figure out the rest from the photographs.

Width, heigth, and how far apart should be accurate on the files I posted.  Depth (Perpendicular to the Control Panel) might be tricky.  I think someone told me the handles were thicker at the lower portion than the top.  I think I took the average and made them straight in my figures.   And I'm pretty sure I lost the E-mail with the handle dimensions, sorry!!!

Hope this helps!!!!

[Chris]

I remeber the thread, but I mssed the measurements. I don't see them now, but I'm probably looking in the wrong place... I'll keep digging.  Thanks!

Actually, you're probably right, I don't remember if I posted the measurements or not.  What I did do is take 1-Up's and Jude's info and model the original yoke full scale in Word.  (Get the free viewer from Microsoft if you need it (someone put the link in one of the threads last week).  Get the Word files here:

http://www.fraggersxtreme.com/museum/Temp/yokeplans.zip

Woohoo!  This is absolutely PERFECT!  Thanks a TON!!!!

--Chris

[Tiger-Heli]

Woohoo!  This is absolutely PERFECT!  Thanks a TON!!!!

--Chris

Glad I could help!!!