TOKN KB32 Testing

[jjd]

I have completed the preliminary testing on the TOKN KB32 keyboard encoder in order to confirm/supplement the testing that was done on the 16 input version (KB16).

1) Keyboard passthrough:  When the unit is connected, both the CP and the keyboard are recognized by the computer.  You can type with the keyboard.  You can't type well with the keyboard, but it does send signals to the computer.  I tried to type this review last night through the keyboard passthrough, but after about 10 minutes of typing gibberish I gave up.  Maybe 4 out of 5 keypresses were recognized and some keys (the period in particular) were not usable.   Either nothing happened when the key was pressed or the key acted as though the shift key were pressed.  While the keyboard passthrough is a nice feature, at least with the keyboard I was using it did not work well enough to make it a functional feature.

2) LED and programming.  Yep the LED lights up and you can reprogram the unit using the instructions from the TOKN website.  They aren't clear, but they do the trick.

3) Keyboard encoder.  The KB32 appears to be 2 KB16s put together on one board.  There are 3 32 pin connectors running parallel to each other.  The default setup has one set as the player 1 controls and the 2nd set as the player 2 controls.   

I tested one fully connected set of controls hooked first to the player 1 pin bank and then to the player 2 pin bank. The connections were made exactly as shown on the TOKN documentation.  The results were very, very disappointing.

The CP I used for testing had one 8 way joystick with 6 action buttons, 1P start, 1 coin, and 3 admin buttons (I did not reprogram these and left them set up as buttons 7,8, and 9?? per the default).

I tested the KB32 using Ghostkey.  All inputs generated the proper signal to the computer when used one at a time.  All inputs also worked properly when 2 inputs were used in tandem.  When any combination of 3 or more inputs were used, additional input signals were sent to the computer in a very consistent and predictable manner. 

One shining example was when the joystick was moved up and right, and buttons 1 and 2 were pressed, the encoder sent all of those signals plus an extra down and left signal.  While play testing the encoder in a fighting game, this particular ghosting made the game nearly unplayable. 

Ghosting is a major issue any time more than 2 inputs are entered at the same time.  These results match those that Tiger-Heli reported almost identically. 

While Tiger-Heli's suggestions for rearranging the inputs may be helpful, the functionality of this unit is not up to par for more than simple one or two button games. 

I have not had a chance to connect a full 2nd set of inputs, but I can only imagine what the results will be.  My plan is to test the full 2nd set, but I am leaving for vacation tomorrow and will not have time to complete the test. 

I will be requesting a full refund from TOKN media  as the product sold to me does not function as advertised (2 of 3 major functions).  I wonder if it was even tested prior to sale?

[pointdablame]

Yikes... I can appreciate the fact that both you and Tiger got it "working" and there seems to be some workarounds to get it to function properly... but damn..... I'm staying farrrrr away from these things, especially at their price point.

Why would you go through this trouble when you can get a KeyWiz for essentially the same price...... very disappointing.

[Hoopz]

Odds of getting your money back?  25%?

I really hope you do.  And I am still interested to see if Mattp is going to respond to any of the threads regarding his product(s).

[pointdablame]

And I am still interested to see if Mattp is going to respond to any of the threads regarding his product(s).

haha.  Good one

[jjd]

Odds of getting your money back?  25%?

I really hope you do.  And I am still interested to see if Mattp is going to respond to any of the threads regarding his product(s).

Actually, Mattp has agreed to a full refund.  I have been very impressed  with the customer service from TOKN and wish them all the luck in getting the bugs worked out of thier product. 

I'm sure it will be an uphilll battle for them, but I think they will eventually put together a working and tested model of the KB16 and/or 32. 

The KB32 or 16 both seem to be functional for smaller scale applications.  Unfortunately for me I am building a 30 input CP on which I would like to play more than the one or two button classics. 

[Hoopz]

Actually, Mattp has agreed to a full refund.

That is good news and I hope you get it soon.

[KevSteele]

Well, that's two confirmations of problems with this encoder - as soon as I get another unit to verify things myself, I'll update my review.

I've been thinking about my initial testing, and why I didn't see the same things with my five button setup. I'm trying to figure out where I might have screwed up, and it may very well have been that I didn't do a full "5-button" test - I did a five button "smash" and the buttons rapidly in sequence, but now that I think about it I may not have held down all five buttons and verified that there were no ghost keys.

(I reviewed the "paper tape" after playing with the buttons to check for ghost inputs, but never verified that there wasn't ghosting while holding down 5 buttons at the same time.)

Whatever it was, it's becoming very obvious that I probably screwed up the testing of this encoder.    Hopefully I can fix that soon.

Kevin

[Tiger-Heli]

jjd - thanks for confirming this.  Interestingly, other than sluggishness, I didn't experience any of the pass-thru problems you mentioned.  Maybe different keyboards respond differently to it.  I was thinking about the KB32 last night and came up with this: (might help other users, or if you want to test it)

KB32 SPECULATION:  I don

[Tiger-Heli]

jjd - Do you still have the KB32 - If so, could you (or someone else with one) post what the default input labels are for both sets of inputs.

For example - on the KB16, they are:
Joy UP
Joy Down
Joy Left
Joy Right
Button 1
Button 2
Button 3
Button 4
Button 5
Button 6
Button 7
Button 8
1P Start
2P Start
Coin 1
Escape

I assumed the KB32 used these and then repeated them with the understanding that the "other" set was for player 2, but two sets of Escape and 1P Start buttons seems odd?

Thanks again for your help with this!

[jjd]

I'm actually on vacation, so I do't have access to the unit.  But I do remember that the labels on the P-2 side were slightly different after button 8.  There was a button 9, but I'm not certain of the rest. 

I'll post more when I get home in another week.

[Tiger-Heli]

I'm actually on vacation, so I do't have access to the unit.  But I do remember that the labels on the P-2 side were slightly different after button 8.  There was a button 9, but I'm not certain of the rest. 

I'll post more when I get home in another week.

Thanks!

[monkeybomb]

I'm all for testing but If the KB16 doesn't work, how could the KB32?  Is there even a possibility if it uses the same method and matrix?

[Tiger-Heli]

I'm all for testing but If the KB16 doesn't work, how could the KB32?  Is there even a possibility if it uses the same method and matrix?

Jjd said it doesn't work - well at least not as advertised.  It has some advantages over the KB16 (but it doesn't even compare with a KeyWiz Eco), but I want to know how the inputs are labelled so I can make some educated guesses to help any IMHO poor souls who were unfortunate enough to buy one.

[richms]

At least with it ghosting, you can solve it with diodes, whereas the keyboard hack with the blocking in it to prevent ghost keys will not allow you to fix it with diodes.

I think my major issue this gear is with his handling of the acusations and outrigth lying about the product. If it just shipped with 16 diodes and said connect these inline with one wire of the switch for correct operation, I doubt anyone would really have posted anything negative about the encoder.

[Tiger-Heli]

At least with it ghosting, you can solve it with diodes, whereas the keyboard hack with the blocking in it to prevent ghost keys will not allow you to fix it with diodes.

True.

It's kindof a double-edged sword, though.

Without diodes, the KB32 allows 16 inputs without ghosting, and 16 other inputs that will ghost.  With a keyboard hack, you can (usually) find 16 non-ghosting inputs, and the remaining 88 keys will be available for admin function.  And the blocking actually helps you here, because you don't have to worry about a keycode accidentally activating Escape.

I think my major issue this gear is with his handling of the acusations and outrigth lying about the product. If it just shipped with 16 diodes and said connect these inline with one wire of the switch for correct operation, I doubt anyone would really have posted anything negative about the encoder.

Well - even if it shipped with diodes, it's still a less functional unit than the KeyWiz Eco or the I-PAC VE, for a similar to higher price point.  But I agree, the deceptive (to say the least) marketing of the product is its biggest drawback, IMHO.

[jjd]

I finally got home.

The KB32 has only one set of control labels silkscreened on the Player 2 side.  There is no labelling on the 1 player side.

They are:
Up
Down
Left
Right
Buttons 1 - 9
Start
Control
Escape.

[Tiger-Heli]

I finally got home.

The KB32 has only one set of control labels silkscreened on the Player 2 side.  There is no labelling on the 1 player side.

They are:
Up
Down
Left
Right
Buttons 1 - 9
Start
Control
Escape.

Thanks for checking.  Yikes - NO labeling on the P1 side.  I hate to keep bugging you but could you test and reply back with the default assignments for both the P1 and P2 inputs???