Controls vs. Ambience/Authenticity poll inspired by another thread

[KenToad]

Hello,

  I'm writing the 49-way review with the interfaces, etc. for Retroblast right now and was inspired by another thread here to create this poll.  What I'm really trying to understand is who just gets nostalgic about the games and wants to recreate that by purchasing arcade controls and/or accessories that feel like they remember--and who wants the controls that will let them get the best scores and/or the best performance in a certain game or set of games. 

  I think this poll is valid, especially since there are so many new products on the market that were never used on the original arcade boxes.  I'm referring to products like the 49-way joysticks with RandyT's encoder enabling switchable modes and Buddabing's and others' LED project not just for the games that had blinky lights, but for every game either for instructional or coolness factor.

  My vote is for Option #2.  I want to do well in the games, especially the 80's classics and 90's fighters.  Setting up anything like an arcade in my house is definitely not a priority, although sometimes I like to see the old, nostalgic artwork from classic games at full size.

Cheers,
KenToad

*Edit* for clarity

[KenToad]

Come on now, click ... vote.  Now I see why we have such problems with turnout at elections.

Cheers,
KenToad

[SirPoonga]

Why not 1 and 2?
I have accurate controls for the games I play along with the bling to add to the experience.  Heck, I am adding a qbert knocker now.
This could be interesting.

[KenToad]

SirPoonga, thanks for the suggestion.  How about letting everyone vote twice?  Could you make the change as a global moderator--either my suggestion or yours?  I don't know how to do it, if it's possible on my end as a member.

Cheers,
KenToad

[KenToad]

More than 40 views and less than 15 votes--even the election turnout last year was better than this.  I need to take this poll to a third world country, where they take voting seriously.

Cheers,
KenToad

[SirPoonga]

SirPoonga, thanks for the suggestion.  How about letting everyone vote twice?  Could you make the change as a global moderator--either my suggestion or yours?  I don't know how to do it, if it's possible on my end as a member.

Cheers,
KenToad

not possible.
But I get your point, do you care or not care about the "experience".

[Setabs]

Can you clarify the second and third?

is accurate like the ball top control for galaga.
because how I remember would be the same.

ie.  using a competition joystick can get the job done playing pac-man but it is not how i remember pac-man nor an accurate control.

what i am saying is I play games because there fun.  I have a street fighter cp made out of cardboard so I can get a closer feel of how the games where originally played.  Its better than playing w/ a keyboard.  But its not an accurate set up for galaga.  But its still better than a keyboard.

[KenToad]

Can you clarify the second and third.

ie. using a competition joystick can get the job done playing pac-man but it is not how i remeber pac-man nor an accurate control

I understand the dilemma you present, especially since I've used my competition joys on Pac-Man with success, but I also wouldn't call it an "accurate control," since once in a while it would go the wrong way when I would hit a diagonal.  If you want a real 4-way for Pac-Man and the like, vote for #3.  If you really don't care about the "real" feeling and absolute perfection with the diagonal issue or you would consider getting a 49-way with RandyT's Digital Restrictor, although that isn't like the original physically restricted joy, vote for #2. 

I hope that clears it up. 

Maybe only few people vote because there are no ideal choices in life, always a trade-off or two.

Cheers,
KenToad

[SirPoonga]

you ean accurate as in having leaf buttons for games that used leaf versus micros for ones that had micros.

I don't think people will have both on.  The people who put leafs on are the ones that want their childhood experience and remember a couple of specific games they liked that had leafs.

Example, I prefer micros because I remember the clicks from when I was a kid.

[KenToad]

what i am saying is I play games because there fun.  I have a street fighter cp made out of cardboard so I can get a closer feel of how the games where originally played.  Its better than playing w/ a keyboard.  But its not an accurate set up for galaga.  But its still better than a keyboard.

Whoa, do you have a pic?  Did I miss that in Project Announcements?  I assume you mean the heavy duty cardboard?  I'm really interested, although obviously you couldn't play a pounding game like Track and Field.  It sounds to me like you could be #2 or #5.

Cheers,
KenToad

[KenToad]

you ean accurate as in having leaf buttons for games that used leaf versus micros for ones that had micros.

I don't think people will have both on.  The people who put leafs on are the ones that want their childhood experience and remember a couple of specific games they liked that had leafs.

Example, I prefer micros because I remember the clicks from when I was a kid.

I agree, SirPoonga.  I don't really remember the leaf switches.  I think I was too young to care.  Now that clicky SFII ... like a symphony to me before I admitted liking classical music.

My friends have no trouble taking the world records in Track and Field without the revered leaf switches ... no cheating, although one of my friends is a certified massage therapist and uses this "chop" technique until his hands hurt. 

Cheers,
KenToad

[BSR]

For me, the arcade experience is the most important thing but that includes more than blinking and ambient light.
I think you need to define what et cetera actually is. For me, it would include look, feel and sound. This in of itself would include accurate controls.

Authenticity for me would also mean not having keyboard drawers, external speakers, or a 14 inch PC monitor mounted inside a huge cabinet with controls for every game imaginable.

[ChadTower]

It's not a real arcade experience from my youth until a greasy dropout tries to sell me pot, pills, firecrackers, or ninja stars.

[KenToad]

For me, the arcade experience is the most important thing but that includes more than blinking and ambient light.
I think you need to define what et cetera actually is. For me, it would include look, feel and sound. This in of itself would include accurate controls.

Authenticity for me would also mean not having keyboard drawers, external speakers, or a 14 inch PC monitor mounted inside a huge cabinet with controls for every game imaginable.

What if those external things were hidden?  Arcade ambience is anything relating to the arcade as you remember the thing embodied.  I don't mean to cover all the bases.  Everybody has their own memories of what arcade means.  We had several here in town and most were quite different, i.e. bowling alley, candy store, pool hall, magazine/newspaper shop where you could pause for a moment in front of the stag/t.tty magazines and maybe get yelled at and of course the dedicated arcade with stained rug, tokens, etc.  Now, we have all those except the dedicated arcade, but they are not visited too frequently, at least not for the games. 

For me, just hearing the elephants in SFII is ambient and nostalgic, but for the purposes of this thread I boiled it down to: do I want to buy seperate and/or many original controls to play my favorite games or just one or two that satisfy my need to play these games and play them well.  That's really what I mean by accurate control vs. original or "real." 

I must go now.  Keep voting folks and post confusion if you have it.  Thanks to all who voted so far.

Cheers,
KenToad 

[KenToad]

It's not a real arcade experience from my youth until a greasy dropout tries to sell me pot, pills, firecrackers, or ninja stars.

Firecrackers and Ninja Stars, yes!!!!  I remember buying firecrackers on the street in Chinatown, NYC and a friend sold me a car antannae for fifty cents that he said was a Ninja weapon, since you could make it extend and poke someone in the eye.  My mom made me get my money back from that kid's grandparents, and then I had to apologize for sneaking into their house.  His little sister told on us.  They were a deranged family. 

See what you've made me remember, Chad.

Cheers,
KenToad

[RayB]

What's the difference between #2 and #3? TO me they are the same.

[missioncontrol]

how about all of the above.........

or at least 1 and 5

or 1  4  and 5

or aw never mind just all of the above.....

[ChadTower]

What's the difference between #2 and #3? TO me they are the same.

If they felt like I remember, they'd be loose/broken and you'd end your turn quicker because of them.

[armax]

Why not 1 and 2?
I have accurate controls for the games I play along with the bling to add to the experience.

[SirPoonga]

Authenticity for me would also mean not having keyboard drawers, external speakers, or a 14 inch PC monitor mounted inside a huge cabinet with controls for every game imaginable.

Same here, even though I have a PC monitor.  That will change to a 25" arcade monitor sometime.  Have to go with what is affordable at the time   That's why I say a cabinet is never done.  There's always new products to enhance the experience.

[RandyT]

I think the reason for the low numbers has something to do with feeling like you aren't sure you answered the way you wanted to afterwards.  Kind of like the 2004 elections.

Most likely it's because none of those things are mutually exclusive.  Bling is nice, so you take it where it's practical.  Good controls are important too, but without the "frankepanel" you'll always find something that could use a better control.  Original controls are also nice, if you can find one that isn't beaten to crap and doesn't cost the proverbial "arm and leg".

I guess it's like the question: "What would you rather have in an Automobile?  Safety, Economy or Comfort"  The answer will almost always be "Yes"

RandyT

[Zero_Hour]

Ultimately Authenticity must mean something to me. Looking over my parts list:

Tron Stick and Spinner
2 SNK LS-30's
Happ 3" Trackball (and I actually did consider getting a 2 1/4" one also for centipede - but that seemed to be overdoing it)
I want to eventually pick up some Wico Leafs, but went with P360's as they seem well revcieved, and won't click like microswitch sticks.
Also have some GGG top fires.

Authenticity also shows up in the design I'm planning to use - Obviously that's one frankenpanel I have going for me there, except that I plan on trying to have a go at duplicating (mostly anyway) Frostilicus's rotating CP, so as to reduce the clutter, and look more like the originals. I will definitely take the time to do custom artwork, backlighting, and hopefully score some volcano buttons for the finishing touch.

My goal is a cab that the average person would look at and think it's an authentic cab (why else put a coin door on a home machine?), and hopefully play like one too.

If I was only concerned about the control aspect, I would just build a CP.

/ramble

[KenToad]

Yeah, all you "I can't decide" people must decide.  Not choosing is not the same as choosing everything.   

And you have to admit.  Everyone must prioritize at some point.  If you're rich, imagine you're poor.  What would you want first?  What would you want last?

Cheers,
KenToad

[KenToad]

RandyT, I would have thought that you would be a #2 voter, given your product line.  I guess that's the gamer separated from the businessman.  Of course, I'm speculating.  I don't know who voted for what.

Cheers,
KenToad

[KenToad]

Oh, and all you people over on the Shawnzilla's thread, I'll just write you down as #1 voters.  OK?

Cheers,
KenToad

[NoOne=NBA=]

I'm in the #1 & 2 crowd.

I set my controls up on my modular panel the way I think the games SHOULD have been in the arcade, but overall ambiance is a factor to me as well.

There's no quicker way to ruin the ambiance for me that to let me have a go at a frankenpanel.

[RandyT]

RandyT, I would have thought that you would be a #2 voter, given your product line.  I guess that's the gamer separated from the businessman.  Of course, I'm speculating.  I don't know who voted for what.

And what, may I ask, makes you think that I didn't vote for #2?

Practicality is important.  A control panel that offers poor control, is...well...not a very good control panel.  Blinky lights won't fix this problem either.

Frankenpanels, or modular "original" controls will probably offer the most authenticity.  Authenticity still doesn't guarantee the best control, but at least you can count on not being hindered by some sub-standard control not taken into consideration by the game designers.  These panels tend to be the largest and/or most complicated and expensive to create.

So, it's all about the "tradeoff", but IMHO, practicality should be given the highest consideration.  Of course, even that will vary depending on who you ask.

RandyT

[Setabs]

Whoa, do you have a pic?  Did I miss that in Project Announcements?  I assume you mean the heavy duty cardboard?  I'm really interested, although obviously you couldn't play a pounding game like Track and Field.  It sounds to me like you could be #2 or #5.

Cheers,
KenToad

sorry no pics. I had it in project announcement like a year or more ago.

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,11965.0.html

I ended up testing it w/ cardboard and kept it because I could set it in my lap since it was so light.

The cardboard is just big sheets that I cut up to size.

3 sheets = about 3/4"
 I recently through it away after I made the smallest one possible about 9"x 5"
I am testing out different sizes to try and get the smallest yet most comfortable one.  I want to try and make one out of fiberglass.  But that will be alot of trial and error.

[SirPoonga]

Practicality is important.  A control panel that offers poor control, is...well...not a very good control panel.  Blinky lights won't fix this problem either.

So, it's all about the "tradeoff", but IMHO, practicality should be given the highest consideration.  Of course, even that will vary depending on who you ask.

Right, just look at my cabinet, right now it's all about practicallity.  It needs work though, like artwork and such to give it more of the arcade feel

It's a ying yang thing.  One can not live without the other if one is to achieve the goal of feeling like you are at an arcade machine

If it were only about the controls and practicallity we all would be making desktop controllers, not a complete cabinet.

[grueinthebox]

Since we're discussing multi-game cabs here, I guess I'm going to go with 5...  My MAME(tm) compatible cabinet is a candy cab, so while it has USB to connect the authentic controls for console systems, it's not what I would consider "authentic" for any older games (even if I add a switchable 4/8 way for Pac-Man and such).

For my favorites that I REALLY want authenticity on, I'll get the real thing.  Right now I'm trying to start with those games that have "different" controls - current projects include a Hang-On and a Satan's Hollow, for example.  No MAME(tm) compatible cabinet will be able to feel "authentic" to me, unless it's designed as an exact replica of the original (no more, no less), and just happens to run MAME(tm) instead of a PCB.

[jcroach]

It's not a real arcade experience from my youth until a greasy dropout tries to sell me pot, pills, firecrackers, or ninja stars.

   Yes!  Oh man, how I loved nija stars when I was 12!

[Avery]

No MAME(tm) compatible cabinet will be able to feel "authentic" to me, unless it's designed as an exact replica of the original (no more, no less), and just happens to run MAME(tm) instead of a PCB.

This is what drove me towards the idea of a modular control panel.  I've pretty much got the controls to replicate 95% of what's out there.  (I'll let you all know when I've hacked a CAT5 to make a USB compatable bicycle for Propcycle.)

Of course some people feel that modulars lack authenticity because they don't have any CP art.

[SirPoonga]

Of course some people feel that modulars lack authenticity because they don't have any CP art.

But I don;t see any reason one couldn;t design modular art   MC Escher could do it....