Control w/ Authentic Pac-Feel?

[TurboC--]

I've been told the Ultimarc T-Stik is extremely rigid, and that for my Pac cab I should put in the Happ Reunion stick.  But that is 4-way only, and I was hoping to have a 4/8-way switchable.  Are there any 4/8 way switchable sticks that feel right for Pac-man?  Has anyone tried the Ultimarc J-stik ball-top?  Any other good ball-tops I am missing?

[Stingray]

Omnistick Prodigy plays the Pac games fine, but I still prefer a dedicated four way Wico leaf, personally.

-S

[Lilwolf]

The pacman sticks had a pretty short throw though.  I don't have one, but I used one right after using a wico 4way leaf and could tell the difference then.  But someone with a real one might want to comment.

But you might find that a happs 49 way with a ball top stick might be a good solution.  Closer then a t-stick and all the other functionality.  Then you would have them all... but I don't know if the throw would be way off.

[_Iz-]

  Has anyone tried the Ultimarc J-stik ball-top?

Yes, It rocks. I swapped out both my Happ supers for them.

[spiffyshoes]

I've tried out several different 4-way joysticks to try and find the one that I liked best for playing Ms. Pac Man.

These are the joysticks that I've tried in order from which I liked best to which I liked least as a 4-way joystick.

1. Happ P360 wich Oscar 4-way restrictor plate and Wico Ball Top. ( Just as good as the Seimitsu except with optical smoothness.

[TurboC--]

LS-32 sounds good.  How hard is it to switch though?  Could I do it through the coin door?  I probably won't need 8-way often, but it's a nice option to have. 

[NoOne=NBA=]

The pacman sticks had a pretty short throw though.  I don't have one, but I used one right after using a wico 4way leaf and could tell the difference then.  But someone with a real one might want to comment.

My Pac-stick is pretty worn, and has a throw somewhere between the Wico and the shorter throw sticks--definitely nowhere near a T-stik throw though.

But you might find that a happs 49 way with a ball top stick might be a good solution.  Closer then a t-stick and all the other functionality.  Then you would have them all... but I don't know if the throw would be way off.

The throw on the Happs is kind of long/mushy (alot like the Wicos because it uses the same grommet system, but with no restrictor).
I think the Williams 49-way, with the Groovy Game Gear interface would have a pretty good feel to it.


The Seimitsus are good 8-ways, but I still can't get used to the clover-leaf restrictor on them.
I get the darn things hung up all the time in 4-way mode.
I'm thinking about taking a dremel tool to mine, and sanding down the cloverleafs on them, but I'm not sure if that will make the 4-way action worse by allowing it to hit the diagonals as it goes through.

They are also not the easiest stick to change because you have to remove two screws on the bottom, physically move the restrictor, and then replace the screws.


If I had to pick a swappable 4/8-way for this I'd go with this order:

1) Williams 49-way with GGG interface.
2) 8-way Wicos with homebuilt restrictors for 4-way mode.
3) Happs 49-way with GGG interface AND a homebuilt restrictor for 4-way mode.
4) Sanwa/Seimitsu/J-stik (they all feel close enough to me to lump them together).
5) T-stiks

NOTE: The one stick I haven't tried, and don't know where it would fit in this is the Prodigy.
I've heard the throw on them is to the short side, but that they are not as short/stiff as the T-stiks.
That would likely put them in the Sanwa range, but to the high or low end I can't say.

[whammoed]

3. Ms. Pac Reunion (great stick but can still hit diagonals)

Just tested 3 different ms pac/galaga reunion sticks and could not hit diagonals on any of them.

[spiffyshoes]

LS-32 sounds good.

[whammoed]

LS-32 sounds good.

[TurboC--]

You are all confusing me!!! 

When you talk about Wico, do you mean the old Atari-compatible Wicos with leaf switches?  I actually have 2 of those (Wico Command Control), I always liked them but never thought they would be arcade quality.  Maybe with the homemade restrictor plate...  Geez, half of the point of the project was having a real arcade stick - if I end up using a modified version of the one I've already had for 20 years, that would seem like quite a waste.  At this point I would give up 4/8 way switchability for a true Pac-feel, but seems like someone has something negative to say about all of the available choices.  It's hard to know who to believe without trying them myself.

[_Iz-]

  It's hard to know who to believe without trying them myself.

Exactly. Alot of what you are seeking is subjective and opinions will vary. For the exact pac feel, get an original Wico 4 way leaf joystick. That's what was in the original game. Barring that, try the others and get what makes YOU happy...

[TurboC--]

Trying them costs money. 

If the Happ Reunion stick IS an exact replacement for the Ms Pac / Galaga reunion game, then it should be fine?  But someone is saying it goes cornerwise?  I actually just got back from walking down to the local ice rink, they used to have a MsPac/Galaga reunion, but now it isn't there anymore.  Honestly when it comes down to it, the joystick is absolutely the most important piece of the whole thing.  It's easy to get caught up in all the artwork restoration I am doing and everything else, but without the right stick, basically the whole thing is crap.  I can always switch it out, I guess, if I don't like it. 

I see the Wico 4-way leaf NOS is only $25 from Nicade.  I don't suppose I can change the restrictor plate from 4 to 8-way when I want?  I imagine not.  Ah well.  This looks like the best option though (till someone talks me out of it!)

[NoOne=NBA=]

You are all confusing me!!! 

When you talk about Wico, do you mean the old Atari-compatible Wicos with leaf switches?  I actually have 2 of those (Wico Command Control), I always liked them but never thought they would be arcade quality.

The guts on those are nearly identical to the 1000s of Wicos that came standard on most arcade machines prior to about 1985, or so--but they are not the same.
The ones I'm talking about were the stock sticks on Robotron, to name the most popular game that used them.

Maybe with the homemade restrictor plate...  Geez, half of the point of the project was having a real arcade stick - if I end up using a modified version of the one I've already had for 20 years, that would seem like quite a waste.

My restrictor plate stipulation is because I don't like sticks that overtravel.
The 49-way, with digital restriction from Groovy Game Gear will act exactly like a 4-way electronically, but not physically.
It will still travel around in a big circle physically.

At this point I would give up 4/8 way switchability for a true Pac-feel, but seems like someone has something negative to say about all of the available choices.  It's hard to know who to believe without trying them myself.

That's what I did, and continue to do to this day.

I just got done creating a hybrid stick for my Crazy Climber that has a Competition base, but uses T-stik switches.
That tightens up the stick alot, as far as the initial contact points go.
I still don't like the fact that the stick travels way too far after contacting though.
I need to keep working on it, but I WILL find the perfect joysticks for that one yet.

That said, there is no PERFECT stick for all games.
If you want a "true Pac feel", you should probably get the best condition original Pac-stick you can find, or go with the Reunion sticks.
Those are your two best bets at getting the proper feel you want from a stick.

[NoOne=NBA=]

I see the Wico 4-way leaf NOS is only $25 from Nicade.  I don't suppose I can change the restrictor plate from 4 to 8-way when I want?

No, the 4/8-way restrictors are built right into the joystick base itself.
Swapping them out means changing the entire base to the stick.

This looks like the best option though (till someone talks me out of it!)

OK, let me give it a try.

The Wico does not feel anything like a Pac-stick; and was NOT standard on them, as was suggested earlier.
The Wico has a considerably longer travel to the stick, is not as responsive initially as the Pac-stick, and has a longer shaft, larger ball, and no texture on the ball.

[danny_galaga]

man, ive never been observant enough to notice the difference between one type and the other. probably notice the difference between leaf and micro switch but thats it. you cant just get used to what you have?

[TurboC--]

Well right now I have 5 trivia buttons.   (By the way from the included papers in the game I think it was actually a Sexual Trivia machine, which is amusing since I just tried that on emulator and it has to be about the worst arcade game I've seen - and they painted over an original Pac-Man!  For that!!!)

As far as getting used to a stick or it not mattering... when you are doing precise motions such as in fast Ms Pac Man (perhaps my favorite arcade game) then the joystick truly is everything.  Maybe only the fast-pac playing people truly understand...

[Kremmit]

If the Happ Reunion stick IS an exact replacement for the Ms Pac / Galaga reunion game, then it should be fine? 

It is an exact replacement for the Ms Pac / Galaga machine, true.  But it is NOT the same stick that was in original Ms. Pac machines, or Pac-Man machines, or Galaga machines.

For the exact pac feel, get an original Wico 4 way leaf joystick. That's what was in the original game.

Negative.  Original Pac Man games used a Midway 4-way leafswitch joystick, which does not feel much like a Wico 4-way, despite the fact that they both use a rubber grommet.

You are all confusing me!!! 

When you talk about Wico, do you mean the old Atari-compatible Wicos with leaf switches?  I actually have 2 of those (Wico Command Control), I always liked them but never thought they would be arcade quality. 

Wico made real arcade parts, and decided to make a line of Atari sticks based on their existing arcade line.  While those Command Control sticks were the best ones you could get for Atari, they aren't quite as good as the ones they sold for arcade use.

I think the Williams 49-way, with the Groovy Game Gear interface would have a pretty good feel to it.

I love these, I think they feel great.  They don't feel the same as a Pac stick, but they feel good.  The throw is pretty long, though.  If you always push your stick to the edge of it's travel, you may not like it for Pac games.  Players who don't insist on pushing as far as they can probably won't be bothered by this.

NOTE: The one stick I haven't tried, and don't know where it would fit in this is the Prodigy.
I've heard the throw on them is to the short side, but that they are not as short/stiff as the T-stiks.
That would likely put them in the Sanwa range, but to the high or low end I can't say.

The Prodigy has a really short throw, and feels clicky.  I think feels pretty similar to the T-stick, despite the fact that they are totally different joystick bases from different manufacturers.

If I were buying a stick specifically for Pac games, I'd either get a real Midway 4-way and put a new grommet in it, or I'd get a Prodigy or T-Stick+.  The Midway will be the most authentic, as it IS authentic.  The T-Stick+ or the Prodigy may actually play Pac games better, due to the exceptionally short throw and precise feel.  Plus, they're switchable 4/8 way, which is a bonus.

Whatever you do, have fun!

[NoOne=NBA=]

And thus we hear from the OTHER joystick hog on the board.


TurboC,

I'm guessing THIS game would give your trivia game a run for it's money--IF I could read Japanese.

It's a quiz game on COOKING.

I have a theory that it was originally released as a scientific experiment, to see if people in Japan really WOULD put a coin into anything with a slot for it.

[Arcade82]

my friend has a ms pac/gal reunion stick and it's awesome, the ball is a tad too small though

[NoOne=NBA=]

my friend has a ms pac/gal reunion stick and it's awesome, the ball is a tad too small though

Is it too small, or is it the size of the original?

I always thought the original ball was too small, as well--given my love of Wicos.

[Arcade82]

oh hmm maybe i'm used to the wicos you speak of

but yeah I thought it was kinda small.. kinda like a dum dum lollipop lol but bigger i think

original = 1 3/8"
reunion = 1 1/4"

according to happcontrols.com

new question.. frank answer needed but dont be too harsh.. a 17" pc monitor (16" viewable).. that's pretty good for ms pacman right? vertical

edit oops forgot this wasnt my thread lol

[Xiaou2]

 I just won a MS Pacman joystick off ebay.

 Its much different than I expected.  Very cool indeed.

 The diamond restrictor is at the top of the stick.  Its just a very thick metal
hole.  Maybe 1/4" thick.   Very durrable, and seems to have no wear on it.

 The plastic sleeve that rides along it however looks like it needs replacing.  Slight
grooved wear.

 The bottom of the joy has a square restrictor.   Which is kinda odd.. cause you wouldnt think it would be like that.

 The leafs are mounted in a very interesting way:

  As I pushed downwards.. and started to roll to the left - almost immediately the
left leaf was registering.   It seems  the leafs are spaced in such a way that theres almost zero clearences till activation.    They arnt just registering at the 4 points - which you would think.. but rather, activating in-between!  (in the middle of the diagnal pathway). 

 Quite a wild design.  Ill try to take some pics at a later date.
 

[RandyT]

  The diamond restrictor is at the top of the stick.  Its just a very thick metal
hole.  Maybe 1/4" thick.   Very durrable, and seems to have no wear on it.

 The plastic sleeve that rides along it however looks like it needs replacing.  Slight
grooved wear.

In an well-used machine, that plastic would be worn in two and heavy grooves would be worn into the shaft.  Sounds like you got a decent specimen.

  As I pushed downwards.. and started to roll to the left - almost immediately the
left leaf was registering.   It seems  the leafs are spaced in such a way that theres almost zero clearences till activation.    They arnt just registering at the 4 points - which you would think.. but rather, activating in-between!  (in the middle of the diagnal pathway). 

Nothing odd about that.  It's exactly how a good 4-way should act.  There should be a dead spot (at least for mechanical switch based sticks) and that dead spot should be in the middle of any 2 directions and be as small as humanly possible without the possibility of actuating any 2 switches simultaneously.

This, BTW, is also how the Prodigy (OMNI-Stik) behaves in 4-way mode.

RandyT

[NoOne=NBA=]

The bottom of the joy has a square restrictor.

[Kremmit]

Here's a pic of a real Pac stick (from the bottom)  -note the diamond restrictor.



Xiaou2- if your square restrictor is the same size, you ought to be able to drill 2 new screw holes and rotate it 45 degrees.

[NoOne=NBA=]

Xiaou2- if your square restrictor is the same size, you ought to be able to drill 2 new screw holes and rotate it 45 degrees.

It's highly probable that will work.
The diamond shaped restrictors (Tron/Pacman) fit into a diamond shaped hole.
The square ones (DOT/Xenophobe/Possibly Bosconian) fit into a round hole.

I've measured my DOT and Tron restrictors, and they are exactly the same size, just oriented differently.
I've also put a Pac restrictor into a Xeno base, and they fit nicely.
The opposite is not true, though.
You can put a smaller diamond into a larger circle, but not a larger circle into a smaller diamond.