Author Topic: Topfire vs. Trigger...Need some opinions... (Read 6027 times)

conseit68 · « **on:** June 20, 2005, 08:23:39 pm »

Ok fellow BYOAC'ers...In a related thread in this forum many of you will notice that I am in the process of designing an "easy" shaft for the most commonly used joysticks with a topfire button. The idea is to get a shaft a ball/bat made...myself install the button...then the owner swap shafts. Sounds simple right, well I thought so also however, I seem to have a small debate going concerning topfire button or trigger fire button. My plan is to make the topfire first. But if there are people looking for the trigger fire and I don't feel that I am wasting my efforts on something that I wouldn't personally use, then I will come up with a way. I would also like for people that take this poll to let me know what joysticks they currently use and what people would be willing to pay (no smart remarks please) so I know if a machinist could make the quantities at a price people would be comfortable with. Thanks again.

Matt

NoOne=NBA= · « **Reply #1 on:** June 20, 2005, 08:40:26 pm »

Top fires in general are less effective than trigger fire sticks.

I would love to see a trigger fire shaft for Wico bases, similar to the Tron cocktail sticks.

I use a self-modified T-stik topfire, or Tron/Xenophobe trigger sticks.

largemann · « **Reply #2 on:** June 20, 2005, 08:42:41 pm »

Err, I accidentally voted topfire. Whoops

Pretend I voted trigger fire.

I'd be willing to pay $15-$20 for one compatible with a happ competition.

quarterback · « **Reply #3 on:** June 21, 2005, 01:43:50 am »

Quote from: NoOne=NBA= on June 20, 2005, 08:40:26 pm

I would love to see a trigger fire shaft for Wico bases, similar to the Tron cocktail sticks.

Me too, so I voted "trigger"

But I guess I can see where "bat joystick fans" would like a topfire, because (I guess) you grip a bat-shaped joystick differently than a ball-top.

quarterback · « **Reply #4 on:** June 21, 2005, 02:14:42 am »

BTW, you might want to rename this thread so people know what it's about. I ASSumed that it was about a CP layout since that's what most 'request for opinions' revolve around in this forum.

Just a thought

conseit68 · « **Reply #5 on:** June 21, 2005, 01:22:04 pm »

bump to get some more opinions...

Timoe · « **Reply #6 on:** June 21, 2005, 01:38:06 pm »

I'm looking for the best all around joystick. The magically elusive "everygame" stick. Well with the Happ 49way, GP Wiz 49 encoder, and floyds rotary adapter, I am almost there. If I could only incorporate a topfire in there, I would have everything.

I agree that a triggerfire would be better for accurate rapid fire shooting and more ergonomic for button presses than a topfire. My problem with the triggergrip s that, I cant also play other games with it. I wont want to play Donkey Kong with a big ol trigger grip, nor will I want to throw fireballs in Street Fighter II with a Tron Style trigger grip. But I could do all this stuff with a topfire. And if I wanted to play tron, the topfire would work pretty nice. my $0.02.

whammoed · « **Reply #7 on:** June 21, 2005, 03:43:42 pm »

Definitely trigger.

conseit68 · « **Reply #8 on:** June 21, 2005, 04:08:50 pm »

does anyone have a good close picture or measurements of the "front" side of that tron stick?...without that designing and producing is going to be nearly impossible.

thanks for all of the continued support...

quarterback · « **Reply #9 on:** June 21, 2005, 05:16:03 pm »

Quote from: conseit68 on June 21, 2005, 04:08:50 pm

does anyone have a good close picture or measurements of the "front" side of that tron stick?...without that designing and producing is going to be nearly impossible.

I'm not sure you're going to be able to completely reproduce the tron cocktail joystick without it being prohibitively expensive.

specfire · « **Reply #10 on:** June 21, 2005, 10:14:58 pm »

Ok, well I don't know how much my opinion counts because I am fairly new and at least a few months away from actually buying or building anything, but, that TRON cocktail stick is the coolest thing ever!! I have never seen one before but I am going to see if I can track one down to buy. Anyway, trigger fire is the best but I share timoe's worry about classic twitch games that are designed for an 8-way. That TRON cocktail stick design would solve that problem handily.

BTW, I told Floyd I would order one of his rotary adapters but haven't yet bought one. Do you think that it's OK if I wait a bit longer or should I buy one now because I did originally indicate an interest?

Timoe · « **Reply #11 on:** June 21, 2005, 11:09:42 pm »

You are correct, whammoed, I had never seen the Tron cocktail stick. That is very cool.

I'm still hoping for a topfire though. I can always get a Tron style 49way. And I plan on doing so at some point.

Specfire- I would inquire with fl0yd as to his current stock. He might not make them forever. You might want to get em while you can. ...at least that was my paranoid packrat thinking

shmokes · « **Reply #12 on:** June 21, 2005, 11:10:43 pm »

I would LOVE a cool looking top-fire or trigger fire. Ray-B made some custom ball-top sticks a while back with top-fire, but I missed out on it. I already have top-fires, so I'd just as soon have the shaft replace that....but it sounds like a top-fire shaft for the 49-way would truly make it a jack-of-all-trades. P360 would be cool too.

conseit68 · « **Reply #13 on:** June 22, 2005, 08:42:30 am »

ok update on the other post. machinist found...waiting for deminsions from markvp and drawings from franco so prototypes can be made. i still need a picture of the front of that tron stick to even have a shot at something "similiar". Quarterback is right in correcting me...once all of this happens the triggerfire will NOT be a replica, but something similiar in design. i am hoping RayB will chime in sometime with some assistance. thanks again all...it is coming along much faster than i first thought it would.

RayB · « **Reply #14 on:** June 22, 2005, 08:55:52 am »

Hi...?
<sound of chimes>

jcroach · « **Reply #15 on:** June 22, 2005, 09:08:50 am »

If anyone is interested, there are 4 Tron trigger fire cocktail joysticks on eBay right now.

conseit68 · « **Reply #16 on:** June 22, 2005, 10:40:17 am »

thank you jcroach...

i don't want one but thats the front picture i needed...one problem i see off the start is that I will not be able to reproduce that long trigger at a reasonable cost. what do people think of a microbutton simply mounted in the front?

RayB · « **Reply #17 on:** June 22, 2005, 10:54:08 am »

There's 2 threads on this going on. Should they be merged?

conseit68 · « **Reply #18 on:** June 22, 2005, 11:12:01 am »

i did this intentionally for the reason that this post is simply to get an idea of if people want top or trigger fire while the other is dedicated to the design portion and what joys people are using.

Katana Man · « **Reply #19 on:** June 22, 2005, 11:26:13 am »

I also voted for trigger fire.

markrvp · « **Reply #20 on:** June 22, 2005, 11:45:27 am »

Quote from: conseit68 on June 22, 2005, 10:40:17 am

thank you jcroach...

i don't want one but thats the front picture i needed...one problem i see off the start is that I will not be able to reproduce that long trigger at a reasonable cost. what do people think of a microbutton simply mounted in the front?

You know, that would probably work fine.

conseit68 · « **Reply #21 on:** June 22, 2005, 12:27:35 pm »

thats damn close to my thoughts also...

quarterback · « **Reply #22 on:** June 22, 2005, 12:52:24 pm »

I've been searching and searching for something more 'triggerlike', but haven't yet found anything.

conseit68 · « **Reply #23 on:** June 22, 2005, 12:59:20 pm »

the buttons i am currently thinking of have the option of no bezel...i am thinking that for construction ease though that a "hole" drilled into the handle for the button would be more simple than a square or slot. picture the balltop that "RayB" made but with the button in front...what do you think of that? how about without the bezel? what if it were a smaller button?...

markrvp · « **Reply #24 on:** June 22, 2005, 01:10:59 pm »

I like the no bezel idea. I don't think the button should be smaller. However, not sticking out very far is probably a good thing.

quarterback · « **Reply #25 on:** June 22, 2005, 01:45:01 pm »

Quote from: conseit68 on June 22, 2005, 12:59:20 pm

the buttons i am currently thinking of have the option of no bezel...i am thinking that for construction ease though that a "hole" drilled into the handle for the button would be more simple than a square or slot.

Yeah, the shape of my 'example' wasn't really a suggestion.

markrvp · « **Reply #26 on:** June 22, 2005, 02:08:42 pm »

Quote from: quarterback on June 22, 2005, 01:45:01 pm

Any other Wico owners out there want to grab their ball tops and give an opinion on this?

MUST . . . RESIST . . . URGE . . . TO . . . MAKE . . . SMART@$$ . . . REMARK!

RayB · « **Reply #27 on:** June 22, 2005, 02:16:03 pm »

A button on the FRONT of a ball top will not work unless you can devise a way to prevent the ball n shaft from rotating! Otherwise in the heat of gameplay, those suckers will rotate all over the place under the pressure of your finger press on the button. Even a little bit of "play" would be annoying. Keep this in mind.

Another side-note: The advantage of a bezel is that it can hide your workmanship! ;-) When I did mine, I had to dremel the hole larger, which created a slightly imperfect opening. The button bezel hides this imperfection (and also hides the hot glue I used to keep the button solidly in place).

Alternatives of course are to mount a button on the bottom of the shaft, and use a long rod to actuate the switch.

conseit68 · « **Reply #28 on:** June 22, 2005, 02:19:18 pm »

yes the general idea is to make the button as low profile as possible, wherever it is located. as to actual location of a trigger fire...please lets not get into that yet since i feel it may distract us from the primary design process. we could always start another thread...but i do understand your point of slighty below the "equator" line of a bat/ball top.

jlml · « **Reply #29 on:** June 22, 2005, 02:25:40 pm »

I recall playing with the Tron cocktail sticks some years back. They worked suprisingly well for my tastes, even though they don't LOOK like they would work. It'd be great to get a trigger into a standard joy.

markrvp · « **Reply #30 on:** June 22, 2005, 02:48:26 pm »

Quote from: jcroach on June 22, 2005, 09:08:50 am

If anyone is interested, there are 4 Tron trigger fire cocktail joysticks on eBay right now.

RayB · « **Reply #31 on:** June 22, 2005, 02:53:12 pm »

Please, not another thread

conseit68 · « **Reply #32 on:** June 22, 2005, 03:03:08 pm »

no no ...not another thread until these (2) get worked out for the most part.

markrvp - sounds good...just get me whatever you have as you get to each joy

thanks for the support all

quarterback · « **Reply #33 on:** June 22, 2005, 04:07:03 pm »

Quote from: RayB on June 22, 2005, 02:16:03 pm

A button on the FRONT of a ball top will not work unless you can devise a way to prevent the ball n shaft from rotating! Otherwise in the heat of gameplay, those suckers will rotate all over the place under the pressure of your finger press on the button. Even a little bit of "play" would be annoying. Keep this in mind.

I know you've thought about this since it was something you dealt with when doing your top-fires, but couldn't you drill a hole through the shaft, slip a long-ish thin rod through that hole (making it look kind of like a propeller underneath your cp) and then put little 'blocks' on either side of the joy, preventing the stick from spinning?

Here's a MS Paint mockup of what I'm talking about

conseit68 · « **Reply #34 on:** June 22, 2005, 04:20:37 pm »

still would have play and here is why...the blue block would have to have slots instead of holes in them in order for the joy to move forward and back. those slots would still allow the shaft to twist a small amount. keep thinking though...

quarterback · « **Reply #35 on:** June 22, 2005, 04:56:56 pm »

Quote from: conseit68 on June 22, 2005, 04:20:37 pm

still would have play and here is why...the blue block would have to have slots instead of holes in them in order for the joy to move forward and back. those slots would still allow the shaft to twist a small amount. keep thinking though...

I know if would be additional 'rigging' to prevent the spinning, but conceptually it seems like it would work without much trouble and even a couple wooden blocks tacked into my CP could work. And even a little 'play' wouldn't be too bad.

Or, you could just drill a hole though some wooden blocks and thread the rod all the way through

whammoed · « **Reply #36 on:** June 22, 2005, 05:18:06 pm »

I'm not convinced spinning will be a problem during game play anyway. Someone take a look at the cocktail tron stick and see how it is designed.
I would however be concerned with one of my toddlers continually twisting the joystick around continuously (for the heck of it...kids

) and eventually snapping the wires for the button.

markrvp · « **Reply #37 on:** June 22, 2005, 06:15:15 pm »

Here is a link to a possible solution:

http://1uparcade.robandmitsue.com/projects-trigstick.html

These are the current 1up Tron stick shafts for a 49-way and SUPER base based on the same principle

Oscar also had some nice examples, but his website is inaccessable from the home page right now.

conseit68 · « **Reply #38 on:** June 22, 2005, 06:20:28 pm »

that might work...i could "nub" the shafts. but that would mean people would have to "slot" the base and I am not sure people would want to do that. I know i wouldnt mind but some might and I would really like this to be a simple replacement.

RayB · « **Reply #39 on:** June 23, 2005, 07:43:35 pm »

Ideally the spin restriction should be at the pivot point (the point where the joystick tilts when moved). On a Wico, that would be the grommet.


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Topfire or Trigger fire Joysticks...

Author Topic: Topfire vs. Trigger...Need some opinions... (Read 6027 times)