How many buttons?

[TurboC--]

I'm building a MAME cabinet out of an old Pac-Man.  I'm planning to use the existing 19" arcade monitor positioned vertically, for authenticity, so I will only be able to play games that will work on that monitor configuration (basically many old classics like Pac-Man series, Galaga, Frogger etc.)  How many buttons should I bother putting on the panel for each of the 2 players?  I designed a virtual panel and was able to squeeze on 2 sticks, 6 buttons for each stick and a trackball.  But I am thinking 6 buttons might be useless for the old games, and just get in the way.  Should I go with 4 each?  2??

P.S.:  Is there any list of games that work on a vertical 19" arcade monitor?  MAME is able to sort the list games by vertical/horizontal, but not by resolution or monitor size. 

[Tiger-Heli]

You can run horizontal games on it.  They will just be letterboxed.  You can run any vertical games on it.  It really doesn't matter if the vertical games used a 14" or a 27" screen in the arcade, MAME will play them on a 19".

If you limit it to vertical, 2 buttons are a must, 3 would be useful for some games, 4 would be used occasionally.

[NoOne=NBA=]

Don't add ANY buttons to it.

If you want a 2-P fighter cab, go BUY a fighter cab.
Better yet, post your Pac-cab on the Buy/Sell/Trade forum here, and see if someone will deliver a really nice dynamo cab to your house for it.

If you really HAVE to have fire/jump buttons, use the player starts.

[CheffoJeffo]

I'm building a MAME cabinet out of an old Pac-Man.  I'm planning to use the existing 19" arcade monitor positioned vertically, for authenticity, so I will only be able to play games that will work on that monitor configuration (basically many old classics like Pac-Man series, Galaga, Frogger etc.)  How many buttons should I bother putting on the panel for each of the 2 players?  I designed a virtual panel and was able to squeeze on 2 sticks, 6 buttons for each stick and a trackball.  But I am thinking 6 buttons might be useless for the old games, and just get in the way.  Should I go with 4 each?  2??

No sure that there are enough vertical simultaneous two player games to make it worthwhile to add a second stick.

You should really consider getting a conversion cab to MAME ... you'll get much more flexibility and a whole lot less hostility.

Maybe some here could trade you, depending on where you are.

Cheers.

[Tiger-Heli]

No sure that there are enough vertical simultaneous two player games to make it worthwhile to add a second stick.

Twin Cobra, 1941, 1943, 19XX, Aero Fighters, Air Gallet, Fire Shark, Gulf Storm, TopGunner/Jackal,  Heavy Barrel, HotDog Storm, Ikari, Raiden, Raiden 2, Strikers 1945 Series, Thunder Dragon, Time Soldiers, Twin Eagle, Varth.

Plus others (Yes, I cheated and used EmuLoader and nplayers.ini).

[TurboC--]

Well, you misunderstand.

[NoOne=NBA=]

That's different then.

If it were my project, I would get a Happ Reunion stick from Ponyboy in the Buy/Sell/Trade forum here.
(He sells new Happ stuff, at prices lower than Happ).
I would center mount it, with two buttons to either side.
That would let you play the 2/4 way games, but would leave out the 8-ways (most of which were horizontal games anyway).

The reunion stick is going to be as close as you can get to an original Pac-stick in look and feel, without finding a "new" Pac-stick on ebay (which would go for a small fortune).
They have the same ball size/shape/texture, but use microswitches/springs, rather than the leafswitch/grommet of the originals.

I can't think of any 2-player simultaneous "classic" games at the moment, so having two sticks on there would be a waste of space, and would throw off the classic feel of the cabinet.

You might also consider doing swappable panels (one 4-way with 2 buttons, one 8-way with 2 buttons, and a trackball panel).
That would let you set up 3 separate gamelists, and play them all as closely as possible to the original controls.

[Tiger-Heli]

I can't think of any 2-player simultaneous "classic" games at the moment, so having two sticks on there would be a waste of space, and would throw off the classic feel of the cabinet.

None of the eighteen I posted were classics?

[NoOne=NBA=]

None of the eighteen I posted were classics?

Not to ME. 

1943 is probably the MOST classic on that list, and it came out in 1987, about the same time I got OUT of the military after 4 years.

Most of the rest are "classic '90s" games.

[TurboC--]

I don't know if I would want to deal with the hassle of swapping panels out.  I guess I am not a 100% purist - I really will love to have the original cab, art, molding, marquee (whichever Pac I choose), coin slots, and monitor, but when it comes to the controls I may go with function over form.  Well, out of the 2-player simultaneous game list posted, nothing is that critical to me for 2-player.  But don't some games need 2 sticks?  Robotron?  Even if it's only Robotron that I would miss out on, I don't want to miss out on any games just for an "authentic looking control panel."

Well.  Looking at it from the opposite angle... I haven't had any good ideas for control panel artwork yet.  Looking at the original Pac-Man control panel online, I can see that I could easily disguise 2 black buttons to the right of the stick.  I could even wire the 1 & 2 player start buttons as regular buttons, and put 1 & 2 player start on the bottom front plate.  Or even use them as both?

I'd hate not to run a trackball though.  That would mean no centipede, tempest (I imagine a trackball can simulate a spinner), arkanoid (if I can run that), and a lot of others I love.  How often will a trackball move and screw up your control?  I'd hate to have that happen in the middle of a game of Pac.  Hmm... (boggle) 

Have you used the Ultimarc T-Stik Plus Ball-Top?  Since it switches the 4/8 restrictor plate from the top of the panel, that was my idealized joystick.  Unless it doesn't feel anything like a Pac stick?  Argh, too many options...

[NoOne=NBA=]

But don't some games need 2 sticks?  Robotron?

Robotron is going to be tiny on that monitor.
It was a horizontal game, so will have big black patches at the top and bottom of the screen on a vertical monitor.
The only classic vertical game that uses two joysticks, at least that I can think of at the moment, is Space Dungeon.

Well.  Looking at it from the opposite angle... I haven't had any good ideas for control panel artwork yet.  Looking at the original Pac-Man control panel online, I can see that I could easily disguise 2 black buttons to the right of the stick.  I could even wire the 1 & 2 player start buttons as regular buttons, and put 1 & 2 player start on the bottom front plate.  Or even use them as both?

That was my suggestion when I thought you had an original Pac-cab.
There was someone on the boards here that did a Tempest conversion awhile back, and set it up for only games that would fit the spinner/2-button format.
You could probably sneak a black trackball into the other black area, but right-handed people would hate you.
Most right-handed people seem to need the stick in their right hand for stick-only games, the stick in their left hand for stick/button games, and the trackball in their right hand for trackball/button games.

I'd hate not to run a trackball though.  That would mean no centipede, tempest (I imagine a trackball can simulate a spinner), arkanoid (if I can run that), and a lot of others I love.

There aren't that many vertical trackball games either.
One you definitely don't want to miss is Quantum.
It was an Atari game, similar to Tempest, but you used a trackball to circle around stuff to capture it.

Tempest is a little tough with a trackball, but is playable.
Just don't expect really high scores.

How often will a trackball move and screw up your control?  I'd hate to have that happen in the middle of a game of Pac.  Hmm... (boggle)

Not a problem.
The joystick games use joysticks, the trackball games use trackballs.
One, or the other, is basically non-functional, depending on the game.

Have you used the Ultimarc T-Stik Plus Ball-Top?  Since it switches the 4/8 restrictor plate from the top of the panel, that was my idealized joystick.  Unless it doesn't feel anything like a Pac stick?  Argh, too many options...

Yes, I've got two T-stiks, as well as a boxload (literally) of other sticks.

I most recently had the T-stiks on my Crazy Climber cabinet temporarily, while I was designing a new CP for it.
The original joysticks were not working well when I got it, and I didn't want to massacre the original CP to retro-fit a different type of stick to it.
I'm just about done with the construction on it, and decided to drop in a set of NOS Wico 8-ways I had laying around because the T-stiks were wearing me out on long play sessions with the temporary CP.

The T-stiks are really a preference thing.
They have almost no throw to them, and are the stiffest stick I've ever played with.
The Pac-sticks by contrast have a relatively long throw to them, and are alot less stiff.

[TurboC--]

Hmm.

[NoOne=NBA=]

Did you already pitch the one with the trivia holes in it?
If not, you'd be amazed what a little JBWeld, and some bondo will do for filling in the holes.

Somebody around here had a set of sideart stencils for Pacman.
You might do a search, and see if they still have them.
I can't really help you with the sideart recovery because I haven't ever personally done it.
There is one place that makes repro art for Pac cabs though.

I think having the CPO similar to the original, but layed out to fit your controls is the route to go on this.
I would go for the "hide-a-control" method, and use all black controls in black areas of the CP, so that it's not immediately apparent that it's not a real Pac machine.

[TurboC--]

I'd never pitch anything substantial from my cab until I was sure I was done with it and that it was totally worthless.  (Well, I pitched the "? Trivia ?" sticker that I peeled off the side - that was mainly out of spite!)  Actually, underneath the trivia panel facing is most of the original wood panel that still has the original openings for the Pac 4-way stick, buttons etc.  But it's kinda amateur-looking and might not fit my desired control configuration anyway.  I'll have to look at it again.

How stupid is a 1.5" trackball?  I can't really get a good handle on how small that is (is that really the diameter??)  The problem is that the larger trackballs w/ mounting kit, look like they will never fit in this control panel, unless I extend it down, further messing up the original Pac-Man look.  JBWeld looks pretty cool, I may use it. 

Sorry for pestering with a million questions in 1 day.  I'll try to read more of the FAQs and maybe get more of the basics down, as far as how to do the panel and facing etc.  Lots to learn...