Cabinet has a little give...should I worry?

[RTSDaddy2]

____________________________________________________

Hey y'all,

When I say that it has a little give, what I mean is that while you play the games via the control panel, IF you push something too hard (a joystick, trackball, etc), it will rock side to side just a little.

My wife, who again has far more experience building things (having grown up on a farm) says she sees no cause for alarm in that little bit of give...but I thought I'd throw it to you guys. Think it's ok, or should I add extra braces, etc?

Thanks!

[PetitMorte]

Well, how much effort would it take to put in a brace or two?  And would that effort be worth it to keep your monitor from falling through the cabinet to the floor?

It never hurts to be careful.

[whammoed]

Is it the cabinet itself that is shifting or is it just because it is not sitting on a level surface.

[RTSDaddy2]

It appears to be the cab that is shifting, but I'm wondering if our floor here in the living room is just unlevel.

Secondly, it wouldn't be any real problem at all to add extra braces if needed.  I have 32" of cabinet space to crawl into at the bottom - this thing's huge (had to be to hold our TV).  So I could do either one. 

[slayj]

I used Lusids plans to build my cab and had the same problem.  I ended up putting extra wood braces and L brackets all over the inside to help stabilize it and its fine now.

[RayB]

Add braces. Any movement which is small now will over time become worse. Best to nip it in the butt now.

[dema]

You can add big L brackets to the corners on the interior of the cabinet. That should eliminate the rocking, if it is the cabinet.

[Havok]

If the actual cabinet is moving, get some safety floor locks, like the kind ovens come with, so they can't tip. I think you can get them at Lowes or Home Depot...

[Jabba]

I used Lusids plans to build my cab and had the same problem.

[RTSDaddy2]

Thanks guys...I'll get a few more brackets and add them not only to the corners, but to a couple of spots in between the existing ones. 

[DrewKaree]

SKIP - YA HEAR ME? - SKIP those chintzy L brackets, as all you're doing is making the edges somewhat sturdier. 

1)  Get yourself a 2x4.  An 8 footer, if need be. 

2)Cut it in half. 

3)Trim it so it just fits inside your cab,  somewhere in the middle, under the monitor area perhaps.  Both pieces (remember, you DID cut it in half, yes?). 

4)Screw into  your 2x4 braces from the OUTSIDE of your cab.

5)Find your favorite seating area (think La-Z-boy)

6)While getting settled, have the wife fetch you a beer.

7)Rest easy.

Problem solved.   

Seriously, it'll go WAY quicker and be more solid that way.  As was said, it flexes now, all that'll happen over time is your screw holes will enlarge with the rocking, the "hold" will get sloppier and sloppier, and soon, your wife will be playing, and it'll fall apart on her.

I'm just trying to save your wife from getting yelled at for destroying all that hard work.  She can e-mail me her thank you later, or just give Pixelhugger all the info he needs when buying my hat for me

Carry on.

[pmc]

Shouldn't his new braces be installed diagnally? I was an engineer in school, but it doesn't seem to be helping me now. 

My cabinet rocks a bit too (left to right). I used 1-2" cleats to hold each panel to the next. It's on 4 casters and has no rear panel. I've always assumed that the lack of a rear panel is what prevented the cabinet from staying square when pushed. I also assume that the casters are not creating the instability (carpeted room and only 1/2-inch clearance anyway). I always expected to add a rear panel or diagnal braces to ensure that the cabinet remains square at all times. No more rocking.

Both my monitor shelf and the floor panel are mounted on 2x4's and they are square and tight. Seems to me that adding more horizontal braces will do little to keep the cab from remaining square. But I'm speculating.

- pmc

[Ed_McCarron]

"I always expected to add a rear panel or diagnal braces to ensure that the cabinet remains square at all times. No more rocking."


Sure, a square back panel or diagonal braces would have the same effect - keeping the sides of the cab perpendicular to the base.


"Both my monitor shelf and the floor panel are mounted on 2x4's and they are square and tight. Seems to me that adding more horizontal braces will do little to keep the cab from remaining square. But I'm speculating."

The horizontal braces would help -minimally-.  Think of a 2x4 mounted with the long side vertical screwed across the cabinet.  If you put 2 screws on each end of the lumber, you've created diagonal vectors inside the lumber - albeit small ones with regards to the vertical.  They'll help a bit, but not much.  I'd think the screws would me more likely to rip thru the cab sides if it rocked too much - very short torque arm in that mode.

Bottom line, I gotta agree with you.  Diagonally or a back panel would be the most stable.

[ahofle]

What's the best way to do a diagonal brace?  My cabinet also rocks a little left to right when 'certain people' play, heh.  I have a horizontal 2x4 under the monitor shelf, and also 2x4s on the bottom, but apparently those aren't enough.

[Ed_McCarron]

What's the best way to do a diagonal brace?  My cabinet also rocks a little left to right when 'certain people' play, heh.  I have a horizontal 2x4 under the monitor shelf, and also 2x4s on the bottom, but apparently those aren't enough.

If it were me and I had to do it?  No back panel, right?

Take 2 diagonal cross braces, half lapped in the middle (think a big "X" with the ends cut to fit to the cabinet sides) and screw/glue/whatever into place.  It's all about the triangles.  Triangles strong, parallelograms weak.

[ahofle]

Ya, no back panel (UAII plans). 
Forgive my ignorance, but are we talking metal braces here?  Or just 2x4s?  And would this be right in the middle of the cab?  I was hoping it wouldn't affect the storage space (i.e. where my PC is sitting) too much.

[RTSDaddy2]

I'll have to try those diagonal braces also. I've got 2 x 4's under the sides of the monitor already, so it wouldn't work to put them there again, I don't suppose. 

(Kudos Drew - left me rolling again! Wife says you'll have to talk about the hat though!  )

[DrewKaree]

Ima need to whip up a diagram.  You SHOULD be slapping a back on there, but I suspect most folks attach it differently. 

I'm figuring since most folks who are having a wobbling problem are having it because of bad thinking (they don't have those engineer friends to tell them the right way to do it ) that throwing a diagonal brace, and then adding a half-lap joint into the mix, is just a surefire recipe for disaster! 

Um...ahofle, think about what you're saying.  You have a horizontal shelf in the middle of the cab, and then essentially another horizontal shelf that the rest of the cab is sitting on. 

If you were to build a piece of furniture, the back is usually used to complete the piece, define storage space of the piece, and help to square the piece.  Once the piece is square, fastening everything down well usually takes care of it.

Best way to avoid wobble?  Look at a bookcase or something (not your cheap particle board ones from Wal-Mart, a decent one!).  The back is set into a rabbet in the back of the piece to square and align everything. 

To get the same effect all quick and dirty like, the back should be fastened ON the edges of the sides, rather than having the back fit INSIDE the edges

Make sense?  I'll make pictures if not.

[ahofle]

Hmmm, sounds like different advice from your 7 step list earlier ('just throw a couple 2x4s under the monitor shelf').  And why are diagonal braces a 'recipe for disaster'?

[Ed_McCarron]

You SHOULD be slapping a back on there, but I suspect most folks attach it differently. 

 that throwing a diagonal brace, and then adding a half-lap joint into the mix, is just a surefire recipe for disaster! 

I agree with the concept that a back is best - it's how my cabs are setup (and my bookshelves, come to think of it)

But I'm confused as to why the pair of diagonal braces is bad?  Are you thinking that the joint would weaken the 2x4?  I've built trailer walls (OK, more like a fence) like this - and they hold up over the road pretty well.

My college statics classes tell me that the x-brace in the back would stop the side to side wobble pretty well - the front, perhaps not, but I'm hoping theres a front installed on his cab to stiffen it up.  With no front stiffener, there'd be some kind of bending moment set up if you rocked that half of the cab, but thats another story all together.

Thoughts?  Its been a while since college, and I can't promise my thinking is sound anymore.   I moved into electronics after school - and all those mechanical classes went out the window.

Drew is a weenie.  Just testing.

[DrewKaree]

But I'm confused as to why the pair of diagonal braces is bad?  Are you thinking that the joint would weaken the 2x4?  I've built trailer walls (OK, more like a fence) like this - and they hold up over the road pretty well.

"bad" is a poor term to use.  The diagonal braces are a good solution for what's presently done, but the way I'm picturing it, you're introducing two angled cuts into the mix that will need to be measured and cut well in order for them to fit.  I'll post a crude picture next to show how I'm interpreting it.  Throwing in a half-lap introduces even MORE woodworking into an equation that is already not satisfactory to the person who produced the initial project.  Even without the half-lap, it will still require angled cuts that may or may not solve the problem.

My college statics classes tell me that the x-brace in the back would stop the side to side wobble pretty well - the front, perhaps not, but I'm hoping theres a front installed on his cab to stiffen it up.  With no front stiffener, there'd be some kind of bending moment set up if you rocked that half of the cab, but thats another story all together.

It's the best (and cheapest) solution.  College or not, that's THE quick and dirty fix right now.  Without introducing any angles into it, I was just thinking throwing two more horizontal braces in there in the back (because I've gotta believe there's a front too, otherwise that accounts for ALL of his slop ) is gonna stiffen it enough to satisfy.

Hmmm, sounds like different advice from your 7 step list earlier ('just throw a couple 2x4s under the monitor shelf'). And why are diagonal braces a 'recipe for disaster'?

My bad on being vague.  I'd split them up, one prolly above the monitor, one below, as most folks are already paranoid about their monitor falling (who could blame ya's since it's prolly one of the more expensive parts and a pain to replace!)  Not an addition to the current monitor shelf, something OTHER than the monitor shelf. 

The monitor shelf itself is already helping to stiffen your cab and keep it from feeling even wobblier (usually - each monitor shelf is different, your mileage may vary) if you've got a "square" frame to set your monitor on, meaning a square made of wood which would fasten to the sides AND the front and back.  That frame is helping to somewhat square your shell. 

Generally, with objects this tall, flex comes from a top corner to a bottom opposite corner, which is why a back to something like this is THE best way to solve it.  The cross braces are the NEXT best, and simple horizontal braces are the least best.  Notice that in the order from worst to least best, they also get progressively more involved.  That is what I meant to imply about a recipe for disaster.  Please, anyone who might think I'm telling you the idea is a waste of time - I didn't intend for it to sound like that. I just think either make the back, and do it right, or if you're worried about a slight wobble, throw in the horizontals.  If it doesn't solve it, you're out $6 and some saw-blade wearage, and you'll want to add a back to solve the problem for good.

(whew, trying to shorten answers was recommended.  I just am not the guy to give it a try.....EVER )

[Ed_McCarron]

that's THE quick and dirty fix right now.

Theres other ways to do things??? 

All I could think was that I missed something fundamental and was about to be responsible for some poor souls cabinet crashing down on his head.

[DrewKaree]

Theres other ways to do things??? 

All I could think was that I missed something fundamental and was about to be responsible for some poor souls cabinet crashing down on his head.

I even forgot to add the pic to show what I'm thinking and why I look at it as a bad idea  Sorry if you thought I meant doing that would be "building a booby trap"   

[DrewKaree]

Here's what I picture when advising an X bracing setup.  The dual angled cuts at each end are even harder than the generic "angle cut it so it rests on the cab side/floor/top.

Does that help explain why personally I think it's inviting trouble instead of adding horizontal braces or a back?  Hopefully it does.  If it were just cutting each end at a 45 of the proper length, if it wobbles, I see it pushing on the cab at one of the weakest points (two joined edges) in a concentrated fashion.  The dual angles kinda spread it out and would have 2 screws in opposing directions, which is why I'm thinking this is what everyone is intending. 

*edit*
I had problems attaching the pic the first time, and the second time it showed up for me.  What gives with the attachments?

[DrewKaree]

Okay, this is easy.

First make a back door.
 

I never made it to the rest of your tips.  That solved it, so I'm on my La-Z-boy waiting for RTSdaddy's wife to fetch me another beer and order my hat

[Havok]

I think as long as there is a little take, you'll be ok.


(Tried not to say it, but it's like holding your breath - eventually it comes out)

 

[RTSDaddy2]

Ok - for the clueless in woodworking, I'd still like to see a pic of some kind (I kept looking for 'em in Drew's posts but never saw one).

It is starting to make sense though....I think I misread a post somewhere because I thought the supports went under the monitor shelf horizontally, and it appears that Drew's talking about them being placed vertically under the shelf, along the back walls.

And to Havok....I think I saw the little take running around the house just the other day.   

[DrewKaree]

Ok - for the clueless in woodworking, I'd still like to see a pic of some kind (I kept looking for 'em in Drew's posts but never saw one).

It finally worked out....I think.  I saw my attachment last time too, and it "disappeared", so hopefully the picture sticks.  Go back up a bit to see what I'm thinking about diagonal braces

It is starting to make sense though....I think I misread a post somewhere because I thought the supports went under the monitor shelf horizontally, and it appears that Drew's talking about them being placed vertically under the shelf, along the back walls.

Ya know, having two verts and a horizontal on the top of 'em will use about the same amount of wood, and will create a semi "frame".  You may have just solved your problem!