Another 4p CP to critique

[Ldsfunaz]

Well Here is my first attempt at my control panel..
I will be using Tstick Plus's for 1p and 2p.

[nickbuol]

Here's what I've learned from others...

Dump the 3 "mouse" buttons for the trackball, or hide them under the bottom of the control panel for when (if) you need to use the trackball as a mouse.

Get rid of, or move to a hidden location all of the MAME (or other Emu) buttons at the top of the CP. 

These 2 will help give it a more clean look.

Do you really need a "Q-bert" joystick?  Seems like a dedicated stick for one game.  Maybe you do, not my decision, I am just bringing up something to think about.

I've read somewhere on these forums that you can use some code to make an 8 way "think" that it is in Q-Bert orientation as a 4 way, and then use the same code to turn it back into a regular "4 way".  Not sure how well that works, but then it would be more of a 4 way for Pac Man, Donkey Kong, and all of those games, and it will also, with a little help from software, work with Q-Bert.

[hulkster]

i have a 4p cp, and i opted not to put in a dedicated 4 way.  i know you may not want to build another cab, but if you are building a 4 player panel, why use it for 4way controlled games?  build a dedicated classics cab if you are wanting to play pacman, frogger, etc.  just my opinion, but thats what i plan on doing. 

anyway, for the trackball situation, i got rid of the mouse buttons on my cp and i just use player 1's first couple of buttons for mouse buttons.  for the frontend buttons at the top, i just used two, pause and escape.  the save and load features are cool, but how many time will  you use those?  i found that i only used those in certain games in rare occasions, so i just keep my keyboard handy for that. 

[Ldsfunaz]

good suggestions but i have my rebuttals..

I only have the 3 mouse buttons because i saw some one post about using them in games that use a spinner and buttons

I like the admin buttons on the top.

[Lilwolf]

Consider having player 1 joystick be a happs 49 way with the GP49.  That will give you 4way joystick + qbert + 49way + analogish.  Seems like the best all around joystick....

Then after that...

Consider hotswappable control panels that are all small and simple and too the point.  Once you can do it you can always add more later (like find a good price on a defender joystick?)

After that...

build a prototype (even if its on cardboard without the controls) to size.  And try using all the components without touching the others.  You can get pressboard for about 4 bucks for a 4x8 sheet.  Then cut everything quickly and place it.  Sure the wiring sucks, but you don't actually need it plugged in (or all of them plugged in) to test.

you will not like the spinner / qbert joysticks if you have to rest your arm on buttons.  You have to be able to move a few inches (4-6) on each side of a trackball to really get a swing going (but only for some games... I use mine 95% of the time for centipede which doesn't have this problem). 

Next... dedicated 4 way is a lot more useful then a dedicated qbert.  But both are nice.  I have a control panel withc is a 4way, then asteroids buttons, then a qbert 4way.  The combo classic control panel is very nice and works for a ton of games.  But I use that 4way 50 times more then the qbert.  Thats for qberts and congobongo only.


Good luck

[Ldsfunaz]

wow, you guys really like to give some good suggestions. 

I would like some more room for the track ball because I will mainly be playing golf with it.  but i also don't want the two players on each side to be too cramped....

I (think) i have settled with the T stick plus's because of the short throw and the 8 way 4 way switching.  Because of the plates i am hoping that the 4 way is near perfect for 4 way games..

That is another reason why i don't see a true "need" for a dedicated 4 way.  Let me list what this cab will be used for in order.

1: 1 or 2 players Fighthing games (SF II)

2: 4 player games (tmnt, xmen, gauntlet's, D&D)

3: Golden Tee/Bowling

4: 1p old school games

5: Gun games(hopefully)


hope this helps with your critiques

[hulkster]

yeah, my cab is a showcase cab...click on my website to see ...and i wanted the extra room for plenty of elbow room for 4 players, and enough room in front for golden tee golf/tiger woods/etc.  not saying you have to build a showcase cab to accomplish all that, but if your control panel gets to be too big, your 3rd and 4th players are going to be looking more at the side of the cab than the screen.  with a showcase, everyone gets to see it fine.

[madk]

You are definately going to want to angle your 3p and 4p sticks and buttons.  Playing with that angle will not be comfy.

[Ldsfunaz]

hulkster,  I have viewed your cab many a time and I really like what you have done.  I have a 35 inch TV in my room and if i decide to use that in the cab then i will be switching to a showcase style.  otherwise i will go out and buy a 27 inch TV for cheap. 

madk,  I was thinking about angling the buttons but I am pretty certain I am going to keep all the sticks at the same angle, up is up.

[hulkster]

oh dude, if you have the 35" that you are putting in, that would be sweet in a showcase style cab.  make sure that it has s-video though!  plus, if you put a 35" tv in a regular style cab, you will go blind the first time you play street fighter. 

[Ldsfunaz]

hulk, I'm probably not gonna go with a showcase, ill probably just put a 27 inch in a stand up, but if i do go showcase ill use the 35 incher with s video and even component(which i am leaning towards)

also, did you mount your 3p and 4p sticks with up being straight up, the same as 1p and 2p, from the under side of your control panel it looks that way

[hulkster]

yeah, i asked a bunch of questions on that angled joystick thing a long time ago.  the joysticks are mounted so that up for all 4 players is the same direction.  if you mount it the other way(angled) with  your other players, and try to move left, its all weird.  so just go with the straight forward approach.

the showcase cab style is really cool though dude, gives you lots of room...provided you have it.  but this is my second cab so i wouldnt build a showcase first time around.  my next cab will be a small 1, maybe 2 player classics cab with only about 100 games or so on it.

[Ldsfunaz]

check out my version 2 of the cp above

[hulkster]

i dont know man, thats a lot of buttons.  i wasnt going for authentic when i did mine either, but too many buttons and controls make it cluttered.  thats just my opinion, but im sure if ask others that have much more experience than i do with these control panels, they will tell you the same thing.  stay as simple as possible, but if you must have a certain type of control, then go for it...but stay simple.

[Dagg]

Keep in mind SNES had 8 buttons 4 on the pad 1L 1R and also start and select but you can prolly map start and select to those extra admin buttons.

overall I like it.  Personally I would hide the admin buttons and ditch the Qbert stick.

[Ldsfunaz]

Keep in mind SNES had 8 buttons 4 on the pad 1L 1R and also start and select but you can prolly map start and select to those extra admin buttons.

overall I like it.

[Ldsfunaz]

hulkster,   how is playing pinball with an overhang on the side?

I'm thinking of not having any overhang on my cp,  mainly for comfort when resting palms on the cp when playing pinball. 

also, is your cp angled or anything.  I'm trying to figure out how i should angle mine.  Because it has that 6 sided shape i think it may be easier to make the cp flat, and just angle the place on the cabinet that it sits on.   

I got my ideas all put together , its just the little stuff that I'm having trouble with...the book helped with a lot of the little things, but it cant cover everything.

[quarterstringer]

I'm trying to figure out how i should angle mine.

[markrvp]

no one likes the q-bert.. hmmm I suppose i could sub that for a dedicated 4way, or maybe i could rig something that would allow a dedicated 4 way to rotate 45 degrees.

[hulkster]

hulkster,

[Ldsfunaz]

one last thing, spinner goes on the left or right? 

as of now this is third try, with correct parts now(mainly)

[markrvp]

Spinner on the right.  Use the trackball buttons with the spinner for Arkanoid & Tempest.  There is currently a project to make a topfire stick for the T-stick.  When that happens, use one of those on your player 4 stick to play games like Tron with the spinner.

[madk]

I hope it isn't too late!!!  I cannot let you leave your 3p and 4p sticks like that.  Build yourself a mockup and see for yourself how awkward they will be.  Those sticks need to match the angle of the buttons.  Trust me on this one.

[Ldsfunaz]

haha, no no its not too late.  but i think i am going to keep them like that for now.  Ive gotten so many mixed responces on this that i know i defiantly am going to have to mock it up so i can try it.  I already made a to size scale of the cp box and top made out of excess wallboard (still in the process of finishing basement, where this bad boy is gonna go)Its funny, I'm gonna have a 61 inch 1080p dlp tv, and I'm gonna spend all my time on this thing i just know it...

anyway  I think 2p smash tv is more important that a learning curve for 3p and 4p, that is why I am leaning towards this setup, no one i know has a cab that i could try it out on so i have to wait til i build this thing....

I would also like feedback on my button placements, are they high enough from the edges for comfort,

I have a 1 inch lip on sides and 45* angle, and a 1.5 inch lip on the front of the cab, is that enough?

thanks again everyone..

mike

[markb]

If your going to put the mouse buttons on the CP how about putting them directly above the top row of the Player 1 buttons?

[quarterstringer]

I would also like feedback on my button placements, are they high enough from the edges for comfort

This is another reason to try a mock up and test it out. I hated feeling the edge of the cp with my wrist and palm. So I have 6-1/2 inches of "wrist area" below the bottom row of buttons. It's much more comfortable.

[Franco]

I hope it isn't too late!!!

[Franco]

I would also like feedback on my button placements, are they high enough from the edges for comfort

This is another reason to try a mock up and test it out. I hated feeling the edge of the cp with my wrist and palm. So I have 6-1/2 inches of "wrist area" below the bottom row of buttons. It's much more comfortable.

Seconded again! (if thats a word!) Rotate the sticks and give yourself more wrist room and youll be rocking! 

[Franco]

Sorry about the tripple post,

Here's what I've learned from others...

I've read somewhere on these forums that you can use some code to make an 8 way "think" that it is in Q-Bert orientation as a 4 way, and then use the same code to turn it back into a regular "4 way".

[Ldsfunaz]

If your going to put the mouse buttons on the CP how about putting them directly above the top row of the Player 1 buttons?

i like the symmetrical look of having them in the middle, i don't think they will be in the way for golden tee or anything.  also i have them there  because of....

Spinner on the right. Use the trackball buttons with the spinner for Arkanoid & Tempest. There is currently a project to make a topfire stick for the T-stick. When that happens, use one of those on your player 4 stick to play games like Tron with the spinner.

[Scott84]

I made a mockup of a 4 player panel with  the angled joysticks...

I found it so wrong... not only did i find it difficult to control..

But my wrist started to hurt because of the angle i had to use the controller at from where i was standing.

[Ldsfunaz]

I made a mockup of a 4 player panel with

[Lilwolf]

and I thought this was mentioned before... but there aren't any 4 player games with more then 4 buttons each.  You should remove those. 

Something else to ask yourself.  What joysticks are you planning on using? If your going with a TStick top switchable, you will probably want to get the low end TStick for the other 3.   I know they are more expensive.  But what I've found with joysticks is that you really only complain when you have one to complain about (I was super happy with my happs ultimate until I got my supers and a comp).  Since the tsticks have such a small throw, if they are all the same I think you will be happier in the long run.

Also, about the angle of the 3 & 4 joystick.  If you can get them at 45% angles to the original you can use them for 2 player smashtv and total carnage.  This (imho) is really worth it.  GREAT games for 2 players

Last, are you going to keep and plan to use the trackball buttons?  They are in a spot that will make them really unusable with the trackball itself.  I would either remove them completely or put them somewhere as a 'utility' buttons.  And assume that you will use the player 1 or player 2 button.

 

[NoOne=NBA=]

Can you expand on that? I for one would like to know.

Q*Bert Keymapping

How to Rotate an 8-way by 45 Degrees Via Software

[Ldsfunaz]

Can you expand on that? I for one would like to know.

Q*Bert Keymapping

How to Rotate an 8-way by 45 Degrees Via Software

woah,   from the reviews this seems to work well.   this then means that i could angle my 3p and 4p sticks at a 45 * angle,    still play smash TV 2 player, and get rid of my dedicated qbert stick....

i guess i would replace it with a dedicated 4 way?

[NoOne=NBA=]

this then means that i could angle my 3p and 4p sticks at a 45 * angle,    still play smash TV 2 player

You COULD, but I would still make SURE you want to, before doing it.
Figure out which orientation you are likely to use the stick in most, and use the software rotation for as few games as possible.
The software rotation feels slightly different than the same stick without it, so I would personally leave the sticks unrotated to give the best feel in dual stick games.

If you run into someone that doesn't like the feel of the stick straight, you can use the software rotation, at that point, to turn it for them.

get rid of my dedicated qbert stick....

Yes.
Given the number of games that use it, having a dedicated stick is unnecessary for all but the most hardcore fanatics.

i guess i would replace it with a dedicated 4 way?

I personally would replace it with a second spinner.
That will let you play 2-P Blasteroids, along with alot of driving games.