CRT vs LCD 70% surfing, working & 30% games which is better

[divemaster127]

CRT vs LCD 70% surfing, working & 30% games which is better.  In the last few years i have been told to stick to CRT for gaming for the best picture, & I have a 6 month old 19" viewsonic with brightness for gaming, i just read another thread about a 20.1 dell lcd & the picture looked great so whats the best monitor for surfing plus lets say World of Warcraft, or what the best bang for my buck
thanks
divemaster

[ChadTower]

IMO, the price point for LCDs is still way too high to move away from CRT, seeing as you can always get a used CRT for free.  I see them constantly.

Free > $300.

[pointdablame]

from a purely "bang for buck" stance, Chad is right, you can definitely find nice CRTs for next to nothing.

If you have the money for an upgrade and are going to buy something anyway, I wouldn't even consider a CRT anymore honestly... but that's me I guess.

If you get a decent LCD, there will be no ghosting or shadow effects, you will have a really great black level, and overall, you will have a screen that compares very favorably to CRTs. My LCD is my primary screen and I game and watch video on it instead of my CRT.

 Just like everything else, a lot of people have a soft spot for CRTs and say that nothign can beat them, but I tend to disagree.

I have a dual monitor setup and stare at a CRT and LCD every day, and find both of them to be excellent screens.  It's more about quality than CRT vs LCD... whatever you get, get a QUALITY monitor, and you'll be in good shape.  If you get a $150 Best Buy special LCD or a $50 no name CRT... then you might notice some differences.

[ChadTower]

I see people trying to give away 17" CRTs every week, 15" every couple of days... a used but still good CRT monitor is easier to get than a newspaper around here.

[pointdablame]

I see people trying to give away 17" CRTs every week, 15" every couple of days... a used but still good CRT monitor is easier to get than a newspaper around here.

yeah, especially if you are known even slightly as a "computer person"  If I took every old desktop and CRT people offered me, I don' think I'd have room for my bed in my bedroom

[joshbr7257]

I have a dual monitor setup and stare at a CRT and LCD every day, and find both of them to be excellent screens.

[pointdablame]

I have a dual monitor setup and stare at a CRT and LCD every day, and find both of them to be excellent screens.  .

im interested in doing that, iv seen many people have two screens set up. but what is it for? why is it needed? does the desktop just stretch across both monitors, or do you have 2 desktops?

You can either have a mirrored image (2 of the same desktop) or one desktop stretched across two screens.  I see no point in Mirrored screens for a normal desktop.

It's not quite "2 desktops" its just one big desktop across two screens.  If you wind up doing it, I HIGHLY recommend a piece of software called "Ultramon"  It is the best dual monitor software IMHO.  You can set seperate resolutions, background images, etc (you can also do this without ultramon tho).  You can also have a seperate taskbar on the second screen, and the normal XP bar on the first.

Most people ask why I do it, and if they use it for a bit, they understand.  I'll never go back personally.

For school, you can write a report on one screen while your research/class notes are on the other.  You can open up two web pages with similar information to bounce between them.  If i'm just web surfing, my main screen has Firefox open while the secondary screen has IM windows and Winamp and stuff like that.  That way I can see everything, but nothing is in the way of my browser.  You can watch a movie while talking to friends on the other screen... or watch some TV episodes and surf the net.

It's also very handy for some applications.  Photo and video editing programs can have all your toolbars and tools on one screen with another screen totally dedicated to the actual image/movie.  You can code on one screen while FAQs or manuals are on the other (handy for me cuz I sucked at my Java class )

I love dual monitors, as this rant probably shows.  If you have any questions, let me know.

[ChadTower]

I'll take a look at Ultramon myself.  I actually tried to get a dual setup in the spring, have a pair of 21" monitors sitting on my desk, two ATI cards in the machine, but never did get them both working.

[joshbr7257]

i think i saw this on attack of the show once. but as your saying all you do is open up two internet windows and then drag one of them to the other screen?

[JB]

I see people trying to give away 17" CRTs every week, 15" every couple of days... a used but still good CRT monitor is easier to get than a newspaper around here.

yeah, especially if you are known even slightly as a "computer person"  If I took every old desktop and CRT people offered me, I don' think I'd have room for my bed in my bedroom

You say that like it's a bad thing.

[NoOne=NBA=]

i think i saw this on attack of the show once. but as your saying all you do is open up two internet windows and then drag one of them to the other screen?

I used to use a dual-monitor rig all the time.
It's really nice for graphics apps because you can set the palettes for the app just onto the second screen, and keep the main one clear.
Alternately, you can have two full windows open in the app at the same time.

Unfortunately, I had to steal the second monitor for other stuff, so I don't have that anymore.

[joshbr7257]

but how do you hook them up? a special video card?

[JB]

but how do you hook them up? a special video card?

That's one way. Though dual-headed video cards are becoming fairly common.

You can also just stick 2 video cards in.

[ChadTower]

You can also just stick 2 video cards in.

That's the approach I never quite got working right.   

[pointdablame]

but how do you hook them up? a special video card?

you can do it one of two ways.

If you have a dual output video card (most newer cards) you simply hook up a monitor to each output, and you're good to go.  In XP, it will work out of the box... you'll just need to mess with a few settings.  You can then install Ultramon and tweak to your liking.

Alternately, if you have a video card with one output, you will need a second video card.  This is a bit more trouble, but not really.  You'll have (probably) an AGP and a PCI video card, each powering a monitor.  IIRC, PCI cards try to take control first, so you may have to play with that a bit.

I haven't used a setup with 2 cards yet, so I can't be a ton of help there.  Dual output cards are the way to go IMHO for pure simplicity.  You could also get a dual output card and a PCI card for triple monitors   which I've considered... but just don't have the desk space for.

As for your other questions, yes, you just drag what you want to the screen you want.  You can still minimize and maximze to one screen, or drag wherever you want.  Also, with Ultramon, you can add buttons to your top bar that will stretch the application across both screens, or pop it to the other screen with one button press. Very handy.. they put them right near the min,max,close buttons, so they are very easy to get to.

Chad - I won't be much help with a dual vid card setup, but Ultramon does a lot of stuff for you, so it just may help.  You may also have to do something in your BIOS to allow PCI video cards??? not sure but it might be worth a look.  Make sure windows sees both screens, and check your display settings.  Make sure your secondary screen is enabled.

[ChadTower]

Chad - I won't be much help with a dual vid card setup, but Ultramon does a lot of stuff for you, so it just may help.

[pointdablame]

Chad - I won't be much help with a dual vid card setup, but Ultramon does a lot of stuff for you, so it just may help.  You may also have to do something in your BIOS to allow PCI video cards??? not sure but it might be worth a look.

I did make the bios change... but all that did was specify which one took control, I didn't find a way to make it use them both.

In my experience, windows won't enable the second monitor until you tell it to.  That might have been it.

[ChadTower]

In my experience, windows won't enable the second monitor until you tell it to.

[quarterback]

its just one big desktop across two screens.

[pointdablame]

Hey pointdablame,

I've got a dual monitor setup on my editing workstation but I use the ATI untility that was included with my dual-headed video card.   I remember it took me a while to get it up and working, but now it's good to go.  Honestly, I'm a little leery about messing with it, because it's working now. But, how much 'better' is "Ultramon" than everything else?  You think it would be worth my while?

Thanks
qb

Well, in theory, Ultramon isn't really much more than an 'updated' form of the ATI utility or Windows Display Properties.  Changes made within Ultramon affect the windows display properties, so by installing it, you should still be up and running with no problems since it should use the settings you already have set.

If all you want is two screens, then you don't need Ultramon. Really you never "need" Ultramon, it just has a lot of nice features I enjoy.  It brings all your options to a taskbar icon.  You can set up different profiles for different times (gaming, work, browsing, etc) which will automatically change your resolution and preferences for those situations.  You can add and remove those buttons I mentioned to span two screens and pop to the other screen.  You can add a task bar to your second display and tell it to be independent or a mirror of the normal task bar.  There are just a lot of nice little tweaks that are very easily controlled because of Ultramon.

It is very simple to set up screensavers and backgrounds independently in Ultramon.  Again, you can do this without Ultramon, but it's just very handy.  You can disable screens with a mouse click, make shortcuts, etc.

I'd say its worth a shot.  I doubt very much it'll mess with your current setup, and you just might find it useful.  If not, uninstalling it doesn't affect any previous settings either to my knowledge, so you won't break anything.

[pointdablame]

I should just stop ranting.

http://www.realtimesoft.com/ultramon/

Anyone interested should read the features and overview pages on Ultramon's site.  They have good pictures and descriptions.  If any of it seems useful, give it a shot.

[joshbr7257]

so you use something like this:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814161101

[Excretious]

I havnt seen anyone point out the fact that theres usually a video out on the motherboard.

[quarterback]

I havnt seen anyone point out the fact that theres usually a video out on the motherboard.

[joshbr7257]

I havnt seen anyone point out the fact that theres usually a video out on the motherboard.

[pointdablame]

I havnt seen anyone point out the fact that theres usually a video out on the motherboard.  So theres your two video outs right there, motherboard and video card.

No there isn't.  Only motherboards with onboard video will have a monitor output, and that is certainly not "the norm"  Most higher end boards won't have onboard video, and the only place they are pretty common are smaller form-factor motherboards so that you can have the most possible on one board (on board sound, lan, video, etc etc).  I wouldn't count on there being a monitor output on probably 75% or more of motherboards.

Also I don't know your personal knowledge of computers, but you might be thinking of a gameport which if glanced at quickly or seen by someone not very familiar with computers might be mistaken for a VGA port... I've had people say that to me before.

Josh - yes that is a dual output card.  The card I use is different, but that is what you are looking for.  As long as it is dual output you are ok.  You can get 2 VGA, 1 VGA and 1 DVI, or 2 DVI outputs depending on the card.  Don't be afraid of a DVI card either if your monitor is VGA... an adapter usually comes with the card to convert it to VGA.

[Excretious]

Ive got four computers in front of me right now.  A Dell Dimension 2400, a Gateway PentiumIII, an old compaq Emachine, and a custom built rig with an Asus p4c800 motherboard. 

The Dell Gateway and Compaq all have Monitor outs (VGA connector) right on the motherboard but the asus dosnt.   

I just figured if Dell Gateway and Compaq were putting onboard video on their more popular home/office computers, then that was probably the norm.

[DaveMMR]

 I HIGHLY recommend a piece of software called "Ultramon"  It is the best dual monitor software IMHO. 

I wish I heard of that before I disconnected my two monitor setup.

I liked the dual monitor config at first, but since the second monitor is off-center from my sitting position (the desk won't allow me to move the chair anywhere else), it proved ineffectual.

[ChadTower]

Ive got four computers in front of me right now.

[pointdablame]

Ive got four computers in front of me right now.  A Dell Dimension 2400, a Gateway PentiumIII, an old compaq Emachine, and a custom built rig with an Asus p4c800 motherboard. 

The Dell Gateway and Compaq all have Monitor outs (VGA connector) right on the motherboard but the asus dosnt.   

I just figured if Dell Gateway and Compaq were putting onboard video on their more popular home/office computers, then that was probably the norm.

You're looking at that the wrong way.  Dell and Gateway do it so they can save money.  Onboard video is cheaper to implement than a stand alone video card, and it is also going to be a lot less powerful than an "average" video card at the time its released.  The 2400 was a low end Dell model, and the others sound older, when this was a bit more common.  I have 7 systems running in my house right now, and a few others not currently connected, and I can only think of one system that might have onboard video... and I'm not even sure about that.  Even newer Dells and Gateways don't have it anymore... unless you are getting the bottom of the barrel model.

Onboard video can also die by itself, and can affect the motherboard on rare occasions as well... even the big companies now realize it's easier to put in a stand alone card.

As I said, you can certainly still find mobo's with onboard video, but to say it as though every computer has it in very misleading.

[ahofle]

Back to the topic of the original poster (CRT vs LCD)....Have there been any recent changes in LCD 'refresh' speeds?  Last time I played a game on one at my friend's house, the picture was very blurry when the entire screen scrolls (pretty much all the time in first person shooters).  You could also see the effect by dragging a window *slowly* from left to right.  You get a blurriness with the LCD, but with a CRT it's very smooth.  I'm just curious if this has been improved to the point of not being able to tell the difference (I think they call this 'latency' on LCDs instead of refresh).  It's the one thing preventing me from getting one.

[pointdablame]

Back to the topic of the original poster (CRT vs LCD)....Have there been any recent changes in LCD 'refresh' speeds?  Last time I played a game on one at my friend's house, the picture was very blurry when the entire screen scrolls (pretty much all the time in first person shooters).  You could also see the effect by dragging a window *slowly* from left to right.  You get a blurriness with the LCD, but with a CRT it's very smooth.  I'm just curious if this has been improved to the point of not being able to tell the difference (I think they call this 'latency' on LCDs instead of refresh).  It's the one thing preventing me from getting one.

Read my first reply.. I've already mentioned this

Newer LCDs have NO PROBLEM with games.  When LCD's had refresh rates of 25ms+, there were often ghosting issues (the blurriness you talk about).

If you get yourself a 16ms or 12ms LCD from a quality manufacturer, you will NOT see ghosting... I can almost guarantee it.  My Dell 1800fp is actually a 25ms LCD, but has zero ghosting.   When it was first released, it was a bit of an odd duck because of this... no one undesrtood why it did so good with games, but it did.. and it does

Basically any decent LCD you'll find these days will be under 20ms.  Read a few reviews on the particular model you are looking at, but gaming on LCDs is not a problem anymore... it hasn't been for years.

[ahofle]

Ah thx.   Specific latency numbers help (I didn't have a clue what was good enough to eliminate the blurriness).  And some people don't even notice it (like my friend).

[Flack]

I run two monitors on my home PC. Well, not exactly two monitors. I run my onboard video out to a monitor, and then I added another videocard with TV out that runs out to my projector for watching movies and playing games on. Works great! Like others have said, I can just simply drag Media Player or PowerDVD over to the second screen, full screen it, and voila, works great. Occasionally I'll drag WinAmp over there and just have the video plugins playing on the wall. I'm bored a lot.

Also, the LCD is true, the newer the faster refresh rate you'll have and the better it'll look. Even the ones at Wal-Mart now are 15/10ms. If the ad doesn't list the refresh rate ... look out.

And by the way, I'm also a member of the old monitor orphanage. I threw away all the 15" ones and still have a pile of 17" and 21" monitors lying around.

[u_rebelscum]

I'm just curious if this has been improved to the point of not being able to tell the difference (I think they call this 'latency' on LCDs instead of refresh).  It's the one thing preventing me from getting one.

Newer LCDs have NO PROBLEM with games.  When LCD's had refresh rates of 25ms+, there were often ghosting issues (the blurriness you talk about). .... but gaming on LCDs is not a problem anymore... it hasn't been for years.

As I posted in an other thread, this is almost true for everyone.  Some poeple, however, still see ghosting on 12 and even 8 ms LCDs.  This depends on the person.

Saying "Newer LCDs have NO PROBLEM with games", IMO, is an overgeneralization.

My 16ms LCD at work is not fast enough for me for gaming.  So ahofle, be sure to check how the exact model looks to you before buying.  Much like buying CRTs, cars, and beds.

[ChadTower]

Look at it this way.  You're spending $300-400.  Expect $300-400 quality.  You're not spending $2500, so don't expect perfection.

[pointdablame]

Look at it this way.  You're spending $300-400.  Expect $300-400 quality.  You're not spending $2500, so don't expect perfection.

That's a good way to put it, although really $300-400 is sufficient to get a great monitor for MOST PEOPLE.

U_Rebel is right, it won't be great for every single person, but most people will see great results in that price range if you check reviews.   And obviously with a monitor, you need to try it yourself.. no way around that.

For 9 out of 10 people, you don't need to spend anywhere near $2500 to get a great monitor... LCD or otherwise.