Cab Cooling

[Lilwolf]

Ok, every summer my cab stops working.  I know I've had heat problems for a while, but it only happens for a few months.

Last year I just moved my computer to the outside.  But this year I don't have a safe place to put it.  And I've just stopped playing for a while.  (and stopped all development on my frontend... )

Anyway, I'm getting the hanker'n to get it up and running again.  I have a small (3"x3") fan thats very strong.  I was going ot put it pointing in, then put it though some dryer duct plastic pipe stuff (whatever goes from the back of your dryer to outside).  And put this over my processor.  Then add some ducts at the top to draw warm air out. 

Is this the best solution?  I don't really want to add a bunch of fans and would love to move to less and quieter solution but can't afford a water cooled system for a while.

Or should I just move my computer to the outside with some extensions... and then wait for the weather to cool up.  (I think its the humitity more then the heat... but we have plenty of both)

[Sinner]

Heat rises...add some vents near the top to allow hot air to get out...monitor it, and if it continues to be hot, add a fan, to draw hot air out...

[rdagger]

I've

[RayB]

If you have a proper fan on the CPU and in the tower, then heat should NOT be an issue and could be a sign that:

A. Your heatsink is on backwards

B. You didn't spread the right amount of heatsink compound on the CPU

C. You are over-clocking the CPU

D. Something is blocking air flow.


I used to have overheating issues and thought it was due to poor ventilation and/or the fact that AMD chips just run hotter, because when I took the side off my tower, then the chip ran cooler (until I would play some intensive 3D games). But turned out the real issue was I had the heatsink on the wrong way (it was turned 180').

I scraped off the old heatsink compound, put on a new even layer. Put on the heatsink the right way this time and have not had heat issues ever since.

(In terms of fans, all I have is a power supply with two fans built into it (an intake and an out), plus of course the CPU fan, and a small front-bay in-take fan which is actually meant to be a harddrive cooler).

[ultramagnus]

add some intake fans in the bottem, some outlet fans near the top, and/or underclock your cpu

and pentiums run hotter than AMD chips...

[AlanS17]

I used to have heat issues in my last cab, but only while playing Zinc games. As it turns out, the processor was fine, but the video card was flipping on on me. Just keep in mind that the processor isn't the only thing that gets hot.

In original hard drive-based games, a large PC case fan mounted to the wall was used to blow across the hard drive to cool it down. It was mounted a few inches from the drive. Vents at the top of the machine took care of rising heat. That's all they ever needed.

I would recommend removing the PC from its case, mounting it directly to the inside of the machine, and blow a big fan (or 2) across it. If you're still nervous, put another large exhaust fan at the top of the machine to blow the hot air back out.

If you don't have some sort of intake vent in the bottom of the machine, you'll probably want to put one in. Just make a big hole and cover it with wire mesh. And don't leave the machine sitting flat on carpet. That'll cover the vent and render it useless. If the machine is on carpet, use casters or leg levelers tog et it off the floor.

[Sinner]

Most cabinets are not airtight...adding an intake and exhaust fan is crazy...think about how much noise it would cause...give the heat someplace to escape (vents at the top), and see if it overheats...if it does, then add an exhaust fan...cutting holes in the cab and addin multiple fans, sounds kind of overkill...removing the side of the PC case could help too...

[AlanS17]

Ever heard more than a whisper come out of a Killer Instinct? I know I haven't. The fact is that large fans don't make much noise. At lower speeds they make even less. The amount of noise they would make is negligible.

He probably already has vents at the top for heat. Pretty much every machine does. Obviously, that hasn't worked for him.

If noise is a concern, then go ahead and add fans one at a time. But I don't think adding 2 fans ever hurt anybody. Heck most PC's have at least 2 fans.

First and foremost, though, I'd recommend taking that PC out of its case or at least opening up. People can make the argument all they want that you need the structure of the case to channel air flow, but it doesn't do much good if you're channeling hot air.

[Sinner]

Ever heard more than a whisper come out of a Killer Instinct? I know I haven't. The fact is that large fans don't make much noise. At lower speeds they make even less. The amount of noise they would make is negligible.

He probably already has vents at the top for heat. Pretty much every machine does. Obviously, that hasn't worked for him.

If noise is a concern, then go ahead and add fans one at a time. But I don't think adding 2 fans ever hurt anybody. Heck most PC's have at least 2 fans.

First and foremost, though, I'd recommend taking that PC out of its case or at least opening up. People can make the argument all they want that you need the structure of the case to channel air flow, but it doesn't do much good if you're channeling hot air.

He mentioned nothing of having vents in the top of his machine, and if it's a homemade cabinet, there is no guarantee that he has vents...so it in fact not "obvious" that it isn't working for him, it is obvious that we don't have enough information to make a diagnosis and suggest a treatment, of " Just make a big hole and cover it with wire mesh." and add two fans...
Why should he spend the money on fans if he doesn't need to? 
Why should he spend the money on two fans, if one will do?

Maybe I just don't understand your thought process, but it seems like a waste of time and money to buy stuff and start cutting holes, when another less evasive method could provide the required results...what am I missing?

[AlanS17]

What's the problem with cutting a hole in a bottom that no one will ever see? It can't hurt, but it can help.

How do you want to find out that 1 fan wasn't enough? The hard way? Last time I checked, overheating a PC was a bad thing.

We're not talking about avoiding a potential problem. We're talking about taking care of one that already exists. To go out completely during the summer months sound like a pretty serious heat issue to me. I don't think any less than substantial measures would fix it.

At least we both agree that vents on top are necessary. However, a vent on top is only halfway effective without a vent underneath. What happens when air rises out and no new air comes in? All you get is thinner hot air left in the cab. It'll never reach a vacuum, but it'll move towards that direction. In a vacuum, heat is dependant on radiation for dispersion. Convection is a much more efficient form of heat disspersion. That's why you need air flow. You won't get true air flow without some sort of cool air intake. Every PC has it, too - even the silent ones with vents on top.

[RayB]

When my problem started I added a bunch of fans (intake and outtake) and guess what? Yeah it kept things cooler but it didn't solve the REAL problem (which was my backwards heatsink).

I think Lilwolf needs to post more symptoms here and perhaps look into the possibility that there is a cause to the problem in the first place. Unless you are overclocking, the average PC set-up is just fine.

[Sinner]

What's the problem with cutting a hole in a bottom that no one will ever see? It can't hurt, but it can help.

How do you want to find out that 1 fan wasn't enough? The hard way? Last time I checked, overheating a PC was a bad thing.

We're not talking about avoiding a potential problem. We're talking about taking care of one that already exists. To go out completely during the summer months sound like a pretty serious heat issue to me. I don't think any less than substantial measures would fix it.

At least we both agree that vents on top are necessary.

I would personally put a thermometer inside, and check it periodically...if it started to get too hot, I would shut down and add a fan...
Like I said before why take all that time cutting and cleaning, spending more money on fans, and mesh grills when you may not have to...
Maybe it's just me, I don't think I would bother wasting the time and money, if I didn't have to...

[Sinner]

When my problem started I added a bunch of fans (intake and outtake) and guess what? Yeah it kept things cooler but it didn't solve the REAL problem (which was my backwards heatsink).

I think Lilwolf needs to post more symptoms here and perhaps look into the possibility that there is a cause to the problem in the first place. Unless you are overclocking, the average PC set-up is just fine.

The PC seems to work fine when out of the cab and when the outter temp is cooler...if the heatsink was the problem, I think he would have problems all of the time...
I assumed that since he's been using it for a while, that his PC was in working order...I apologize...

[Havok]

I would go with a larger fan (4") as an intake near the bottom back, and put another at the top as exhaust. Pay attention to the arrows marking the direction of airflow. The larger fans move more air and are quieter. Make sure to purchase some that run at 21db or lower - they will be whisper quiet!

[elvis]

In all my cabs I cut two 80mm holes somewhere that isn't ugly or eye catching.

In the lower of the two, I put a sucker fan.  In the higher of the two, a blower.  The fans I use are Vantec Stealth fans.  These are very quiet, and you can mount them on rubber washers if vibration is a problem (not that it ever has been for me, as they are quite well built units).

I also put some dust catching material (air-conditioner filter foam can be picked up for around AU$2 per square meter, which will do a hundred fans easy) on the sucker fan, which you can clean (or throw away) every few months to keep dust levels down.

http://www.vantecusa.com/product-cooling.html

These fans are around 20dBa by spec, which is nice and quiet.  I use them in my workstation PC as well.

If you want to get super tricky, you can put all sorts of speed controllers or switches in line to turn these on and off as you see fit, or have them automated by temperature.  But that adds cost and effort, and these things are already whisper quiet anyway.

[Silverwind]

I just bought a boatload of fans from newegg..

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16835150044

if you buy 10+ they are 1.69 each with free shipping.  80mm 12vdc pc case fans.  I plan to get a variable fan speed control to slow them down if they are too noisy.

[TimmyB]

I am with RayB, something else besides cabinet air circulation may be the problem.  CPU Fan mounted the wrong direction, inadaquete CPU heatsink, lack of good contact between heatsink & CPU are all likely suspects.  I strongly recommend an aftermarket CPU heatsink (Zalman, etc) and aftermarket paste (artic silver).

[PaulG]

RayB may be correct about something being incorrectly mounted, but I'd stop short of making declarative statements.  What exactly is the temperature/humitdity outside?

I'm always annoyed (Not speaking to anyone here, just the internet in general) when people go banting about how cool their computer/case is and they give some absurdly rediculious temperature they're operating at.  I do the farenheit-celcius coversion and realize that temperature is at/below normal air temperature.  My thought becomes:  Where the heck do you live?  Alaska?  I live in southern Florida and I have numerous fans (And quality at that) for the fall/spring when it's not really hot enough to turn the air on, but don't wanna kill the computers because of it.  In the winter when a cold front comes through, I get the insanely cool CPU temps too.  But without air temperature numbers, cpu temperature figures are useless.

If it's 95 and humid (And he doesn't have air), not having any fans in that hot box is gonna cause problems.

[RayB]

If it's 95 and humid (And he doesn't have air), not having any fans in that hot box is gonna cause problems.

Point taken.

[Level42]

Some things:

When using ducts, make sure not to make them very long, because the duct itself puts a resistance on the airflow and your fan will loose function because of that.

However, my guess is that it won't be neccesasy to use ducts...

The coolling of a cab is based on the chimney effect. There should be openings in the bottom to let in air and near the top to let if flow out.  So be sure that there's no blocking of that air flow.

Do you have your PC closed inside the cab ? May I ask why ? Remove the cover !
It's already in a casing(the cab !!) so why need another computer case ?

My Jamma cab had a horizontal slide-in board to mount the original game PCB's.
I have installed my PC components directly on that board, best cooling you van get

Like this:
 (looks a little messy on this pic, but the DVD-drive is there only for installing, and there's some more loose parts still...

[Lilwolf]

Sorry I didn't get back to the thread sooner.

BTW, most of my problems started when I put my bezel on my monitor.  I moved my monitor back about 8 months ago and never put the bezel back on.  So I believe this is a big part of the problem.  Its not home made, but I believe the problem is air flow in the entire cab, not just the case.  I've checked all the fans and put new thermal paste to make sure that the cpu fans are optimal.    But case fans will only do so much if the intake is hot.

I ended up moving my computer on the outside again to do some testing and get it up and working.  Then I haven't had time to do anything since.  I want to make sure its really overheat problems instead of the computer itself is dying.  It is an old PC (2+ years of daily use) so there are chances parts are starting to go.  Works fine until I get into mame... and 20 seconds later full lock... So its sounding like overheat problems

Anyway thanks for all the input.

[beek]

If you buy a 120mm 12 volt fan and run it at 7 volts you still get pretty decent airflow and it is nearly silent.  You can get the 7 volts from your pc powersupply by hooking up to the 12v and 5v lines on the standard 4pin power plug. 

I have two blowing directly over the motherboard (not in a case) letting the air out the vents at the top of the cab. 

[Lilwolf]

I didn't know you can do that.

just plug the 12v on one side and the 5v on the other instead of a ground.  That will give a net of 7v.  I didn't realize it was that easy.

Is it safe?

[elvis]

If you buy a 120mm 12 volt fan and run it at 7 volts you still get pretty decent airflow and it is nearly silent.  You can get the 7 volts from your pc powersupply by hooking up to the 12v and 5v lines on the standard 4pin power plug. 

I have two blowing directly over the motherboard (not in a case) letting the air out the vents at the top of the cab. 

Warning note!

Some fans (not many, but particularly the larger/faster ones) will require 8 to 8.5 volts to actually start spinning.  Once spinning, they can operate on as low as 5V without any dramas, but on rare occasion the 7V trick will not be enough to start these units spinning from stand-still.

Make sure you do plenty of testing with your fans if you are going to use the 7V trick.  And at worst, you may need to chuck a 20c resister in there to slow the fan speed down a little.  Not a terribly expensive mod at all, really.

[TimmyB]

You can also get a fan controller that goes between the power source and the fan.