CLOF - the official comprehensive list of frontends

[EndTwist]

I'd like to put together a system that allows users/frontend creators to add [their] frontend(s) to a list and update information about it if new versions are released. It's basically going to be a table of information, and you can click on each frontend to see more information (in-depth description, screenshots, feature list, etc) I have programming skill and web design skill, so creating it is no problem.

Update 6/22 - I've added other columns suggested by you guys

I would like some input on what to include in the system. Currently, I have these columns for the table:

Name - The name of the frontend.
Current Version - Latest version # of the frontend.
OS(es) Supported - What OSes are supported by it? (Linux, Windows 98, Windows 2000/XP, etc)
"Hides" OS? - Does it make it seem as if the operating system isn't there?
Orientation(s) - Which ways does it rotate? (Vertical, Horizontal, Both, etc)
Skinnable? - Can you make "skins" or "themes" for it?
Link to Frontend - Link to the website for the frontend (or direct download link if no site exists)
Actively Developed? - Is the frontend still being updated/has it been updated in the past year?
Arcade Monitor Support - Does it work nicely on an arcade monitor?
Control type(s) supported - What types of controls work with it? (Keyboard, Trackball/Spinner, JAMMA compatible, JAMMA+ compatible)
Built-in Screensaver - Does it have a built in screensaver?
Remappable Keys? - Can you remap the keys?

You will also have 2 columns for user-ratings:
Features - Out of 5 possible points. How many features does it have/how good are its features?
Ease-of-Setup - Out of 5 possible points. How easily is it setup initally?

So, what do you guys think? Any interest in this?

Also - if there is enough interest, would someone like to donate a domain (clof.org is available) for this site? I have hosting, only a domain would be needed.

[SpamMe]

I was in the middle of something like this No content, but I'm playing around with PMWiki with ok results so far: http://fe.upup.us, but since yours is the official one... 

[Howard_Casto]

Don't argue guys....  do it together.  I've always said, maintaining a accurate, full featured, constantly up to date list of fes would require a team of people.  You have two..... I estimate 2-3 more people should be enough.   

[EndTwist]

I was in the middle of something like this No content, but I'm playing around with PMWiki with ok results so far: http://fe.upup.us, but since yours is the official one... 

  I was just thinking that a system that allowed users to comment and rate the program might be a bit better than a wiki...  This way, other users can get an idea of how good/bad the program is. Plus, this would "standardize" the format of the information for each frontend. If you want to "join forces", I'd be happy to.

[Rocky]

How about adding a link to the website / software to the other information?

[youki]

The idea that a Front end creator maintains or be involved in this kind of site hurt me a little bit.

But That is a good idea to  build this kind of site.

[Buddabing]

You might add:

Ancillary requirements: DLLs, .NET framework, Direct X, graphics card, etc.

Is the front end open source?

Is the front end still under active development?

Link to frontend home page.

I like the idea of an average rating for ease of use and features. Users giving ratings should give any reasons for negative ratings.

I fooled around with a bunch of front ends this past weekend and the only one that would run on a Voodoo 3 was Atomic. Do you guys plan on exhaustively testing every single thing like that? If so, Howard is absolutely right, you need 2-3 more guys.

[PacManFan]

This sounds like an excellent idea. I think it will require the attention of quite a few people to keep this list accurate and up to date. Having it available to be edited to the public is a good idea. That way, users can post feedback about the FE's, thier likes ,dislikes, comments on usability, etc... They only drawback I see is the FE author "working over" thier own ratings, or worse yet, "poisening" other FE's ratings....

BTW,
   A new version of Kymaera is almost ready for release. I've gotten in (almost) every feature people have been asking for. At this point, I'm polishing it up and writing better docs/help.

-PMF

[EndTwist]

Thanks for the suggestions! I'll make sure I take them into consideration.

Also - would anyone like to step up and help out keeping this list maintained? It probably wouldn't need to be checked (make sure there are no dead links, update the version #s, remove "nasty" or "rude" comments) more than maybe 1-3 times a month, and with 3-4 guys, each person would only need to once per month.

The idea that a Front end creator maintains or be involved in this kind of site hurt me a little bit.

But That is a good idea to  build this kind of site.

Mind explaining why it "hurt you a little bit"? You would only need to update the version number of your frontend if you make an update. You could do it just when you get a chance (aka when you feel like it).

[youki]

As PacManFan said :

They only drawback I see is the FE author "working over" thier own ratings, or worse yet, "poisening" other FE's ratings....

I don't say you will do that!   It is just that usually when there is a kind of rating  , "competitors" are not activily involved in the organisation.

That's just my point of view.

[EndTwist]

As PacManFan said :

They only drawback I see is the FE author "working over" thier own ratings, or worse yet, "poisening" other FE's ratings....

I don't say you will do that!   It is just that usually when there is a kind of rating  , "competitors" are not activily involved in the organisation.

That's just my point of view.

I could care less who uses my frontends, what they think of them, or how well/badly it's rated. VertiWAH sucks eggs, and FiveCredits is very simple. I don't even promote my frontends actively (or passively ) as you do. In fact, I never even mention them. If people ask about VertiWAH, I tell them it sucks, and that they should only use it if they really want to. I only make frontends for practice and my own personal machine. I release them just because they might be of some use to someone else. I couldn't care less, though.

Do you still think I'm going to "work over" my own ratings?

[youki]

No, i don't think at all you will do that.  That 's just a general point of view, it is not specially for you.

And yes , i try to promote my Front End. Just because users motivate me.  and with feedbacks i can improve it and try to make it better and better.

More i have happy users more i'm happy.  if there are unhappy users i try to make them happy.    It is more motivating to have thousand  active users than to develop your frontend only for you on your machine? no?

And your FE doesn't sucks!     All FE are great i think. They answer to different needs. Sometimes some are better on certain point , others on others.  The perfect FE doesn't exist yet !

anyway, i'm out of subject here! sorry.  Goes for your CLOF! 

[Dire Radiant]

I don't see the rating system as useful. Everyone will just rate their favorite front end five stars or whatever. Nobody is going to bother rating the front ends they don't like. Even if they do it's not going to be at all objective. Personally I hate seeing windows-looking stuff on my cab so I'd rate something like GameEX fairly low. Someone new to the hobby may come along and see my rating and think GameEX is a bad FE when in fact it's great if you don't mind the windows look.

[EndTwist]

I don't see the rating system as useful. Everyone will just rate their favorite front end five stars or whatever. Nobody is going to bother rating the front ends they don't like. Even if they do it's not going to be at all objective. Personally I hate seeing windows-looking stuff on my cab so I'd rate something like GameEX fairly low. Someone new to the hobby may come along and see my rating and think GameEX is a bad FE when in fact it's great if you don't mind the windows look.

That's why you're not rating the frontend's themselves, but various aspects of the frontend. If it has few features or the features suck then the "Features Rating" will be low, and same for the "Ease-of-Setup" rating. Just because those are low doesn't mean the overall frontend is bad.

[Dire Radiant]

Ah I didn't realise we'd be rating each category. I thought that was just for information and the ratings would be overall. Much better this way. If anyone wants to look at an example of how much better this is go look at product reviews on musiciansfriend.com and compare them to the largely pointless amazon ratings.

BTW if you need any help with anything let me know. I think something like this has immense value and I'd be happy to offer any talents I have, meager though they may be.

[Chris]

If the system was developed flexibly enough, it could be used for jukeboxes, too...

[EndTwist]

Ah I didn't realise we'd be rating each category. I thought that was just for information and the ratings would be overall. Much better this way. If anyone wants to look at an example of how much better this is go look at product reviews on musiciansfriend.com and compare them to the largely pointless amazon ratings.

BTW if you need any help with anything let me know. I think something like this has immense value and I'd be happy to offer any talents I have, meager though they may be.

I might want to recruit you as part of the "maintenance team", if that's alright 

If the system was developed flexibly enough, it could be used for jukeboxes, too...

Since this system is simple to build, I could create a seperate section for that.

[Witchboard]

How about OS support as well?  No need for a Unix or DOS guy to weed through a dozen windows FEs.

[EndTwist]

How about OS support as well?  No need for a Unix or DOS guy to weed through a dozen windows FEs.

Doh! Thanks for reminding me. I meant to add that as part of the columns.

[Witchboard]

How about OS support as well?

[EndTwist]

Gah! Stop confusing me!

[youki]

I would add few colums.

ArcadeVGA Support : Yes / No
Fully Controllable from Arcade Panel : Yes / No
Control type supported : Keyboard,Joystick,Spiner,Trackball , Mouse
Home Made Keyboard Hack support : Yes/ No
JPAC / IPAC compliant: Yes / No
Buid-in ScreenSaver : Yes / No

I think these informations are usefull for ones want to build an arcade cabinet.

[EndTwist]

I would add few colums.

ArcadeVGA Support : Yes / No
Fully Controllable from Arcade Panel : Yes / No
Control type supported : Keyboard,Joystick,Spiner,Trackball , Mouse
Home Made Keyboard Hack support : Yes/ No
JPAC / IPAC compliant: Yes / No
Buid-in ScreenSaver : Yes / No

I think these informations are usefull for ones want to build an arcade cabinet.

Thanks for the suggestions.

I would add these instead though:
Arcade Monitor Support : Yes / No
Control type supported : Kbd Encoder, Joystick, Spiner/Trackball/Mouse
Built-in ScreenSaver : Yes / No

"Fully controllable from arcade panel" is useless since it doesn't tell you anything. "Home Made Keyboard Hack Support" and "I-PAC/J-PAC compliant" don't have much use because one is just a regular keyboard, and the other is just a keyboard encoder. Nothing special to support there.

[youki]

"Fully controllable from arcade panel" is useless since it doesn't tell you anything.

Yes , it tells you can access all Front End function from a Standard Arcade Control panel. (ex: 2 joy 3 buttons / player).  No need to wire additionnal button or to have a keyboard plugged.

"Home Made Keyboard Hack Support"

If your front end doesn't give you a way to configure keys , you can not say it support "Home Made Keyboard hack".  I have some user they have a totally crazy key mapping for their hack. Like "$" to go up , "g" to go down..etc..etc.. if your front end expect Up and Down Arrrow for scroll the list and if you can not change that, it won't work for some hack.

Why you don't add ArcadeVGA Support?  but instead you put Arcade Monitor support?

The fact to support and Arcade Monitor is not due to the FE. It is just a question of video card or drivers on configuration (PowerStrip , Arcmon.sys..etc..).

But the fact that the FE can run in Built-in ArcadeVGA special resolution (ex: 512x288) is something done by the FE.

[SirPoonga]

For control type I'd list JAMMA compatible, JAMMA+, trackball, keyboard.

Meaning the FE is compatible with a JAMMA setup (minus maintanence, just being able to use the FE).  This means the FE can be used with just a joystick, 3 button, coin and start.  Because many people are interested in an FE that works for their conversion cabinet.  Same with JAMMA

[M.A.M.E Power]

Great idea guys, this is just what is needed a comprehensive site which details each front end. Would be happy to offer my services if you need me  .

It might also be useful to document the resolutions that the front end supports as well as whether you can design your own skins?

Cheers

Lea

[Chris]

"Fully controllable from arcade panel" is useless since it doesn't tell you anything.

Yes , it tells you can access all Front End function from a Standard Arcade Control panel. (ex: 2 joy 3 buttons / player).

[Chris]

as well as whether you can design your own skins?

And this needs to be subdivided as to whether you can only change the look of some graphic elements, can reposition elements, or can decide which elements appear at all.

--Chris

[AlanS17]

Is there a sample site up?

[EndTwist]

I'm going to work on getting one up ASAP.

[Howard_Casto]

as well as whether you can design your own skins?

And this needs to be subdivided as to whether you can only change the look of some graphic elements, can reposition elements, or can decide which elements appear at all.

--Chris

There is only one level of skinnability imho but other authors disagree (mostly because their fe can't do full skinability)

All images must be changed, all elements must be reconfigurable (move, remove, resize, ect).  All forms of artwork must be supported (snap,titles, marquees,flyers,cabinets,cpos,ect).  Font's, font colors, font positioning ect must all be configurable.  "Lists" must be able to display any element, from a simple text-based list, to a row of title images.    Any fe that lacks any of these options isn't skinnable. 

My favorite example is arcadeFx.  Before it came out we were promised it was skinnable, after we got our hands on it, we found that the author's idea of "skinnable" was to be able to change the background image and font.  You couldn't really move around elements or anything.  That's partial skinnablitiy, not true skinnability. 



Also you've left out two important columns.  Filtered gamelists and multi emulator support. 

[Dire Radiant]

That's one way of looking at it but IMHO that isn't really "skinning" it's redesigning the interface. To me, skinning means changing the look of the existing interface. Semantics aside I'm all in favor of being able to change the interface as much as possible even though I usually stick to a pretty minimal setup with a game list and screenshot.

[Lilwolf]

ArcadeFX isn't really a good example.  When it came out... Nobody had anything skinnable... It was one of the most skinnable frontends (for maybe a week

heck, my frontend became skinnable so I could use his skins on my cab with my frontend. 

But no...  having your list doesn't mean its skinnable / not skinnable.... but pretty close (and I say that just because I don't like the cpo images so I never added it... But I can have all my buttons on the page light up based on the controls.dat + listinfo... so I say I'm still skinnable without cpo support...

as well as whether you can design your own skins?

And this needs to be subdivided as to whether you can only change the look of some graphic elements, can reposition elements, or can decide which elements appear at all.

--Chris

There is only one level of skinnability imho but other authors disagree (mostly because their fe can't do full skinability)

All images must be changed, all elements must be reconfigurable (move, remove, resize, ect).

[Howard_Casto]

ArcadeFX isn't really a good example.

[ericball]

I would love to see this come into existance RSN.  My problem has been / is finding a FE for my Tempest MAME cabinet.  i.e. vertical monitor and limitted controls.  Even a list of known FEs with links to their websites would be a great starting point.

However, some other comments.  I don't think that CLOF needs to be an end-all be-all list of FE features.  Things like "skinable" can have multiple shades of meaning.  These kind of unique capabilities are best handled in a free-form description rather than some kind of searchable checklist.

I also don't think that any kind of rating will work very well.  Perhaps a moderated comment section would satisfy the same purpose.