Hacked DreamCast Pad Problem! (Keywiz Max)

[DreamWeb]

Ok folks.. here's my problem.  And the solution may be simple.. or, it could possibly be the most infuriating thing ever.

I have my cab playing perfectly these days.  So, I decided it was time to break it.

I ordered a couple of hacked dreamcast pads a couple months ago.. and just got around to installing the first one today.

I turned on my dreamcast... and nothing.  So, I turned on my computer as well and it worked.  So, I figured it had something to do with the ground wire and the keywiz max or something.

I could live with that.. (having to keep my computer on while playing the Dreamcast)

Then I turned off the dreamcast and decided to play some street fighter 2.  WEll.. guess what..  the controls would not work until I turned on the Dreamcast.. ugh!!  And even then.. not all the buttons would work.

I'm sure to some you'll be thinking (well.. duh.. of course)  But, this is something that is beyond my mind to fix.  Anyone have any suggestions?  Or .. am I screwed?

Thanks!

David

[pmc]

How did you wire everything up? I don't think that you should mix the DC wiring with the PC/KeyWiz wiring (unless the KeyWiz has some sort of support for console controllers -- I don't have one and don't know). You are probably sharing grounds between the PC and Dreamcast.

Mine is wired to the Dreamcast when I want to play that, or I unplug the CP and then plug it into an IPAC to play MAME. The wiring between the IPAC and the Dreamcast never meet. Never a problem.

-pmc

[DreamWeb]

Ok.  I'm confused.

Right now I have all the wires from the dreamcast controller hooked up to the same joystick and buttons that are hooked up to my Keywiz Max.  So, yes, they share buttons/joysticks/and a ground.

I'm a little confused as to how I can hook this up differently... apart from having two different CP's.  (is that what I have to do?  If so..  ugh.. I'm screwed!)

Thanks!

d.

[pmc]

Well if you have the DC and the PC on at the same time, you are tying both systems together electrically. Try disconnecting the PC from the KeyWiz.

I'm not positive, but I think that the PS/2 connector provides 5V to power the KeyWiz. I wouldn't want that juice to affect the DC.

Lotsa guys wire thru a switch so you can just switch from KeyWiz to DC and not have each device "see" each other at all.

If you need them tied all together, someone here is likely to be able to speak to how to do it properly and safely.

-pmc

[DreamWeb]

I've got a feeling that if I had another way to ground the DreamCast pad... that it would all work fine.  Does this sound like a solution?  And if so.. how would I go about grounding it (apart from sharing grounds with my Keywiz Max)?

d.

[SteveJ34]

How is the ground from the dreamcast controller connected to the joy and buttons?

[pmc]

I've got a feeling that if I had another way to ground the DreamCast pad... that it would all work fine.  Does this sound like a solution?  And if so.. how would I go about grounding it (apart from sharing grounds with my Keywiz Max)?

d.

Assuming the ground is the only issue... mine has the same ground loop for both the DC controller and the IPAC -- a daisy-chained ground loop that goes from button to button on the CP and then terminates on the controller or keyboard encoder. I suppose you could make the CP ground wire "switchable" by putting in a male/female spade connector or something. Then just swap the ground from KeyWiz to DC controller and you are good to go.

-pmc

[DreamWeb]

I tried hooking the ground from the dreamcast pad up to a ground for one of the buttons.

Then I tried hooking the ground directly into the ground on the keywizMax.

Hmmm...  I'm sure there must be lots of people with a similar setup who have figured out a good solution.

d.

[pmc]

I'm thinking that the KeyWiz, powered or not, does not help matters by being in the Dreamcast controller circuit and suggest that you use a switchbox to switch your control panel between the KeyWiz and the Dreamcast.

-pmc

[pointdablame]

Your best and safest bet would be to wire the controls to a switch box as mentioned.  People have used Cat5, or DB25 connectors, or just molex connectors... but you're going to want to seperate those controls.  Wire them into some sort of switch box so that a change of system will only require a turn of the switch from A to B (PC to DC, or vice versa)

[DreamWeb]

OK.  That sounds great.  But, really, I have no idea how that would look or how to go about doing it.  Is there a tutorial around somewhere?

Just wiriing the CP was a stretch for me!

David

[pointdablame]

I'm sure there are some tutorials, but I don't know of any offhand.

Basically it comes down to the pinout of whatever connector you decide to use.  Let's say you use DB25 connectors.... You'd have the pinout for that connector.  Each pin would correspond to one control... so pin1 might be joystick left or something.  You'd wire your Keywiz joystick left to pin 1.  Wire up the Dreamcast joy left to pin1 of another connector.  Do that for every control and you'll have 2 identical connectors with the same pinouts... one for mame and one for dreamcast.

Now you plug those two into a switchbox.  You then have one connector come OUT of the box and to your actual controls.... just mimic the same pinout (pin1 is joy left, etc), and all you'll have to do is turn the switch from A to B.  I hope that makes sense.


EDIT: Take a look at this pic: http://www.connecttech.net/product_info.php?products_id=1600

You'd have the Keywiz on the bottom right, Dreamcast on the bottom left, and controls on top.  And out of each connector you'd have bare wires (not another DB25) that would go straight to either the keywiz/hacked pad/or control.
So you'll have wired up THREE connectors... one for the Keywiz, one for the Dreamcast, and one to connect to the actual controls.

[DreamWeb]

Ok!  I think I'm starting to get the picture.  I'll read these posts again once I get home in order to try to fully understand!

Would a place like Radio Shack or Cirtcuit City have a switch box/connector for this king of thing?  Even seeing photos of these would probably help.

Thanks!

David

[DreamWeb]

Hey again!

Thanks again for your help.  I think I'm starting to understand this.

Here's my question now... If I decide to go for Molex connections..  Ideally I'd use 2.  1 for each player.  The problem is.. is that I have 16 inputs on player 1, and 17 Inputs on the Player 2 side.  Are there molex  connectors that have more than 15 inputs?  Would I be better off using a db25 connection.. and would it work exactly the same way?

So.. just to anchor this.  I would need one female for each of the players controls.  2 Males for each dreamcast joystick.  and 2 males for the Keywiz.

Does that sound about right?

thanks!

d.

[Tiger-Heli]

Ok!  I think I'm starting to get the picture.  I'll read these posts again once I get home in order to try to fully understand!

Would a place like Radio Shack or Cirtcuit City have a switch box/connector for this king of thing?  Even seeing photos of these would probably help.

Thanks!

David

Lots of people have had good luck hacking an RS-232 printer switchbox like this one -

http://www.mycableshop.com/sku/DS252.htm  (Just a link from google, might be cheaper elsewhere)

[pointdablame]

Hey again!

Thanks again for your help.  I think I'm starting to understand this.

Here's my question now... If I decide to go for Molex connections..  Ideally I'd use 2.  1 for each player.  The problem is.. is that I have 16 inputs on player 1, and 17 Inputs on the Player 2 side.  Are there molex  connectors that have more than 15 inputs?  Would I be better off using a db25 connection.. and would it work exactly the same way?

So.. just to anchor this.  I would need one female for each of the players controls.  2 Males for each dreamcast joystick.  and 2 males for the Keywiz.

Does that sound about right?

thanks!

d.

It's my understanding that you only need connectors to go to the switchbox.   The box Tiger-Heli links too has female connectors on the box, so you would only need 3 male connectors.  You would have regular wires coming from the keywiz, the dreamcast pads, and the controls.  The ends of these wires would be connected to a male plug, and then put into the switch box.  You could put another connector in line with this if you wanted to be able to disconnect them for some reason but I'm not sure if that would really be worth it. 

I'll draw up a crappy Paint diagram in a second, and then hopefully someone else can double check that my thinking is correct.

My diagram is below... that is how I understand it, and how I belive it's been done before.  Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

[Goz]

Awesome pic

-Goz

[pointdablame]

Awesome pic

-Goz

 

My art skill is pretty much unmatched by anyone on the planet.  If you want sideart made, let me know.

 

[DreamWeb]

That's a great diagram.!  I'm going to run out and buy some DB25's this evening.

By the way... you should have said..

"I spent like three hours doing shading on the upper connector. It's probably the best drawing I've ever done. "  GOSH!

[DreamWeb]

Hey guys!  Thanks for all your help again.

Last question.  I'm going to give this a go tonight if I can find the connectors.  MY question is..  how do I ground the dreamcast..?  The Keywiz has a ground right on it.. so I just daisy chain all the componenty and then attach it to that.  No problem.  But the Dreamcast?

Thanks!

[pointdablame]

That's a great diagram.!  I'm going to run out and buy some DB25's this evening.

By the way... you should have said..

"I spent like three hours doing shading on the upper connector. It's probably the best drawing I've ever done. "  GOSH!

You mean it wasn't OBVIOUS that I was doing shading for hours?!?!?!

As for the grounding, it was my understanding that the Dreamcast pad had a ground on it as well??? I guess I could be wrong.

[DreamWeb]

Yes, the DC pad does have a ground wire on it.  But where do I attach that ground?

My arcade controls all have a ground.. that go attached to the Keywiz.  But, obviously I can't attach the DC ground to the keywiz.

Thanks!

[pmc]

Yes, the DC pad does have a ground wire on it.