********* EXPLOSIONS IN LONDON ********

[Dexter]

I think by US FUNDED you mean John Lennon....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/649397.stm

Hmm, from a secret service operative? MK ultra anyone??

Like other famous people who spoke of peace, Lennon was taken out by the secret service.

Anyoo, drifted a bit off topic. Figures revised to 33 dead....

08:51 Seven people die in a blast on a train 100 yards from Liverpool Street station
08:56 21 people die in a blast on a train between Russell Square and King's Cross stations
09:17 Five people die in blast on a train at Edgware Road station
09:47 An unknown number die in a blast on a bus at Tavistock Place.

The figure of 33 does not include possible fatalities from the bus blast.

[mr.Curmudgeon]

then the only obvious choice left is to implement my global bar coding and cranial identification implant program....

Hmmm....veeeery interesting.  You first!   


mrC

[shmokes]

Democrats started this. That SO rocks.

Um...the Maktab al-Khadamat, the mujahidin group that was fighting Soviets in Afghanistan (partially funded by the CIA), was founded in 1984.  These are the guys you are talking about who later became Al Qaeda.  Jimmy Carter left office in 1981. 

And if I'm not mistaken George H. W. Bush was head of the CIA when Jimmy Carter WAS president.

That SO rocks.   

[mr.Curmudgeon]

Before this thread gets too political (because of myself included), I want to say to any Londoners here, my heart and thoughts are with you. May wisdom and resolve, not vengeance and anger, guide your nation in the coming days.

Stay safe, be vigilant.

mrC

[DYNAGOD]

the british public arent going to be as shy as we are about dealing with this kind of stuff on the homefront..
theres going to be alot of mosques burning in england tonite

[RayB]

We have to wonder, would this sort of thing happen at all if western nations stayed out of middle-eastern affairs in general?

[mr.Curmudgeon]

the british public arent going to be as shy as we are about dealing with this kind of stuff on the homefront..
theres going to be alot of mosques burning in england tonite

Please tell me you are joking? Burning mosques?   

[mr.Curmudgeon]

We have to wonder, would this sort of thing happen at all if western nations stayed out of middle-eastern affairs in general?

No idea. Below, is a link to the terrorist's statement regarding these latest attacks in London. They are claiming it is in retaliating for atrocities committed in Iraq. Interesting since Britain has just recently announced (before the attacks) they are pulling their troops out of Iraq over the next 18 months and sending them to Afghanistan (since that country is slipping back into chaos). This plan had a few standards that needed to be met, but I wonder how this will latest attack will effect that decision all together.

Terrorist's Statement


mrC

[Shape D.]

We have to wonder, would this sort of thing happen at all if western nations stayed out of middle-eastern affairs in general?

We can't.  The US is currently too dependent on their oil. which will always cause the US to meddle in their affairs economically and politically.

[Dartful Dodger]

We have to wonder, would this sort of thing happen at all if western nations stayed out of middle-eastern affairs in general?

The IRA have been this sort of thing long before the middle east affairs.

[ChadTower]

They'll get French takeout and head to the dentist.   

[mr.Curmudgeon]

So if YOU were going to put a barrier between Syria and Iran...where would YOU put it?

Not for nothing, but Saddam's Iraq was a pretty serious barrier between Syria and Iran. Hussein had his borders sealed up pretty tight, and no one moved around without expressed permission from the Baathists. Iran was his mortal enemy, and Al Qaeda despised his secularism. Iraq was one of the most progressive secular states in the middle east before we attacked it. However, religious extremists and terrorists seem to be running wild throughout the country now. There has been a rash of "acid attacks" on unveiled women, and leading clerics in the country are expressing a further desire to return to a more fundamentalist law.

Furthermore, now that we've sort of created this power vaccum in the region, it looks like we're on track to creating a Islamic Anti-Western "Super State", if this latest headline from the BBC is to be believed, "Iranians to train Iraq's military."

All together, I'd say it looks like we could have saved 300+ billion and countless lives had we just left things as they were, if a barrier between Syria and Iran was the ultimate goal, as you suggest.

But I digress.
mrC

[RayB]

We can't.

[mrhowell]

Does anyone believe the "If we left them alone they would leave us alone" theory?  When you

[mr.Curmudgeon]

Does anyone believe the "If we left them alone they would leave us alone" theory?

I don't know any people on the left who'd sanction that. I *do*, however, think the "pro-war" types have successfully framed any dissent on Iraq, or disagreement with Bush's "doctrine" as tantamount to "just leaving them alone" or using the "do nothing approach", even though this couldn't be further from the truth. I'll explain below.

It

[nobody]

The IRA have been this sort of thing long before the middle east affairs.

with one important difference, the IRA never attacked the tube becuase they felt it would kill too many people and consolidate oposition to them.

anyway, i live in london close to wear all the bombs happened. Was pretty mad, most of the teachers flipped out as there was a school trip to cambridge that was due to leave kings cross shortly after the blast there but they arrived in time to see people come out of the tunnels with bandages so it was ok. So far 37 dead with 45 in a serious condition so its not that bad, could have been alot worse but the emergency services were well prepared. All in all its not that bad, the odd idiot panicing but for the most part it will be life as normal 

[rchadd]

it's more like the (US funded) IRA attrocities of the past in Ireland and UK mainland.

Brits will just get on with it...without starting to look for sympathy from around the world and start jumping up and down in hysteria and looking for a fight

I think by US FUNDED you mean John Lennon....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/649397.stm

no i mean the collections made in the irish pubs of new york  during 80s & 90s to buy weapons and explosives to aid the "struggles" back "home"

[monkeybomb]

it's more like the (US funded) IRA attrocities of the past in Ireland and UK mainland.

Brits will just get on with it...without starting to look for sympathy from around the world and start jumping up and down in hysteria and looking for a fight

I think by US FUNDED you mean John Lennon....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/649397.stm

no i mean the collections made in the irish pubs of new york  during 80s & 90s to buy weapons and explosives to aid the "struggles" back "home"

WOW, to you that means "US funded"?

[Fat_Trucker]

I was delivering beer in London all day today. The emergency response was absolutely first class and ensured that it didn't turn into a major catastrophe. Just a few roads closed although the cessation of trains and buses for several hours was a pain for commuters.

The outstanding factor in this tragedy is just how little impact this action has had on the people who live and work in London. There was very little panic or hysteria and the general feeling about the city was one of quiet dignity and resolve. People have been expecting an attack for some time and I think were quite surprised at the small stature of this one. Many of the people I spoke to today expressed their expectation that there would be more throughout the day and had a kind of 'is that really it?' attitude.

Perhaps its because we all grew accustomed to these atrocities from the IRA, perhaps its because we are all a little desensitised to this kind of 'terror' now but I guarantee it will be very much business as usual tomorrow.

All of our crews with city work tomorrow have been given the option not to do it and not a single person has refused.

[Dartful Dodger]

no i mean the collections made in the irish pubs of new york

[ChadTower]

What isn't US funded?  I mean, really... we can pay billions to try and stop people in Africa from spreading a social disease, we can send hundreds of millions to help rebuild after the tsunamis, we can send trillions around the globe every year in foreign 'aid'... why can't we fund some militants as well?  Suddenly people are all picky and choosy about where the dollar goes?

[shmokes]

Because the return on investment turned out to be somewhat undesirable.

[Dartful Dodger]

What isn't US funded?

[mr.Curmudgeon]

The outstanding factor in this tragedy is just how little impact this action has had on the people who live and work in London. There was very little panic or hysteria and the general feeling about the city was one of quiet dignity and resolve. People have been expecting an attack for some time and I think were quite surprised at the small stature of this one. Many of the people I spoke to today expressed their expectation that there would be more throughout the day and had a kind of 'is that really it?' attitude.

This kind of attitude is exactly what the terrorists DO NOT WANT. They want London to tremble in fear and for it's leaders to make rash and vengeful decisions.

In contrast, here in the U.S., a small plane recently got within 3 miles of the W.H. and the entirety of the capitol ran screaming from the buildings, the Vice President and President's Wife were hidden in an underground bunker. It really goes to show you much terrorism has been used to instill fear in the masses here.

mrC

[AlanS17]

Well sadly, the UK has had practice dealing with terrorism.

The US is easily frightened because they've seperated from the rest of the world on both sides by oceans. Aside from a couple wars long ago, the US hasn't seen war on its own soil. The technology capable of mass destruction hasn't been used inside the US (until 9/11).

The US always takes the war somewhere else. But the people at home aren't used to seeing stuff blow up in front of them. The UK has seen a couple of world wars first hand, and has been dealing with the IRA for a long time now. They've got practice.

[monkeybomb]

The rules are simple:

When some people in the US send money to support the victims of a disaster like a tsunami, it's pooled with other countries and considered a charity funded by a united world cause.  When some people in the US send money to support death and hatred, it's considered US funded.

Exactly!

But it sounds like some Irish people were donating who were just in America and not just Americans.  US funded means tax money, period.  If it means any monetary exchange in the US, then my lunch was US funded as well.

[rchadd]

The rules are simple:

When some people in the US send money to support the victims of a disaster like a tsunami, it's pooled with other countries and considered a charity funded by a united world cause.

[markrvp]

The rules are simple:

When some people in the US send money to support the victims of a disaster like a tsunami, it's pooled with other countries and considered a charity funded by a united world cause.

[rchadd]

The rules are simple:

When some people in the US send money to support the victims of a disaster like a tsunami, it's pooled with other countries and considered a charity funded by a united world cause.

[monkeybomb]

i think majority of contributions for the IRA fighting funds were made by americans with irish ancestry.

Were all the people giving money American born.  I got the feeling that it was mixed, maybe my mistake. 

please clarify are "Irish Americans" irish or american? american i think

That's kind of my point, it really depends on if they are doing something good or bad, then people decide at the time.  This is an issue for every country represented in America.  I'm in a pretty diverse city, L.A.  and people claim what is convinent at the time and tend to have major contradictions in the belief system when you grill them on it.  My personal belief is that you are either American or not.

Either way US funded means government involvement.  Otherwise every echange of curency in or by Americans is US funded.  My understanding was that a good deal of al queda money came from similar fund raisers, just with a different group.  So are the actions of al queda US funded too.  And how about the lunch I  spoke of.  I am an American, I paid for it- so was my lunch US funded or not?

[Arcadiac]

Condolences to anyone reading who lost someone or was personally affected
by today's terrorist bombings.   

ARCADIAC!

[dema]

I want to offer my best wishes to all those in London, especially those who have been directly affected by the attacks. You guys all stood by us when we were hurting and I know we'll do the same for you.

Regardless of the number of casualties, this is still a horrible attack and something that will stay in the minds of every commuter and innocent civilian living in England. Don't diminish what has happened to them or what they are going through because the number isn't as high as other attacks in NY or Madrid, etc. The English are one of our tightest allies and I wish them all the best in this frightening and painful time. Know that whatever you decide the US is more than willing to help any way we can.

[AndyWarne]

Perhaps its because we all grew accustomed to these atrocities from the IRA, perhaps its because we are all a little desensitised to this kind of 'terror' now but I guarantee it will be very much business as usual tomorrow.

All of our crews with city work tomorrow have been given the option not to do it and not a single person has refused.

Absolutely. It will be difficult for people outside of London to appreciate just how quickly things will get back to normal. We are used to it, sadly. Although there have been no incidents for a while until yesterday, we have all been through this many times before. I have been within earshot of two IRA bombs go off in the past and everyone who has lived here for a number of years has their own stories.
In fact the IRA Bishposgate bomb was far more devastating than any of yesterdays attacks and the damage inflicted by that bomb was enormous.

[Dexter]

Was just watching Sky News while I was getting ready for work. Londons taken it on the chin and gone back to business as usual. Fair play!